Talk:Eva Braun/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 01:36, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Interesting subject, and a highly-viewed article. Review to come soon. J Milburn (talk) 01:36, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Images

• File:Evabraun2 large.jpg is completely unsourced, and there is no evidence of publication.Y removed
• The image page for File:Eva and Ilse Braun 1913.jpg claims that the image is owned by Getty, but that it is released under a CC license. The former claim is unsourced, the latter claim highly unlikely.Y removed
• The sourcing on File:Franziska Braun.jpg is highly unusual, but seems trustworthy. However, a cleanup of the image page would be good.Y done
• File:Bundesarchiv B 145 Bild-F051673-0059, Adolf Hitler und Eva Braun auf dem Berghof.jpg is fine. Regardless of the questionable "release" of the content, Commons is most certainly willing to accept these images at this time.

Prose

• These statements seem somewhat incongruous: "...but did not attend public events with him until mid-1944, when her sister Gretl married Hermann Fegelein, the SS liaison officer on his staff" and "The German public was wholly unaware of Braun until after her death". If she was attending public events with Hitler, the public surely had some awareness of her?
  • There were always lots of hangers-on and an entourage. They were not aware of the relationship; will fix. --Dianna (talk)
• Friedrich "Fritz" Braun is linked, but just points to this articleY fixed
• "Braun was educated at a lyceum, and then for one year at a business school in a convent" Do we know the names of these places? Is there a reason they're not identified?Y added what I could find
• "She worked for several months as a receptionist at a medical office, and at age 17, took a job as an office and lab assistant and photographer's model for Heinrich Hoffmann, the official photographer for the Nazi Party." Quite a long and clunky sentenceY The first job is not so important so I cut that.
• "of his niece, Geli Raubal, with whom he may have been intimate." How controversial is this claim? I worry about just slipping in something like this if it is widely disputed.
  • He lived with her. It is debated, but has a fairly good basis in fact, as he missed her like crazy for the rest of his life. I will edit it. --Dianna (talk)
• "Hitler saw more of Braun after the 1931 death of his niece, Geli Raubal, with whom he may have been intimate.[7][8] Raubal was found dead in Hitler's Munich apartment, shot with his pistol, an apparent suicide. He was in Nueremberg at the time of her death.[9] Braun attempted suicide in 1932 by shooting herself in the chest with her father's pistol.[10] Historians feel the attempt was not serious, but was a bid for Hitler's attention.[11][12]" Firstly, do we have more precise dates for these incidents? Secondly, the prose seems to jump from Raubal's suicide attempt to Braun's. Is the claim meant to be that Braun was attempting to imitate Raubal?
  • The events may have been related but the sources do not say so. Added more exact dates and split Braun's suicide attempt into a new paragraph. --Dianna (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
• "According to a fragment of her diary and the account of biographer Nerin Gun, Braun's second suicide attempt occurred in May 1935." How? Why?Y added more
• If Angela Reubal was Hitler's half sister, was his "niece" not actually a half-niece, or some other relation?Yhalf niece is correct
• Awkward style issue, but- "Angela Raubal (the dead Geli's mother ... saw Eva as untouchable". The use of given names jars a little, especially in the latter case.Y tweeked. Please let me know if you want it edited further, or if you have a suggested wording. --Dianna (talk)
• When did Braun start spending time at Obersalzburg?
  • The sources do not say exactly, but she was a regular fixture there by 1936.
• "She would be wearing a "dressing gown or house-coat", drinking wine, while Hitler would have tea." How about "She would wear a "dressing gown or house-coat" and drink wine; Hitler would have tea."Y
• I'm struggling to see the difference between the "Relationship with Hitler" and "Life with Hitler" sections; could you perhaps expand on the split?
  • The first one is intended as a chronology, and the second as a description of the lifestyle. I will check it over and move the material about. -- Dianna (talk) I have also re-named the second section to "Lifestyle". --Dianna (talk) 19:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
• "and found the lifeless bodies" Clarify whose?Y
• I'm not sure the specifications of Hitler's gun are important.
  • It was the gun Geli used to kill herself. I will say so. --Dianna (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
• I believe I am right in saying that Hitler killed his dog? Do we know what happened to Braun's? (That may sound a ridiculous thing to ask- if so, sorry)
  • I will add it if I find out. The new book by Gortemaker is really poorly indexed so I will have to read the whole thing to see if the info is included. It's not in Lambert. --Dianna (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC) I added Blondi's fate and will add anything further that I am able to find out. - D.
• "Her mother, Franziska, died at age 91 in January 1976, having lived out her days in an old farmhouse in Ruhpolding, Bavaria." Fate of other immediate family members?Y added what I could find.
• I'm not completely sure I see the point of the family tree. I don't mind it being there, but, seeing as her lineage does not seem important, and none of her ancestors are notable...Y removed
• I am surprised to be saying this, but is there perhaps something to be written about artistic portrayals of her? I'm certainly not meaning "In episode x of Family Guy...", but has she perhaps been portrayed in a meaningful way since her death? Any kind of legacy to speak of?
  • There was a wee pop-culture section in the version before I started. Not keen to leave this unencyclopedic stuff in the article. --Dianna (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Sources, categories etc

