Talk:Elaine Paige/Archive 1

Archive 1

Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 21:49, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

GA Review

Lead

The first sentence should be combined with the next paragraph.

"...had attended Aida Foster stage school"

You should probably drop the "had" to keep the tense consistent.

"She also hosts her own show on Radio 2."

Change to show it is BBC Radio 2.

Background

"Paige was raised in Barnet, Hertfordshire, her father an estate agent and her mother a milliner."

Trying using a verb in the second clause. No verb makes it awkward.

"Her mother had been a singer in her youth and her father an amateur drummer, where Paige was surrounded by a lot of jazz music."

"A lot of jazz music" is very informal. It should be changed.

"Paige originally wanted to become a professional tennis player, although her headmistress did point out to her "they'd never see you over the net," now standing at just under 5ft tall."

First of all, what does "now standing at just under 5ft tall" refer to? Also, is this even necessary? It seems rather trivial.

"Paige's school music teacher, Ann Hill, pushed her musical ability by casting her in Messiah and The Boy Mozart,[1] with Paige's first role being Susanna in a school production of Mozart's The Marriage of Figaro."

If she was already cast in Messiah and The Boy Mozart, wouldn't those be her first roles, instead of The Marriage of Figaro?

Early career-1980: West End debut and Evita

"After months of auditions, Hal Prince offered the still relatively unknown Paige the title role in Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber's first ever production of the musical Evita,which brought her into public prominence in 1978 when she was 30."

1. What kinds of auditions, or for what? 2. You should probably rephrase "in 1978 when she was 30". Maybe "in 1978 at the age of 30."

"About five years previous to Paige's role in Evita, she had almost been cast as the lead in The Rocky Horror Show instead of Covington in 1973."

This seems rather trivial, and unrelated to the other text.

1981-1990: Cats and Chess era

"The video, according to Paige's personal website, became the bestselling music video in the UK and America."

Why do you need to say "according to Paige's personal website"?

"The single reached number 5 in the UK charts and has since been covered by 160 artists."

What does "covered" mean?

"The song has a special connection with Paige, and she has said "It did something to me. I thought it was the most glorious melody."

If you say it has a "special connection", you should probably include her saying that. Otherwise, it's just a POV.

"From 1986 to 1987, Paige appeared as Florence in the musical Chess, (lyrics by Tim Rice, music by Benny Andersson and Björn Ulvaeus), a role she had originated for the 1984 RCA double-disc concept album."

Instead of using parentheses, just say "whose lyrics were written be Tim Rice, its music by Benny Andersson..." Or, make a whole new sentence for it.

1993-1999: Sunset Boulevard and Broadway debut

"In 1993, she embarked on a troubled run as famed French chanteuse Édith Piaf in Pam Gems' musical play, Piaf, to critical acclaim."

Why was it troubled? Maybe you should just removed the "troubled" part of it.

"On the Sunset Boulevard set in Broadway, the staircase steps reportedly had to be raised six inches in order to accomodate Paige's short stature, or it would have been hard to see her behind the banister."

Is this really necessary information? It seems rather trivial.

"Although she had been let down in the past when she hoped to perform on Broadway with Evita, Cats and Chess, the experience surpassed her expectations, and she stated "It was just the most perfect time to go with that particular show."

When you say it let her down, does that mean she didn't get to perform on Broadway with those shows? And what experience exactly are you talking about?

"Arts commentator Melvyn Bragg hosted a special edition of The South Bank Show about Paige's career in 1996, entitled The Faces of Elaine Paige. She made special recordings of some of her most famous songs exclusively for the programme, and the show is frequently shown on PBS in the United States."

All this could be referenced.

"In 1997 Paige made her United States concert debut when she opened the Boston Pop Season which was aired on WGBH in America, and the following year, she made a guest star appearance at the Andrew Lloyd Webber, 50th birthday celebration at the Royal Albert Hall."

There should be a comma after "1997" and "Season. Also, shouldn't you just say "Andrew Lloyd Webber's 50 brithday celebration"?

"Paige's next stint was acting in the straight play Le Misanthrope in 1998, but admitted that she did miss the musical element and the silence was slightly unsettling to her."

You should clarify what "straight" means.

2000—present

"Before the opening, the box office had already taken in excess of £4 million."

Is this necessary or relevant to her career?

"The show regularly attracts 3 million listeners, and occasional interviews are also featured, having included theatre impressario Cameron Mackintosh, actress Angela Lansbury, the Pet Shop Boys, Elton John and Gillian Lynne. In a less favorable review, the show was described by Elisabeth Mahoney of The Guardian as a "rare wrong move" on the part of Radio 2."

You should change "having included" to "including". Also, you the review is "less favorable", which is a comparative term, but you have nothing to compare it to (i.e. another review of the show).

"On 20 and 21 December 2006 Paige performed in concert in Shanghai.[50] Only one concert date was intended originally, but an extra one was added to keep up with the demand.[50] She has also appeared in concerts in Scandinavia, China, Hong Kong, Europe, the Middle East, New Zealand and Austrlia."

Shouldn't use just keep all the places in one list ("She has appeared in concerts in Shanghai, Scandinavia, China, etc.)?

