Talk:Ethnomathematics/Archive 1

NPOV lacking

The article lacks NPOV. The section that describes ethnomathematics is only a stub. The long section of criticism is one-sided. Please help fix this article. Especially, we need factual description of ethnomathematics. Zaslav 05:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm wondering why Zaslav changed the sentence "Ethnomathematicians typically ..." to "Ethnomathematicians often ...". S/he asks for factual description of the field but has neutralized one such factual description. I have removed 'often' and suggest that no one reinsert the word unless they know of an example of someone claiming to be an ethnomathematician, who does NOT take the view that mathematics comprises artifacts of particular cultures. This is the heart of what ethnomathematics is!

Doftye (April 17, 2006)

I am puzzled by the phrase "artifacts of particular cultures". Exactly what does this mean? Your general point is valid. I tried to rewrite the introduction and add detail so as to give a better picture of what ethomath is about (and I am ready to be corrected or improved upon) while maintaining NPOV.

Zaslav 12:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Let's state criticisms and answers factually without getting into an argument in the Wikipedia article. We can argue here on the talk page. It would be desirable to reference criticisms and replies. (I have not done this yet.)

Explanation of my last edit: We should avoid saying "many" mathematicians (or ethnomathematicians) think something particular unless we know what "many" mathematicians or ethnomathematicians think. It seems a safe guess that not many mathematicians care one way or the other about ethnomathematics.

My position on ethnomathematics: it is not mathematics but it is a closely related scholarly activity that needs the participation of people who know academic mathematics. It is also closely related to math education, which leads to some strong opinions, but it is not math education.

Zaslav 08:59, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I think there's also a little bit of confusion in this article between the subject (mathematics in different cultures) and the discipline (its position as a field of academic study). There may be some hard mathematics people opposed to ethnomathematics being considered a branch of mathematics, but they can hardly be objecting to finger counting, say, as a subject for anthropologists.--Pharos 02:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

DON'T Merge !

Suggest that Anti-racist mathematics be merged into Ethnomathematics. As far as I can tell, these are the same thing. OscarTheCat3 21:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

• I don't think so. Ethnomathematics is just the academic study of mathematics in different cultures. Antiracist mathematics, though it draws some ideas from ethnomathematics, is fundamentally different as it's not a field of study but a proposal for education reform. I'm sure there are many scholars of ethnomathematics who do not endorse the educational ideas of anti-racist mathematics.--Pharos 22:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

And what exactly are the "the educational ideas of anti-racist mathematics"? Can you give some examples? SecurID 12:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Basically, the whole topic that's covered at Anti-racist mathematics. For example, that students should be especially taught about non-European contributions to mathematics.--Pharos 05:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• If my opinion counts, I agree that the article does not require merging - perhaps it requires renaming? Something like 'unbiased' mathematics. The name suggested in the introduction for 'unbiased curriculum' based mathematics sounds like a good idea.

MrASingh 01:13, 24 Feb 2007 (UTC)

Don't merge

I agree with the no-merge folks -- there are ways to practice anti-racist math teaching without ethnomathematics. Anti-biological determinism for example (eg S.J. Gould's Mismeasure of Man) gives powerful support to anti-racist pedagogy of all sorts. One can teach math by using examples that are anti-racist (eg comparative studies of the poverty index) without using ethnomath.

Conversely there are those who have studied the math of non-western cultures but saw it as "primitive"--that was ethnomath but not anti-racist.

Eglash 20:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Vague Ethnomathematician's Response to Criticism

Just want to point out the vagueness of the "ethnomathematician's response" to the first point in the Criticism section. The last sentence of the first paragraph reads: "An ethnomathematician might reply that ethnomathematics is not meant to be a branch of mathematics nor of anthropology, but combines elements of both in something different from either." The bold portion of this sentence says almost nothing objective or useful about the discipline, nor does it respond in a meaningful way to the criticism. The sentence has almost no value as a counterpoint, and should probably be improved or deleted.

Also, the "ethnomathematician's response" to the second criticism does not make one bit of sense in the context of that paragraph. The response suggests that the independent development and/or discovery of negative numbers or Pascal's Triangle were merely a function of mathematical thought arising from ordinary life experiences. This seems to be a non sequitur argument. It should probably be replaced with a clearer counterpoint as well.

JoeJimbs 05:36, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I see nothing has changed in this section - it's still vague and unsatisfying. Anyone up to a re-write? Bazuz (talk) 01:36, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Swiss/Belgian French

The article states "Swiss French and Belgian French do not use [quatre-vingt], preferring more standard Latinate forms: octante for 80 and nonante for 90." The articles on Swiss French and Belgian French both contradict this assertion, so I've flagged it as needing a citation. -- Heath 128.173.42.61 (talk) 17:28, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I can only answer for Switzerland: "septante" is used for 70, "huitante" and "nonante" are (not everywhere) used for 80 and 90, respectively. "Octante" had been used, but is now probably obsolete. --131.152.227.74 (talk) 13:18, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

As a French going sometimes to Belgium, I can confirm that the Belgians use septante for 70 and nonante for 90, but they use the standard quatre-vingt for 80. Now we need to find a "real" source confirming that. Frédéric Grosshans (talk) 14:30, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Inline citations

Why, what, where, and how does this article need additional citations for verification? Hyacinth (talk) 05:05, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Tag removed. Hyacinth (talk) 01:20, 30 August 2012 (UTC)