• No ISBN for the Junge source?Y
• Should Jewish Virtual Library be italicised in note 37?Y
• Perhaps wikilink the publishers in the references section?Y Done, and added authorlinks etc as well.
• The ISBN of the Knopp source is not dashed, the others are.Y
• Her religion is not mentioned in the article, but there is a category.Y removed
• In the infobox- surely, her secretarial work is more significant than her modelling?Y tweaked. The secretarial post with Hitler was a show-title only. She did not actually help in that regard.
• Also in the infobox- the article explicitly says that she was not a member of the Nazi Party.Y Removed

A fairly critical review, but it's an important topic; I hope you don't mind. I'll also take a look at how some other encyclopedias have presented her, and trawl through some of the talk page discussions here. I hope my thoughts so far are helpful. J Milburn (talk) 02:19, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for getting started so soon. We will deal with these issues as quickly as possible. --Dianna (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

All queries have been responded to, I think. --Dianna (talk) 05:35, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Note of style: J Milburn, would you rather go with military (24 hour time) or not as to this part which states:"...After 13:00 on the afternoon of 30 April 1945, Braun and Hitler said their farewells to staff and members of the inner circle. Later that afternoon, at approximately 3:30 pm..." Kierzek (talk) 03:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I personally prefer am/pm, but I know of no policy/guideline supporting me there. Consistency is the important thing. J Milburn (talk) 21:27, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Y fixed Kierzek (talk) 02:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Looking through the talk page and a few other accounts of her life, I'm seeing no real problems. Looking back through the prose-

• "By 1936 the sisters had been provided with a villa in Bogenhausen.[17] By 1936" Repetition. Perhaps the sentences could be merged? Y fied.
• This perhaps me being moronic, but the lead states that they were married for "less than 40 hours" (implying 35-40), but the prose says "After midnight on 29 April, Hitler and Braun were married in a small civil ceremony ... [gunshots] at approximately 3:30 pm". This would imply they were married for only about 15 hours.
  • The wedding was on the night of 28-29 April, around midnight, and the suicide was on 30 April, around 3 in the afternoon. So they were married all of April 29 and half of April 30. I figured out why the text was not so clear, so I have amended it.

This is an excellent article, and would have real potential at FAC. I'm happy to promote once the above two issues are resolved. J Milburn (talk) 15:30, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your kind words about the article, the improvement of which involved three editors: Kierzek, Alarbus, and myself. Thanks also for taking the time to do the GA review. Cheers, --Dianna (talk) 16:54, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I have promoted the article; great work. J Milburn (talk) 01:10, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Note that I have placed it in "historical figures: other", but have no objection to it being moved, perhaps to " political figures". J Milburn (talk) 01:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks again for your helpful review, which led to further improvements of the article and embiggened the wiki. Regards, --Dianna (talk) 03:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)