Talk:Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within/Archive 1

DVD feature info

Needs info on DVD features. There is also a Japanese "Spiritual Edition" DVD, though I don't know what the difference is.

Can anyone find a capture of the aliens from this movie (not spirits, but aliens from the fight in Aki's dream)? I might use them as illustration for game engine 6th generation, may be...Paranoid 15:58, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

While the film does carry the name "Final Fantasy," it is only peripherally related to Squaresoft's popular Final Fantasy series of games. This may be true, but all of the Final Fantasy series of games are pretty much peripherally related to each other, so this doesn't seem very significant. The plot of the movie is not much more a departure from the plots of Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy X than they are from each other. --The demiurge 21:14, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Fixed. The relationships between the various Final Fantasy incarnations are in their themes (and in certain traditions, like recurring names). -- Perey 01:46, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The fact that this movie actually takes place on a future Earth, rather than a ficticious fantasy world, is a massive departure from the Final Fantasy games. Redxiv 16:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Rendering time

Can someone give me the citation on rendering time? I compute that at 30 fps a 100 minute long movie would take approximately 30.82 years at 1.5 hours per frame. Maybe minutes is meant? -SocratesJedi | Talk 01:19, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• No, it's probably hours, and that's still fairly speedy for the time. That's why a render farm of hundreds of computers is required. --Misterwindupbird 19:36, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

• well 1.5 hours per machine no? so 30.82 years divided by the number of machines in the render farm perhaps... (i say this because there is no way you could render an extremely high res image using the algorithms they used in under two minutes not even with today's hardware, unless they are strictly talking throughput of the farm) either way i am pretty sure they site this figure in the special features on the DVD if anyone has it so they can then verify/correct, cheers -c 67.23.125.138 04:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Question about the graphics card used in the production of the film

I dont know if this is right or wrong or maybe I just have lack of understanding in the production of CGI movie/scene but here is my question:

I would like to ask what graphics card used in the production of the film and how is the process of production using the graphics card, considering it is done on a computer farm? Im quite surprised with the photorealism of the CGI, while during that time nVidia had a tech demo using the latest that time the GeForce 3 which had hard time rendering the grpahics scenes in real-time "GeForce 3, rendering several scenes from the movie in real-time albeit at only 10 frames per second and with lower quality (simpler model with noticeable polygons, clipping problems, less realistic skin and textile with no/poor shaders – "plastic" look, unrealistic lighting, poor specular highlighting and very limited self-shadowing)."Italic text

• The film was once rendered on farm. Render was to produce frames - stills. They were than joined to one complex video file. GeForce3 demonstration was done on 10x simplier models, with much lower number of hairs, shading and shadow lower quality and much less details at all. So that's why it could get 10 fps.
  • Comparing the GeForce3 demo and the film is actually very misleading. IIRC, they have almost nothing in common. The GeForce demo was rendered using the standard polygon mesh and lighting that almost all games use, and so used the graphics hardware because rendering could be done in a highly parallel way using standard real-time rendering techniques. The movie was rendered using a combination of ray tracing and other techniques and used the CPUs of the farm with relatively little (if any) work by the GPU, because speed (and parallelization) was much less important than getting the lighting correct and rendering shapes properly (ie non-polygonaly). The only thing the two really had in common was that their models were extracted from the same original geometry. --24.81.13.220 05:53, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
    • yeah render farms are not a traditional setup do some research on node computing if you wish to entirely understand the concept, not only that but the mathematical representations of the "models" to be rendered are different you talking about set poly-count (polygon) beizer splines vs. nurbs curves and beizers think "raster" vs. "vector" or in lieu of the lack of metaphor adobe photoshop vs. adobe illustrator only in 3D ;) -- hope that helps -- and in any case i moved that section down to an "interesting fact" because it sounded like a random tangent/argument in the middle of a "production" paragraph (i.e. nvidia tech has nothing to do with the movie's production)... cheers -c 67.23.125.138 05:14, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Versions of the soundtrack album

From what I heard:

• In Hong Kong edition, there was a bonus track of Candy Lo's (卢巧音) song called "Screaming" (呐喊). I don't know where it was played in the HK version of the movie, but I only know so far that it was listed like what websites said.
• In Indonesian edition, there were two bonus tracks (minus Candy Lo's song). But I neither heard of them nor knew where they were played in the Indonesian version of this movie.--Gh87 01:13, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

pics

Do we really need quite so many pictures in the article? One or two would seem to be enough to give a sense of the film's look. --Misterwindupbird 20:54, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Images

