Talk:Final Fantasy XII/Archive 5

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Featured Article push

Hi everyone; this article is really coming together. Think we can set a goal to get it to FAC by April 1? I'll help out when I can. — Deckiller 03:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC) Few things to consider:

• • Lead — it may need to be compressed into three or four paragraphs, but that's a simple fix.
  • Gameplay section — this section looks like it has too much information in it. For example, subsections for loot and hunts are not really necessary; they can be explained in one paragraph each. I'm not sure that elaborate examples are allowed, as I've seen them cited as original research and text that cannot be attributed to a reliable source. I have the strategy guide for this game, so I can take care of the referencing for this section. Consolidation should not be a major issue as well.
  • Plot and setting section — kudos to everyone for the excellent consolidation here. The main things I see are some prose redundancies and words that should be avoided ("utilized", "in order [to]"), and a need for a paragraph or two on the creation of the characters for the game. That should not be difficult to find. The length of the synopsis is perfect.
  • Development section — it's already quite good, and seems to cover the appropriate topics in an appropriate length. There is an overlinking problem, and two stubby paragraphs.
  • Audio section — looks pretty good; it's succinct and covers the major aspects well. Some more redundancy issues ("a vast majority of" should be "most", for example). A summary of the other albums (1-2 sentences) might be a good way to flesh the section out.
  • Recpetion and criticism section — so far, it looks like it's off to a solid start. There are some one or two sentence paragraphs, which should be integrated into the rest of the section. The awards list should probably be turned into a paragraph of prose. The legacy minisection can probably be transferred to the lead.
  • Merchandise section — very nice; again, just some minor organizational and prose issues. I also see a paragraph with few cites.
  • See also section — there are usually good to have; perhaps we can find something not linked but related to put into a see also section?

I think we have the beginnings of a gem here. — Deckiller 03:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Lead

I noticed some issues with the lead when compared to the FF Featured articles:

• • The last paragraph, which explains the cosplay event and the hacked information, does not really need to be in the lead; it can be copy and pasted to the development or reception section.
  • The brief synopsis is fine as the middle paragraph; a new third paragraph explaining the major gameplay changes and the game's reception (currently summarized as a sentence in the opening para) is a good move.
  • In other words, the first para is the general overview as it pretty much is right now, the second para is the brief summary of the story, and the third is a summary of the game's changes and unique features, as well as the game's reception.

— Deckiller 04:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The development section, you mention has two stubby paragraphs? Could it be the second and the last? I think the second could be moved to Settings, under Characters. 私はBluerです 05:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that character info belongs in the character section. — Deckiller 14:41, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I feel like this is important. Thus, I'm temporarily taking myself out of wiki-break to see this through. I'll do a thorough copy-edit later tonight and start working on your points above throughout the week. Axem Titanium 22:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Great; glad to see you back. There also seems to be another FA push in the works on Final Fantasy XI, so it's looking good :) This is a good break from the gameplay articles. — Deckiller 03:08, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Deleted "Final Fantasy XII was an extremely amazing game" for obvious reasons. It was in it's own paragraph, so it was probably a troll. - Jickler (talk) 21:17, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Gameplay

I just finished my copyedit of the gameplay section. Of note, I removed the stuff about hunts, the different schools of magic and the random treasure chests because I felt they were too detailed and were nonessential gameplay elements. Also, I rearranged some stuff so it would be more logical, although I don't feel like it's perfect yet. More citations would be nice too, so Deckiller, if you could help out a little with some of that? I can only cite reviews that discuss gameplay but I don't have the guide. Axem Titanium 01:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Nice work. I feel the gameplay section may still be too long, so I'm going to give it another trim and see what else can be removed. I should have the sourcing for the section done tonight; I've put most of it on hold until the section is fully consolidated. — Deckiller 01:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I think we're at a decent length, unless there's any objections. I'll start sourcing. — Deckiller 02:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

It looks good. Go for it. I'll copyedit Development tomorrow. Axem Titanium 02:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Awards

I'm going to attempt the Awards section. Bluerです。 ^なにか? 13:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks good; we need to get sources for those sentences with fact tags though. — Deckiller 00:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Update

