Talk:Flag of Bhutan/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Lemurbaby (talk) 06:19, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): ; b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

✓ Pass*In the First National Flag section, the flag is alternately described as embroidered and painted. Please clarify.

✓ Pass*The readability of the First National Flag section would be improved by splitting the information into a Design sub-section and a Historical context sub-section (or something similar). This would better justify the level of detail used in describing the event of the treaty signing (see the issue cited below).

• What year was the manuscript cited in the 1952 Flag section written?

✓ Pass*This part of the 1952 Flag section will be unclear to the majority of readers who are less well-versed in Buddhism and Bhutan: "The Druk Gyalpo is deemed to be the summit and root of the Drupka Kagyu of Palden Drukpa. As the Druk Gyalpo wears a yellow robe, the yellow symbolises the Druk Gyalpo." Please reword for greater mass accessibility.

✓ Pass*The readability of the article would be greatly improved by restructuring slightly. Right now, for instance, the symbolism of the flag is lost in the text. Please consider something like the following format: 1. Origins 2. Contemporary flag of Bhutan 2.1 Design 2.2 Symbolism 3. Historical evolution 3.1 1949 3.2 1956 3.3 Later modifications 4. Flag protocol Refer to Flag of Germany as an example of a flag article with featured article status quality for comparison.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): ; b (citations to reliable sources): ; c (No original research):

✓ Pass*Need a citation for the year or circumstances when the Chinese may have introduced the druk into Bhutan and the exact years that the size was changed to match the Indian flag and the background color was changed to orange.

✓ Pass*Please change all in-text website links to references using the citeweb template.

✓ Pass*The manual of style dictates that the lead should be reference-free, so I moved the reference regarding Mayum Choying Wangmo Dorji to the discussion about the first national flag; however, it is unclear from the text whether this person designed the first national flag or some later version (i.e. the current one). Please clarify and ensure this citation is placed appropriately in the body of the text.

✓ Pass*At various points, the text refers to diverse documents subsumed within one citation (bhutanstudies). It would be preferable to return to the bhutanstudies document and identify the actual citations for the specific documents cited within it, and incorporate those original citations into this text where appropriate. Example - Second paragraph of the 1952 Flag section.

✓ Pass*It would also be preferable to find additional sources. If you need help with this, I may be able to find some for you.

✓ PassReference 16 (flag code of India) does not appear to link to information about changes to Bhutanese flag dimensions on the basis of Indian flag fluttering.

2. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): ; b (focused):

✓ PassPlease identify the state events, holidays and other occasions considered "flag days" dictating when and how the flag must be hoisted. Add this to a more detailed discussion of flag protocol at the end.

✓ PassThe repeated references to the CBS document imply that it is of some greater authority than the average reference (i.e. it is the only "officially accepted" document, or something like that). But since this is not emphasized in the text, the way that the document is highlighted feels misplaced. Either justify the emphasis on this document or find ways to discuss its contents without drawing attention to the source. Revise the second-to-last paragraph in the First National Flag section.

• • There's a good reason that the CBS document is heavily referenced: it is essentially the only reference for the history of the early flags, except for the black and white photos. It's an important work and has had good exposure in the Bhutanese press. It should be highlighted as our primary source. -- Elphion (talk) 22:00, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

• • There is one "flag day" that is mentioned in law (December 17th). I went ahead and added it to the article. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 00:05, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

2. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

3. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

4. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): ; b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

5. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Discussion

• I will be reviewing this in pieces over the next few days. Thanks for your patience. Lemurbaby (talk) 06:25, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

• After an initial reading of the article, I am putting the review on hold to leave time for revisions to be made. Lemurbaby (talk) 16:35, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

According to different texts I found, there are no official flag days inside of Bhutan. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 19:13, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

• There has been some good progress made on this article since last week but some of my suggestions have yet to be addressed. We should discuss them if you disagree that they are useful or feasible ways of strengthening the article. I would still like to see the symbolism section expanded. In just a cursory overview of the literature out there I found several elements of symbolism in the colors that have not been included or cited here, and that would help to expand the reference section. -- Lemurbaby (talk) 18:17, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

• What I would suggest is maybe cross off the things that we completed or let us know what exactly we still need to do for this article. However, with the other color format that you have found for the Bhutan flag, what was your source for it? User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 18:44, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

• I can't find anything about the chinese bringing the dragon to Bhutan. Spongie555 (talk) 20:42, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

• I cannot find the year, but what I have seen on Google Books snippets is because of Bhutan's close relationship with China (and before 1912 used a dragon on their royal flags), the Bhutanese royality chose the dragon as their symbol of royality. I seen the snippet in Smith's 1970's book (I have the book, but only in Japanese). I can probably get the citation for it, but still does not give me a year. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 20:52, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

• Congratulations and thank you to all of you who put in so much time and effort to raise the quality of this article. It's clear that the lack of reliable, detailed sources has limited how much can be stated here with certainty but I think what we have here is authoritative and comprehensive in light of those restrictions. I don't think we could squeak this by to FA without being absolutely certain we've exhausted other sources. A trip to the Library of Congress, input from credible Bhutanese authorities or other such sources of additional information would be needed before this article could make it to FA. Let's keep our eyes peeled for new sources and continue to add and improve as we can. As it stands I am happy to award the article GA status. Happy New Year! -- Lemurbaby (talk) 19:59, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
  • Champagne for everyone! User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 20:50, 31 December 2010 (UTC)