It's not really acceptable to use fair use images in a gallery, as you've done here. Please pick one to illustrate the article, and I will delete the other three from that section "Images from the Movie." Thanks. Chick Bowen 04:37, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Seiko Wrist Holo

I notice Seiko created a limited edition(?) of the Wrist Watch Holo, featured in Spirits Within. Does anyone have any more information on this? Perhaps add this to the article once there's enough solid information about the wrist holo. Short info about the watch at http://www.gamespot.com/news/2001/06/19/news_2777172.html
HighEnergyProtons 04:40, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Isn't this a moot statement?

"While the film does carry the name Final Fantasy, it is only vaguely thematically related to Square Co., Ltd.'s popular Final Fantasy series of games."

Well, duh. The Final Fantasy games only thematically relate to one another. What are peoples thoughts on this? Bihal 05:44, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Well... Final Fantasy games have quite a few long-standing traditions. For example:

• There are always airships. (All 12.)
• There is someone named Cid. (Starting with FFII, iirc.) He is (pick two): A king, a scholar, an airship pilot, an engineer, or a great warrior.
• Almost without exception, the main character's weapon of choice is a sword or similar bladed weapon. Swords are regularly portrayed as more effective than guns.
• Fantasy is mixed freely with sci-fi; your characters may wind up casting Lightning spells on giant mechanized tanks.
• There are flightless yellow ostrich-like riding birds called Chocobos. (Starting in FFIV, I believe). Both Spirits Within and Advent Children lack them; so far, the Chocobos are seen in only the games.
• There are cutesy little creatures called "Moogles" (or Moguros, or Mogs), who are (usually) pale pink teddy bears with tiny bat wings, a ridiculous pom-pom, and a tendency to say "kupo".
• There is usually a dragon named "Bahamut", whether he is an NPC character, an enemy, or a summonable monster.
• The plot frequently revolves around crystals holding the powers of air, water, earth, and fire.
• There is almost always a sword named "Masamune", and it is usually the most powerful weapon in the game.
• There is always a noble band of oddball heroes out to save the world from scheming bad guys and ancient monsters.
• Female party members tend to need rescuing a lot, and stereotypically are not very independant or strong-willed. In recent games, notably 9, 10, and 12, this rule has been regularly broken. Perhaps Square has abandoned chauvinism?
• There is always the ascending-and-descending arpeggio of the FF Prelude, and there is always the Final Fantasy Main Theme (both by certifiable musical genius Nobuo Uematsu. Even if they're not played in the actual game or movie proper, they'll at least play in the credits.
• There is often a great mistrust of authority figures; the scheming bad guy is usually revealed to be a trusted general or king who is secretly bent on world domination (with all the trusting citizens eating out of his hand, of course). Meanwhile, the party that saves the world is typically made up of thieves, rebels, terrorists, deserters, merceneries, assassins, and escaped laboratory specimens... you know - heroes. :P
• The ultimate villain is usually long-haired, usually silver-haired, usually wields a sword, is always male, and his name usually begins with "s".
• There is usually a good deal of names and ideas lifted from Jewish/Hebrew mythology and/or the Kabbalah, such as Sephiroth.

I could go on, but I'm sure I've already exhausted you... In a sense, there is only one Final Fantasy, and it just gets retold a different way each time. The plots are largely rearranged mix-and-match style, and the characters are frequently recycled. What's truly behind the unquenchable popularity of the series is its comforting regularity: the packaging may change, but the message, the core of FF, always consists of the same predictable, understandable archetypes. Square has discovered how to print money by essentially selling the same game twelve times, and I say more power to them.  :) Kasreyn 03:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

A few errors:

1) The Chocobo's first appeared in the 2nd Final Fantasy, had pretty much nothing to do besides an extra use for transportation.

2) The Crystals are only in the first 5 then again on 9.

3) Not all the girls are weak, Tifa was strong, Rinoa was a carefree spirit kind of thing and Yuna was more strong willed than Tidus.

4) The main Villian has not always been male, Edea and Ultimecia from 8 were both females and Seifer had short hair, was more of Squalls Rival anyway.. in fact I guess a tradition is to two variations of Evil, like ShinRa and Sephiroth were both considered evil though they were fighting each other. I believe they also used a Staff though I am not 100%.