Lead and Gameplay are done; Setting, Characters, and Plot are almost done. — Deckiller 00:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Audio

Just finished that, Deck has already had a preliminary look at it. Any other comments? Axem Titanium 04:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Development

I still need to add stuff about delays and artistic design but can anyone think of other stuff? Axem Titanium 04:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, there is other stuff, that I am unsure of. Most of the designers were actually veterans of the FF series and the FFT series as well as Vagrant Story. Yoshitaka Amano contributed to the image illustrations as with the previous games starting with FFVII and also the title logo designs. The art directors were Hideo Minaba and Isamu Kamikokuryo. Yoichi Wada served as executive producer with Kawazu. Kazutoyo Maehiro designed the battle systems. I am not sure if there are many designers. Two of the voice actors for the Japanese version did motion capture, that being Kouhei Takeda and Yuna Mikuni. --Sjones23 19:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

In the FFXII Collector's Edition bonus DVD, there are interviews with directors Hiroyuki Itō, scenario writer Daisuke Watanabe, English translators Alexander O. Smith and Joseph Reeder, lead battle system designer Kazutoyo Maehiro, battle system designer Hiroshi Tomomatsu, main character designer & background design supervisor Akihiko Yoshida, art directors Hideo Minaba and Isamu Kamikokuryo, movie director Eiji Fujii. According to the NA FFXII manual, the Executive producers were both Akitoshi Kawazu and Yoichi Wada. --Sjones23 20:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

You've already added the Yoichi Wada thing but mentioning every single member of the dev team is not necessary. That's what IMDb is for. I'm talking about how the game developed during the dev process. Axem Titanium 20:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Whoops! I almost forgot about that. My fault. I was afraid of that. You are trying to save me work that is not necessarily needed, so that is good to hear, Axem. Well, there is no turning back for me on doing how the game got developed. --Sjones23 00:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Good job and keep up the good work, Axem. We can't ignore important people in the infobox just so you know. I really like most of your comments. --Sjones23 00:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Remaining issues

It seems the major issues are expanding the Development section, reworking the feedback parts of the reception section (instead of listing scores already posted in the chart, we should have a para for praise, and a para for criticism, or two paras of mixed), and citing and compressing the Merchandise section. — Deckiller 00:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, everyone, there will be no turning back for good when it becomes an FA. I express some doubt about the FFXII article and that it it could not be an FA, maybe. Once it is an FA, we will review this FA together throughout the year. --Sjones23 00:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I wonder why you have doubts on the FA-ability of this article? Bluerです。 ^なにか? 17:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

This article is coming together at a decent rate, and it reminds me of the X, VIII, and X-2 pushes. I don't see why anyone is randomly doubting the push...— Deckiller 18:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

So, this article is comin' together at a decent rate, huh, Deckiller? Sometimes, I've got doubts on my mind about myself and the FFXII article because some FAs get demoted because of some FAs were nominated for FARCs, like in Super Mario 64 for instance. I don't really doubt the FA push. I think we should review FAs, for example in the FF Series and Chrono Trigger. IMHO (In My Honest Opinion), I think that Yoshitaka Amano, the image illustrator and title logo designer, and Miwa Shoda, the co-scenario writer with Watanabe deserve credit as the key members. The outcome depends not only on you, but also on me. Deckiller, we have to work together, ya know what I mean? By the way, Deckiller, did you adopt me by any chance? --Sjones23 20:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Featured articles are reviewed if they aren't up to current Wikipedia FA standards, not if there are minor content disputes. For example, Super Mario 64 was removed as a FA because it lacked inline citations and had serious lead and POV issues, and little work was done to fix those issues in the 1+ month given. The Final Fantasy articles were worked on within the last 6-8 months; they still conform to the current criteria. Minor issues are usually handled on the talkpages, not on FAR. Issuing a review for an article because one disagrees with a content point will result in the review getting delisted, and even if it isn't, like I said, it distracts everyone, because the anti-fiction nazis will swarm the review and waste our time. The key is to elevate quality in phases by getting all articles to conform to the current featured article criteria, instead of distracting ourselves by constantly and unnecessarily revisiting the same 3 articles while the others remain in poor condition. If we spend time distracting ourselves by issuing reviews over articles that do not need them, then we'll be spending time debating the same old fictional coverage issues with the same old editors, and not getting anywhere.

