Talk:Frederick Delius/Archive 1

Gershwinesque?

I'm not sure it's appropriate to characterize the Piano Concerto as "Gershwinesque," since Delius' work was completed decades before Gershwin's and thus Gershwin could hardly have been an influence . . . I understand the point, but it is misleadingly phrased. cantseetheforest 18 September 2008 —Preceding undated comment was added at 00:20, 19 September 2008 (UTC).

Delius' Love Child

I have added a "citation needed" to the story of Delius's Florida affair and the child that was the fruit of it. I have read quite a bit on Delius, and I have never come across this before. It's not in itself inherently unbelievable but it's source needs to be identified.Meb53 23:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Parents sending children to Florida orange groves

Was there a fad for doing this in the 1880s as the actor Tyrone Power, Sr. was also sent from England to Florida to work in the citrus groves around the same time as Delius? Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 22:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Musical Uniqueness

Delius's musical style is one of the most unusual in Western musical history.

I know the phrase in the article has just been changed from unique to unusual. However both sound wrong to me; I think the problem might be more with 'one of the most' rather than the word that follows... Nick Watts 10:31, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed that it does sound unencyclopaedic. How should it be said, though? It remains an important point to mention somehow, because the distinctiveness of his music is not especially contested and has much to do with why he is a noteworthy composer. --209.6.158.78 06:41, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I have changed this to "Delius's musical style is unusual in Western music." This seems to escape the clumsiness that is bothering readers. Maybe this is too spare though? As an aside I have also deleted the link from Life's Dances as it is dead. hypotaxis (talk) 05:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Deleting referenced material

User:Rothorpe, Please note, the information given in that paragraph about the 'religion', etc, including the horoscope information which you observe in an edit summary needs a reference, is contained in the Beecham reference given at the end of the paragraph. There is, of course, very much more also about his 'religion' in the books by Warlock and Fenby, both of whom knew him pretty well in their way - as you could easily verify, no doubt. Cheers, Dr Steven Plunkett 00:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The reference is in Beecham, p61 (all editions), start of chapter 8 'in the Salons of the Faubourg St Germain..':

"he speedily became a success in these lofty circles, especially with the feminine portion of them: less on account of his music or even his agreeable personality, than his professed leanings towards occultism. His speciality was the somewhat esoteric craft of astrology, and his gift as a maker of horoscopes was in great demand among those who did not shrink from giving approximately truthful accounts of their days and hours of birth.. A keen admirer of his proficiency was Calvé...
other diversions of this time were alchemy and metallurgy, into the mysteries of which he was inducted by August Strindberg., etc etc..."

I appreciate that this passage is charged with the typical Beecham irony, implying that Delius was only interested in the women, but there it stands. Like several Carmens, Calvé was a believer. There is much more interesting stuff about his inner nature in Warlock and Fenby. Dr Steven Plunkett 00:35, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Cheating on Jelka?

The article states that Delius married Jelka. It also states that he died of syphilis. However, it omits any possibility of an indirect connection.

If Delius cheated on Jelka with a young prostitute living near them, as I have heard, and as would have been consistent with his long-time history of similar behavior, this would be an important fact that should be included. The only problem is finding an authoritative reference, given the natural inclination to omit such a fact from biographies of such a talented and admired composer.

answers.com states that he was diagnosed with syphilis 8 years before he married Jelka, but I'm not sure how long Jelka and Delius lived together near Paris before they married. this blog, which is not an authoritative source, states that Delius contracted syphilis from a prostitute "when a young man". This transcription of a lecture on Delius says, "It is rumored that he contracted syphilis from Gauguin’s Javanese mistress, whom he shared..." This would have been just before or around the time Delius first met Jelka Rosen in Paris.

Did all of his visits to prostitutes end when he was diagnosed, and when he and Jelka moved in together? None of these references indicate either way. Could he have cheated with a prostitute, or with his old flame Ida Gerhardi while living or even married to Jelka? It seems impossible to say for sure. I reach a dead end in terms of online references. David spector (talk) 22:37, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

And, since I'm speculating so much without others either correcting or corroborating, I'll add a bit more: there seems to be a kind of whitewash going on here and elsewhere, in which the less than exemplary side of Delius' behavior (which Jelka endured with such devotion) is dismissed, as by the phrase, "As a young man he had caught syphilis,"--as though this were the same as catching a cold! Granted, the man was a famous composer, and granted, more famous composers than he undoubtedly contracted STDs through their own extramarital interludes, but shouldn't an encyclopedia include the entire truth insofar as we can trace it down, rather than pretend that our cultural icons are stainless, or to act as though their personal lives were irrelevant to their creative lives? It is improper for an encyclopedia to make either assumption. David Spector (talk) 12:33, 22 September 2010 (UTC)