5) There is little references from Judism, most of it is drawn of Nordic Myths such as Odin, Ragnarok, Nifelhiem etc..

Final Fantasy is an evolving story which incorporates many of their traditions whilst bringing it to the next level. Dragonquest VIII is a better example of a game has the same basis of the old games and not much new is added except flashier graphics. I can't remember watching the Spirits Within but it severely lacked the Final Fantasy Atmosphere and a waste of their time to make it.Lord of nothing 00:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

A few corrections in turn:

1. Final Fantasy IV was released in the U.S. as Final Fantasy II. So we're actually both talking about the same game.

2. I'd say the materia in VII are close enough to be considered part of the tradition. If not the basic materia, how about the Huge Materia? There are four Huge Materia, and they come in the traditional four elemental crystal colors (gold, blue, red, green). And the magicite in XII is certainly crystalline in nature, though I'm not far enough in XII yet to know how similar it might be.

3. Tifa may have been physically strong (at least, in cutscenes - in gameplay I was never impressed by her limits or weapons), but emotionally she spent too much time being weak and dependant on Cloud for my taste. Likewise, Rinoa was too much the fainting "ooh, my hero" type. Garnet and Yuna were the ones who finally bucked this tradition. And Ashe completely shatters it.  ;)

4. Hm. Never played VIII to the end, so I guess I stand corrected. I quit playing it because I decided it sucked... just assumed Seifer would be the final boss.

6. Not true. See here for the mythological background behind many of FF's ideas. I'd say it's about a even 3-way split between Greco-Roman, Nordic, and Abrahamic religious traditions, with a tiny bit of Asian mythology thrown in.

And you're definitely right about FF:TSW lacking the FF atmosphere. Enough years have gone by that I've forgiven the movie and I can enjoy it as a fun space opera flick, but in my book it'll never be FF. Cheers, Kasreyn 05:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the obvious truth is that people didn't want a Final Fantasy movie, they specifically wanted Final Fantasy VII: The Movie. If Advent Children had been made back then instead of Spirits Within, it would have been a smash hit. Master Deusoma

Actually, Cid is, at the very least, mentioned in every Final Fantasy game, including the first, where the Lefeinish accredit him to the advent of the Airship and fundamentally leading thier society into the eventual creation of the Sky Castle and thier Golden Age . . . until Tiamat, the Fiend of Wind, took over the Castle, and the Lefeinish society crashed, after being seperated from the rest of the world both geographically and linguistically.

Correction in passing :
:1. Final Fantasy IV was released in the U.S. as Final Fantasy II. So we're actually both talking about the same game.
Actually he's right and you're wrong, there's some in FF2 and FF3 (and i'm talking about the NES games)
:2. I'd say the materia in VII are close enough to be considered part of the tradition. If not the basic materia, how about the Huge Materia? There are four Huge Materia, and they come in the traditional four elemental crystal colors (gold, blue, red, green). And the magicite in XII is certainly crystalline in nature, though I'm not far enough in XII yet to know how similar it might be.
Materia are nothing but an extention of the crystal shards founds in FF6, and there's a crystals all right in FFXII (you actually go in 1, and the one atop ridorna and the small pieces)
:3. Tifa may have been physically strong (at least, in cutscenes - in gameplay I was never impressed by her limits or weapons), but emotionally she spent too much time being weak and dependant on Cloud for my taste. Likewise, Rinoa was too much the fainting "ooh, my hero" type. Garnet and Yuna were the ones who finally bucked this tradition. And Ashe completely shatters it.  ;)
let's all forget the strong female chars in FFII, the fact that chars do not have gender in the 1rst game and the strong main in FFXII

4. Hm. Never played VIII to the end, so I guess I stand corrected. I quit playing it because I decided it sucked... just assumed Seifer would be the final boss.

you also didn't play FFIII where the end boss is clearly female (even if it's a monster)

6. And about the similarity in the designs, it's more that Nomura designed 7/8/10 where the characters look so much alike, heck for what it's worth i'm pretty sure the end boss of ffi->ffvi don't fall in the cliché of long white hair black cloak guys (especially the one in full armor)

Word of the day, check your infos ;) (heck some of them are even in the related wiki pages) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.80.239.162 (talk) 09:40, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The abandoned script