Again, most of the articles placed on FAR are there because they lack inline citations, which was not even used back in 2004 when featured articles were started (most of those articles on FAR are from that area, which we call "brilliant prose" era, because some of the articles featured back then ramble on for ages without crisp, succinct prose). The key is to conform to modern criteria and ensure the article reaches featured status; then, we revisit the article when new standards are pushed at Wikipedia:Featured article criteria, which usually happens every year and a half or so. The last major change to the FA criteira was an emphasis on inline citations (this article already has more than 100, and most of the FF articles have at least 40; most of the early FAs had 0)

As for the adoption: unfortunately, I have been unable to even devote significant time to adoptees, because of all the other projects going on. However, User:Darthgriz98 seems to be taking in a lot of people. — Deckiller 20:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean. So, Deckiller, I have been adopted recently by Darthgrix98. Ermmmmmm..... Deckiller...... what do you want me to do? --Sjones23 00:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Whatever you feel like working on. Being bold and working on pages that need sources and content is probably a good thing to do, or copy-editing articles, or working with the FA pushes...whatever you feel like doing :) Congrats on the award :) — Deckiller 02:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Bugs, bugs, bugs

Why can't I find a bugs section? Is that really a good article when it completely ignores the controller bug problem? Why can't I find a section on negative opinions? Phew, no wonder the wikipedia is down the road... looks like the happydisneypedia this days.

Sad former user who sends this message to the cancerberus-babysitter of the ffseries, not having found a single, useful link for sending feedback on the article, but finding some dozens of who knows what they will do made for wiki savvies. As a user, I feel downplayed and ignored. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.121.74.212 (talk) 16:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

Err... what are you on about? There are no bugs in this game that are notable enough to mention- this site isn't GameFAQs or whatever. Also, anyone can edit Wikipedia, so if you see something awry, fix it yourself! Sarrandúin ^{[ Talk + Contribs ]} 17:42, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The Recpetion section is on queue for a reworking within the next couple days. — Deckiller 17:47, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Box shot discussion

I just thought I'd point out that there is a discussion here on which box shot should be used in this article. Please add your views and comments on it there. Mattyatty 10:17, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Update - remaining issues to tackle?

Honestly, I don't think we have to go into details about what each website liked and hated; I personally feel the reception section is fine. Based on what everybody said above, I guess the main issues left are a slight expansion of the development section and references for the rest of the merchandise section? — Deckiller 10:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you think we should add pictures to the Setting and Story section? Appropriate ones, mind you. Bluerです。 ^なにか? 21:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not really necessary; usually, the more images we add to an article, the more image nazis will complain. — Deckiller 21:13, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The final hump - merchandise sourcing

There are two paragraphs in the merchandise section that lack sourcing. Before we go to FA, methinks we should probably get those paras sourced. I don't have ultimanias for that ultimania paragraph, however. — Deckiller 05:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

All facts have been given reliable citations. Now for the FA push! Good luck! Bluerです。 ^なにか? 12:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Kariteh and Deckiller, if you're gonna trim it, do it carefully. You want refs, there you go! Being a consumer who really bought the guide, I feel irked. Bluerです。 ^なにか? 04:22, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Now that there are refs, it's easier to keep the information. No need to feel irked. — Deckiller 04:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Deckiller, Bluerfn, Kariteh and Axem Titanium, you guys, along with me, will have to work together. Good luck! let me know if there is something you need to help me on. Sjones23 16:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

FA

Congratulations everyone! Second FA this week! Teamwork has again paid off, and shown how cohesive we are as a WikiProject. We are getting closer and closer. — Deckiller 17:13, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Finally! Congratulations! Wow, big THANKS to everyone that contributed for the FA! I was so looking forward to this! =D edit:And to think it came after reverting that IP's edit. Bluerです。 ^なにか? 17:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help, Deckiller! I was looking forward to this and thanks for helping me out for making the FFXII the FA. Sjones23 15:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