Personal life

"In 1995, Paige was awarded the Order of the British Empire by Her Majesty the Queen for her contributions to musical theatre."

Shouldn't this be moved to somewhere in her career section? It is related to her career, after all.

Discography

These could possibly be organized into a table, as it might look better then.

Noble Story (talk) 01:51, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much for a detailed GA review. I've kept the details about Paige's height for now as I've highlighted that it has affected her career, in that she lost leading roles because of her height. About the almost casting in The Rocky Horror Show, I thought the detail might show how Paige's and Covington's careers have been intertwined almost? Everything else I've changed accordingly. If you feel there's anything that needs to be changed further, then please do so, or indicate it here. Eagle Owl (talk) 17:39, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Further GA comments

Lead

"Paige was raised in Barnet and after she attended Aida Foster stage school, she made her first professional appearance on stage in 1964."

You should specify where "Barnet" is (country, county, whatever).

"In 1981, she originated the role of Grizabella in Cats, and had a Top 10 hit with "Memory", a song from the show."

Clarify what originated means.

"Paige made her Broadway debut in Sunset Boulevard in 1996, when playing the lead role of Norma Desmond."

"When playing the lead role" is definitely ungrammatical.

"Away from the stage, Paige has released 20 solo albums, having had 8 consecutive gold and 4 multi-platinum albums."

I think you should change the verb from "having had" to something consistent with the first verb.

Background

"Her mother had been a singer in her youth and her father an amateur drummer, therefore Paige was surrounded by a great deal of jazz music."

I think this sentence still doesn't seem right. "Therefore" just doesn't seem quite the right word to use. In any case, is this really necessary?

"Paige originally wanted to become a professional tennis player, although her headmistress did point out to her "they'd never see you over the net,"but Paige has since referred to tennis as her "other great passion"."

I think you don't need to use "did point", probably just "pointed".

"Her father later suggested that she should go to drama school after recognizing her talent, so she thus attended the Aida Foster stage school."

I think you really don't need to use "thus". I think "thus" is a rather outdated word anyway.

"At 20,she made her West End debut in Hair on 27 September 1968 until March 1970, in which one scene required her to be naked on stage."

Is it really necessary to provide a reference to say she was 20?

"About five years previous to Paige's role in Evita, she had almost been cast as the lead in The Rocky Horror Show instead of Covington in 1973."

If you really need to keep this in, then move it to somewhere near the first mention of Covington.

"For her performance in Evita which spanned from 1978 to 1980, she won the Society of West End Theatre Award for Best Actress in a Musical and the Variety Club Award for Showbusiness Personality of the Year."

There should be a comma after "Evita."

1981-1990: Cats and Chess era

"Paige went on to portray some of Lloyd Webber's most notable female characters, being the first to play the role of Grizabella in the original production of Cats on 11 May 1981 running until 13 February 1982."

Try to make the verbs in consistent tense. Also, insert a comma after "1981".

"For the video release of Cats in 1998, Paige reprised her role of Grizabella, one of only two to return from London's original cast."

"One of only two" what?

"The video soon became the bestselling music video in the UK and America. Her performance of the song "Memory" from that show is her signature piece, with which she had a top ten hit. The single reached number 5 in the UK charts and has since been recorded by a further 160 artists."

The prose here is a little choppy. Try combining the sentences in some way.

"From 1986 to 1987, Paige appeared as Florence in the musical Chess, whose lyrics were written by Tim Rice, and the music by Ulvaeus and Andersson, a role she had originated for the 1984 RCA double-disc concept album."

To avoid confusion, try using something stronger than a comma. Example: From 1986 to 1987, Paige appeared as Florence in the musical Chess, whose lyrics were written by Tim Rice, and the music by Ulvaeus and Andersson; she originated the role for the 1984 RCA double-disc concept album. Or, try just split the sentence into two.

Also, see above about using the word "originate".

"The show was notable at the time for its set, which featured a large, tilting stage that resembled an illuminated chess board, with a proscenium built from television screens."

This could use a reference.

"The albums Stages, released in 1983, and Cinema, released in 1984, rejoined the cast recording of Chess in the UK top 40 chart, thus giving her three consecutive successful albums, followed by other albums including Love Hurts and Romance & the Stage."

If you look at the sentence construction closely, what you're really saying is that Stages and Cinema joined the cast in the UK top 40 chart. Is that really what you want to say?

Also, look above for my comment regarding using the word "thus". And, you should use a comma before "including". Plus, this sentence seems a bit of a run-on anyway.

1993-1999: Sunset Boulevard and Broadway debut

"For her role, she was nominated for an Olivier Award for Best Actress in a Musical, and subsequently brought out an album containing Edith Piaf songs."

I think you should add what the album was called.

"In 1995, Paige was awarded the Order of the British Empire by Her Majesty the Queen for her contributions to musical theatre."

This information is followed by something that took place in 1994. Move this somewhere else, so it's in chronological order.

"She was thus nominated for a Laurence Olivier Award in 1996 for Best Actress in a Musical."

Again, see what I said above about the using "thus."