Rewatching the film with commentary and the special features it seems to suggest the script had a major rewrite for instance the huge phantom Gray shoots at was once an organic tank and most of the summoned demons from the game appeared at the end of the film.Atirage 03:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, there has to be some more information about this somewhere. For one, I believe I read somewhere that the movie was intended to be the first of a trilogy. Second, 'Phantom' sounds an awful lot to me like "Phantom Beast", used in Fan Translations of Final Fantasy 6 in place of "Esper". I think what happened was the translator wasn't too into Final Fantasy games, and instead decided to 'simplify' for a movie audience, getting the story we have now. I've always thought that the big, bad, final blast of Lifestream Gaia was a massive Holy spell. Spirits Within could very well have taken place before any of the Final Fantasy worlds. --Kojiro Takenashi 04:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Merge in soundtrack

The soundtrack is singular, meaning there isn't enough for a stand alone "Music of Spirits within" article, so we should make it part of the music section here. Judgesurreal777 19:46, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Final fantasy the spirits within.jpg

Image:Final fantasy the spirits within.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge comment

I removed this:

"It is commonly agreed that the financial failure of the film coupled with other circumstances at the time proved to be the catalyst that inspired Square Co.'s merger with Enix."

Besides the weasel words (commonly agreed? by whom? fans?), I can't find anything relevant on the subject. Unless you count a trivia section on moby games saying that it's "likely" or some independant blog posts. If some can find a reputable source to cite, by all means, add it back in. 76.205.213.37 23:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Good catch. I fixed this with the real fact. The failure of the film wasn't the catalyst for the merger; on the contrary, the merger was in consideration since well before the film, and the financial failure of the film was actually a potential reason for Enix to cancel the merger.[1] Kariteh 07:24, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Woah, I added the fact but forgot to delete the old "it is commonly agreed" sentence, which is totally false and opposite. Bluerfn corrected it. Sorry. Kariteh 07:58, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Blue Ray release

Can anyone add some info about the Blue Ray edition of the movie? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Salem Wiki (talk • contribs) 07:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Plot Summary

It seems to me that the plot summary has a few things mixed up, only checked the last part, I'll see if I can go over the rest later but for starters the Zeus cannon fired directly into the Earth's Gaia which triggered the Alien Gaia's reaction. Also, I don't know if the article would be better off with describing the "bright floating orbs" as souls, same with Gray using his soul instead of his physical body to infect the alien Gaia. Vadigor 21:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

This is not a good explanation for someone who knows nothing about the Final Fantasy franchise. I started watching the movie, and thought this article would help to explain what the hell the "spirits" are, but it is totally unenlightening: "on a mission to find the 6th spirit" - yes, but what the heck are the 1st to 5th spirits? If the explanation is in another article, could there be a link to it please. - comment from unregistered user

Merge

While it may not look like it, the character really has nothing to define an article. Like most one movie characters, it is better to lump and development and reception into the main article, unless it just gets way too large. In this case, the development fits in just fine, and it makes sense to use the character's sex appeal in the reception section. TTN 14:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Although the article has enough real-world content, the organizational aspect might strengthen this article and give it easy GA/FA potential. — Deckiller 22:09, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, I feel there is enough information in both articles to keep them seperate. ConnertheCat 20:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Since I disagreed in the edit summaries, I guess this discussion's result after about one week is no consensus. Kariteh 15:18, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I take it you loved my Goldenthal score article so much you just couldnt live with out it. lol :) Terrasidius (talk) 05:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 19:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

.ogg

Hey guys, i can add some non-free .ogg files to spruce it all up a bit if you like, i got all my templates ready. :) Also incase your wondering, ive been past here alot recently, adding refs and reviews and links...ive been working on Goldenthal articles steadily for about a year. Anyway, get back to me if you want those sound clips put in the article, ill stick one in so you can hear it. Terrasidius (talk) 05:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Square Pictures is not defunct

I removed the statements about Square Pictures being defunct. The company still exists as a consolidated subsidiary of Square Enix. See [2] p. 31 and 55. Megata Sanshiro (talk) 14:21, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Horror?

Is this not a horror movie? 69.220.2.188 (talk) 03:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

No its obviously sci-fi... 86.42.10.122 (talk) 23:41, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Plot Editing

Hi, I edited the Plot because it was described as being too long, yet it was reverted back because someone assumed it was vandalism. Why? Was it not being requested to be Shortened and more to the point? 71.166.73.33 (talk) 00:03, 6 November 2008 (UTC)