External Links

Hello, I would like to recommend Square Haven's Final Fantasy XII coverage for External Links. It includes 81 FFXII news articles going back to 2001, people profiles on 29 of the FFXII developers, 5 music album profiles, various other links, media, features, files, and finally, a FFXII Game Guide Database - probably the most comprehensive on the internet. The FFXII page can be found here -> http://www.square-haven.com/games/ps2/ffxii/
Thanks for your consideration,
Mberti 21:20, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

We're sorry for the late reply, but apparently the EL section allows for Official Site links and a wiki already covering much of the game's mechanics. So, no, that's not allowed. However, we recommend any additional and verifiable information from the site be placed into the article with a citation to the site. This is a better practise, and will not be considered linkspam by other editors. — Bluerです。 ^なにか? 06:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

spolier

needs spolier worning Tremewanbill 00:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, spoiler tags are unneeded because as per WP:FF's manual of style states, as per consensus, spoiler warnings are not necessarily needed. You may want to read the WP:FF's manual of style. Sjones23 01:53, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

You are directed to Talk: Final Fantasy VII#Lack of Spoiler Warnings. Direct your discussion there. Good day. Bluerです。 ^なにか? 04:20, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks and good day to you too. Sjones23 12:18, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm liking the page, but I find it odd that there isn't a link to espers. The characters are desribed and aeons were described in Final Fantasy X. It's only a suggestion, but espers are one of Final Fantasy's elements. Whitefirion 12:38, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it's because espers were not the same plot-related element that aeons were. While still important in this game, they are not the central focus of the story. Axem Titanium 22:06, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

FFXII article info?

Hmm, I've noticed some info, like FFXII being the "last numbered FF game for the Sony PlayStation 2" video game console was removed sadly from this article, because during the FAC process, such observations are discouraged and facts could be considered not terribly interesting/important pieces of WP:TRIVIA. I still believe and think the last numbered FF game for the Sony PlayStation 2 video game console" deserves honorable mention and it is important until it was removed (I was not impressed and was really flustered by that removal). I know there is plenty of mention for the newer capabilities and the infobox already mentions what the game was for. As explained in the FFVI article's talk page, such observations are discouraged during the FAC process, as what Deckiller said in one of his edit summaries. Bluerfn, Deckiller, Axem Titanium, any other comments and things you want to throw in? Sjones23 21:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it was trivial, but some trivias are allowed. Though the line is still blurry to me. Bluerです。 ^なにか? 21:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... I don't think the line was blurry to me however because it was important and I agree with your comments. Sjones23 21:39, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Reception

There was a section in reference to the "Allrpg" review of Final Fantasy XII (4.0) I felt this review was needlessly cited (Not only do their reviews number less than 15, but they have not remained constantly updated) IN other words, I felt this akin to letting a blog "review" merrit a whole article on the demerrits for this game, which is a bit ridiculous. If you need negative contrasts for the reception, please pull out a better published review.

Camera

How come there´s no mentioning about the fact that you can´t change the camera controls under the reception part? I´ve often seen people complaining about it on forums that it makes the game unplayable for people that are used to uninverted camera controls. I think that it´s important enough to mention in at least one sentence. Wolfhunter987 13:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

We need a reliable source for that. Kariteh 15:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It could be placed in the criticism section, but only if you have a real game reviewer (IGN, Gamespot comes to mind) saying that. No forum fanboys/girls remarks please. — Bluerです。 ^なにか? 15:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

These two seem reliable IMO: [1] [2]Wolfhunter987 16:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I think Sky News would be a reliable source, but it's quite a jump from "a situation not helped by camera controls which for some reason can't be inverted" (them) to "it makes the game unplayable for people that are used to uninverted camera controls" (you). Don't know about Gamingtrend. KeeperOfPrecepts 13:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure Sky News is a reliable source here personally. It's a generalist news website written by professional journalists, but not professional video game journalists. Kariteh 15:46, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

It only takes a couple hours to get used to a new camera configuration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.130.62.234 (talk) 14:14, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Nudity

May I just ask at what point of them is there nudity in? Why does one of the content descriptors say partial nudity?