"On the Sunset Boulevard set in Broadway, the staircase steps reportedly had to be raised six inches in order to accommodate Paige's short stature, or it would have been hard to see her behind the banister."

I asked this the first time, but I'll ask it again: Is this really necessary information?

"Even though Paige did not originate the role in Sunset Boulevard, she had been the first to sing one of the show's key songs, "With One Look", at Lloyd Webber's wedding to Madeleine Gurdon, although at the time it was called "Just One Glance."

Again, see above about using the word "originate." Also, when you look at the sentence closely, it really says "she had been the first to sing...at Lloyd Webber's wedding to Madeleine Gurdon." Was she the first to sing the song at any time, or was she just the first to sing it at his wedding?

"Paige's next stint was acting in the non-musical play Le Misanthrope in 1998, but admitted that she did miss the musical element and that the silence was slightly unsettling to her."

I don't think "stint" would be the proper word here. Try "role" or "job" or something like that.

2000—present

"Paige had actually turned down the offer the first time she was approached, but later admitted, in her own words, that she had "forgotten what a fantastic score it was."

If you include a quote from her, it's probably redundant to say that they were "her own words".

"During this period her mother was diagnosed with cancer. Despite Paige wanting to come out of the show, her mother remained persistent that Paige should continue until her contract had finished. Paige's sister, Marion Billings, admitted "That was very hard for Elaine, having to go on stage night after night knowing she wanted to be with Mum."

Shouldn't this be moved to her personal life section?

"The episode of Marple was watched by 7.78 million, and Where the Heart Is by 6.34 million."

Is it really relevant to her life how many people watched the two episodes?

"The album includes popular songs from musicals identified by a poll on her radio show, in which 400,000 listeners voted."

First of all, I think you should keep the tense in the past. Also, is it really relevant that 400,000 voted?

"Paige has recorded 20 solo albums in total, having had 8 consecutive gold and 4 multi-platinum albums, and has been featured on 7 cast albums."

Keep the tense consistent.

"More recently she has collaborated with Secret Garden in recording the song "The Things You Are to Me" for their 2007 album Inside I'm Singing."

Put a comma after "recently" and after "album."

"She has appeared in concerts in Scandinavia, Hong Kong, Europe, the Middle East, New Zealand and Austrlia, and on 20 and 21 December 2006 Paige performed in concert in Shanghai. Only one concert date in Shanghai was intended originally, but an extra one was added to keep up with the demand."

Why is it especially important that she performed two days in Shanghai?

"In 2007, Paige returned to the West End stage for the first time in six years, in a lead role in the run of the Canadian musical comedy The Drowsy Chaperone at London's Novello Theatre. Previews started on 14 May and the first show was held on 6 June, but the show was cancelled after 96 performances. The producers announced that even though the theatre had been booked until 28 February 2008, the show would close prematurely on 4 August 2007, less than two months after it opened, because "London ticket sales have been slower than needed to sustain a longer run..." The Stage wrote "… shows in London can run safely … at lower capacities than they require on Broadway to stay afloat. But, as the transfer of The Drowsy Chaperone has just proved, sometimes even a Tony-winning Broadway hit can't even achieve that."

Do you really need to go into all that detail about it being cancelled? Can't you just say that it was cancelled, period?

"On 28 July 2007, Paige appeared on a special celebrity version of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? with Michael Ball to raise money for their chosen charity. With a combined effort they raised £64,000."

Try combining the two sentences.

That's about all for now. As I said, the lists at the end of the article need to be made into tables, but I see that effort is already starting. Noble Story (talk) 12:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Just a few details I've decided not to change:

• The word originate I thought was quite self-explanatory; I saw it as a better way of stating "she was the first to portray....." The New York Times used the word, so I thought it would be acceptable for the article.
• Secondly I think the bit about the albums in the chart is fine, as it states "rejoined the cast recording" and not just "the cast".
• The reference to the Broadway set is not only an interesting detail, but demonstrates further the effect her height has had.
• Furthermore, I've given much thought as to where the information about Paige's mother's cancer should be placed. Even though Paige's own battle with cancer is cited under "personal life", I think her mother's cancer battle serves its purpose better where it is for now, although, I'll admit, I'm still not sure.
• The viewing figures I think should stay, as Paige does not often appear on television series. *The 400,000 votes shows the interest the album generated from the audience.
• Lastly, the only reason I've gone into more detail about the Shanghai concert is that is the only one I could find more information on. Everything else I've altered as recommended. Eagle Owl (talk) 15:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Final GA Review

Review of Elaine Paige

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

The only thing I would say for improvement is to change all the lists at the end of the article to tables. However, as it now stands, this article is a Good Article. Congratulations Noble Story (talk) 04:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks for your time and suggestions. Eagle Owl (talk) 14:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Times url

I've restored the url for the time being. A search - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sitesearch.do?query=elaine+paige+lupus&hitsperpage=10&nextOffset=0&offset=0&leftStartIndex=1&leftEndIndex=10&submitStatus=searchFormSubmitted&mode=simple&sectionId=674&x=28&y=13 still returns that article on the same url, so it's probably just a temporary glitch. David Underdown (talk) 17:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)