I have no idea. Some ESRB decisions are entirely arbitrary. Axem Titanium 16:28, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Zalera's shamaness. Kariteh 17:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I assume also the Viera in Eryut Village counts toward that rating?72.130.241.83 18:15, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Shiva summon?

Duct tape tricorn (talk) 22:54, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know there is no Shiva summon in the whole game ~_~ where did you get that idea from? the only Shiva in the game is the Airship Shiva, (if anybody knows something else please notify me :)... ~~Matthew 09:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Shiva is a summon in almost all of the FF games before this, i think thats what he was referring to, and the Viera are pretty much naked, (look at Fran). cant really think of any others tbh =\ 86.130.26.81 (talk) 21:54, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Minor error in story section involving the dusk shard.

Sorry if I'm not doing this properly as I've never done this before. At the end of the second paragraph in the story section it says that Judge Ghis takes The Dusk Shard when the party are on board the Dreadnought Leviathan. At this point in the story the party haven't visited Raminas' tomb and taken the Dusk Shard. It's the Manufacted Nethicite that Ghis takes from the party.

I'm a little too scared to fix it in case I mess it up but someone else maybe should.

(81.129.175.126 21:29, 18 June 2007 (UTC))

The Dusk Shard is what Vaan stole from the Dalmascan palace, the Goddess Magicite, which Ghis took initially when they were captured in Bhujerba and brought to the Leviathan. The Dawn Shard is the one they retrieve from Raithwall's tomb, which Ghis took and tested, leading to his demise. Ghis has no interest in Manufacted Nethicite, he only wants Deifacted nethicite, and results. — Bluerで す。 01:25, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Two player mode

Information about the two player mode idea should be added in the article.[3] Kariteh 21:31, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Placed. IMO need some tweaking, though. — Bluerで す。 11:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Exactly what is Nethicite?

What's Nethicite? From a skim of the article, it appears to be significant to the plot, but exactly what it is, is never actually mentioned. Joylock 04:49, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Good catch. I've added "(a synthetic form of magicite)" to the article. -- wrp103 (Bill Pringle) ^(Talk) 14:58, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Which is incorrect. Nethicite is "negatively charged" magicite, which explains why when it is exquipped it reduces your MP to 0. The game furthers this by clairify the Dusk, Dawn, and Midlight Shards, as Deifacted Nethicite, as opposed to Manufactured Nethicite. King Raithwall retrieved the Deifacted Nethicite from the great Crystal and the Elder Beings.--67.160.239.65 19:35, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Versions

I know possible releases of special editions of SE's games in the West aren't usually included in articles, but SE Europe's press release after the Square Enix Party, available on their website, states that the International Zodiac Job System is currently planned for release in Japan only. Could this information be included in the article? EvilRedEye 19:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

The information is already written in the last paragraph of the article. — Blue。 19:37, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

You misunderstand me, I was referring specially to information on a Western release. EvilRedEye 19:42, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

"This title is currently planned for release in Japan only." If there's no announcement of an English version, why should we even bother to address the issue of a Western release? — Blue。 19:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd suggest there's a difference between an absence of any announcement of a Western release, and a statement saying the title is intended to remain a Japan only release. EvilRedEye 20:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

What's your suggestion for the sentencing and wording then? — Blue。 20:10, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

How about: 'An announcement by Square-Enix in May 2007 highlights that the title "is currently planned for release in Japan only"'. Or there a problem with tense there?

The US version would make a better reference since the Euro version is a .pdf file: [4]. EvilRedEye 20:26, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, I've tweaked the wording for the original sentence. — Blue。 20:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Cool, that works out better than an individual sentence. Should the press release be added as a citation? EvilRedEye 20:36, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

It's best to do so. edit: The comma use sounds wrong. It should be corrected somehow. — Blue。 20:39, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps add 'which is' before 'currently'? BTW, I'm going off-line now, so obviously no more replies from me 'til tomorrow. EvilRedEye 20:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Stuff that could be added

Taku Murata speaks about the game's development here: [5][6][7][8]; Square hastened the pre-production phase; there are 5 times more NPCs than in FFX, etc., lots of info that isn't in the article yet. Kariteh 13:58, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I also have some stuff commented out in the dev section that I should work on. I haven't completely exhausted the FFXII bonus disc's info yet. Axem Titanium 14:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Bump for Info845. The storyline was rushed. Kariteh 21:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I, personally, do not object to Info's latest version. It could still use a bit more work but at least it's neutral and doesn't exaggerate Kawazu's power of fan-reading. Axem Titanium 21:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to make a compromise in the wording. Axem Titanium 21:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Plot Summary

Per WP:PLOT, I do not think the plot summary, especially the story section, needs to be as long as it is. Wikipedia isn't a place to post such long plot summaries. Drumpler 22:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The plot section describes the backstory of the game as succinct as possible without incorporating in-universe elements, it is not lengthy. It is well sourced, well written, consensus was made that it was an article fit for an FA with the plot section written as it now. The plot section follows WikiProject: Final Fantasy, WikiProject: Square Enix and most importantly, WikiProject: Video Games guidelines. — Blue。 22:40, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

However, it does not follow Wikipedia guidelines on plots (emphasis mine):

Plot summaries. Wikipedia articles on published works (such as fictional stories) should cover their real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's development, impact or historical significance, not solely a detailed summary of that work's plot. This applies both to stand-alone works, and also to series. A brief plot summary may sometimes be appropriate as an aspect of a larger topic. (See also: Wikipedia:Television episodes, Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction), Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Style guidelines#Plot)

Most of the sources in the article text rely on in-game text. This is original research (which forbids "any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that appears to advance a position") as it attempts to interpret the storyline from said text. A sourced analysis, such as a reliable journal, book or some other source of information should be incorporated when it comes to plot details. Perhaps even interviews from the games creator's that analyze the plot details. I'm also to understand Square Enix releases a series of players' guides in Japan which go into plot details. This would be a reliable source.

Whether or not the article was featured is behind the point. I'm not saying its a bad article, per se. I'm just saying that this is one area where I feel it needs improvement and instead of going in and directly editing it myself, have opted for the support of the community to make it better. I think re-writing it with these guidelines in mind might help. Or if its too lengthy of an endeavor, resorting to a brief plot summary. Drumpler 11:17, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

edit: I don't think a rewrite is needed as of now. The article's plot section contains a large number of out-of-universe sources. Subsections such as Character have entailed character development with interviews from game developers. So does the Setting subsection. The Story subsection does not interpret the story, it presents the central storyline of the game. The editors involved in making this article a Featured have given a lot of effort following the guidelines. If you can present a viable alternative, maybe the Plot section can be reconsidered, but if vague suggestions is what you're giving, then we're better of with what we have now. — Blue。 11:31, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Drumpler, I wrote and gathered consensus on most of the guidelines for fiction; this plot summary is a perfect balance. 800-1200 words is fine for a plot summary. Also, using in-game text is not original research unless it synthesizes facts to forward a view or analysis not shown in the game. Heck, most FA plot summaries don't even bother having quote sources (or any at all), and they are easily passed. Using quotes actually proves that it's not "original research" as it shows that the summary is an obvious interpretation of the events. A small trim might be acceptable, as I prefer RPG summaries of 800-1000 words, but it's not a big deal. — Deckiller 14:04, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Nov 20th

I realize its kind of a small point (and moot in a week anyway) but should the sentence about the NA release of Revenant Wings really be using "was released" to refer to an event that hasn't happened yet? (I didn't change it in case there was some obscure reason...) DumberDrummer 01:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It looks like an anon editor changed it yesterday but I guess it's okay in the long run to just leave it. If it bothers you, feel free to change it. Axem Titanium 02:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Extremely disruptive bug

I have just encountered a terrible bug in the game and am wondering whether or not it is documented anywhere and if it is notable enough to be mentioned anywhere in the article.

I had just taken away about two dots from Yiazmat and was heading back for the save crystal near the Strahl. One of my characters stepped over a trap, and it detonated just as I pressed “X” to collect a treasure from a chest. Then the game “near-froze”—the music continued to play, the breeze still blew about my characters’ clothing, and my characters continued to blink red from the trap, but I couldn’t do anything except move the “camera” around. My characters were frozen in place, and none of the buttons worked. I couldn’t even bring up the menu or go to the pause screen. All I could do was move the blasted camera around. So I shut the PlayStation 2 off. — 4.169.121.156 (talk) 01:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia's talk page guidelines, this is not the best place to discuss this kind of thing. I would suggest you contact someone who can actually help you if the problem persists. Thus far, there have been no official press releases about bugs in FFXII. Axem Titanium (talk) 03:47, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

External Link - Video Walkthroughs

Game Anyone's video walkthrough page for Final Fantasy XII should be included in the External Links section for reference for gamers. [Spamlink removed - NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 17:14, 1 July 2008 (UTC)] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.181.228.6 (talk) 05:34, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Many websites make and host video walkthroughs. Per WP:EL, that link would not qualify. The consensus is to restrict it to official links and Wikia. Axem Titanium (talk) 06:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Ratings

From All Ages to 16+.... how come the ratings for this game vary so much? Savager (talk) 09:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Different boards have different concerns...for example, the US cares a lot about sexual content when Europe doesn't (as much).—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 16:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

What sexual content?!?!Ffgamera (talk) 12:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Genre

I'd like to raise the question of whether or not it's classified in the correct genre. The flows and runs very much like a MMORPG (minus other players) rather than any other Console RPG I know of and doesn't fit the current definition of the genre as described in the Console RPG page. I'm not saying that it should be classified as a MMORPG because it clearly isn't one but I think a more ambiguous listing of RPG would be more accurate. That all said, the Console RPG article needs a good amount of work and is pretty important as far as videogame articles go so any help over there would be appreciated. UncannyGarlic (talk) 07:53, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Copyedited "story"

I just finished doing a full copyedit of the "Story" section. To be honest, I'm not sure how this ever passed FAC in this state (and yes, the version of the Story section that passed FAC was pretty much identical to the version I copyedited), and can only conclude that the FAC reviewers were careless, at least in looking at this section. It was full of clunky style issues, unnecessary details, and some outright grammatical errors. I've cleaned it up as well as I can to make it flow, but it still needs a lot of work: the main problem is that names of people and places are mentioned with no explanation of what they are or what they mean, meaning it's useless as a plot summary for anyone who has not played the game (even I, who have played the game once, had a hard time following it and understanding it). Another problem, which I have tried to fix but may still be present, is overly detailed point-by-point recounting of things that happen rather than summary of the results—for example, in the earlier version one part said something along the lines of "Larsa says Ashe should try to get a peace treaty; Ashe doesn't want to; Larsa makes an argument; Ashe changes her mind and decides to do it; they go on to Bur-Omisace". Something like that should just say "Larsa convinces Ashe to seek a peace treaty" or whatever, we don't need a full account of the discussion. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 02:58, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Art book

I was wandering around this video game store when a see a FF XII look alike, i thought it was the International version which i had never seen, but when i pick it up, it was sort of a art DVD, it looked perfectly legit, the box art was like the European, you know the judge with the two swords, i can`t find anything on it, anywhere on the article or the web, if it wasn`t because i hold it i would`t believe it, anyone know about it? Zidane tribal (talk) 05:57, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

It was Final Fantasy XII Art Collection, it should be mentiones in the article. Zidane tribal (talk) 06:20, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

The controller issue

the triangle button and the select button are inactive and unusable for many HUNDREDS of players owning controllers labeled as such:

       SONY (R)
       Analog Controller
       Sony Computer
       Entertainment Inc. "A"

it has been confirmed that using a controller with an alternately lettered label will work to fix this. it is a rare, but serious problem, and i believe, considering the many possible lost and confused buyers out there, that this bit of information should be somehow included on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.56.241.48 (talk) 12:30, 24 December 2009 (UTC)