Talk:Earthling (album)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mujinga (talk · contribs) 21:28, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Overview

Hi zmbro, I'll take this on for review as part of the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Good_articles/GAN_Backlog_Drives/January_2022 Mujinga (talk) 21:28, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for an enjoyable read! Bowie was such a freak (in the best possible way). Earwig gives no copyvio concerns, referencing is topnotch, article is stable, neutral broad and focused. Some queries on prose below. Mujinga (talk) 08:39, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Pix appropriate, relevant and correctly licensed so back to @Zmbro: for responses Mujinga (talk) 08:45, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Cool nearly there now, just one query still open on prose and a few clarifications on prose2 Mujinga (talk) 09:55, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Mujinga Should be all taken care of. Thanks again for reviewing! – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:58, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

nice one congrats on another excellent article. (and now i'm listening to bowie again!) Mujinga (talk) 15:10, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Prose

• i made a few copyedits as i went, please check them
• Alan Yentob can be linked

• Done

• Also recorded around May was an untitled piece containing the lyric "dead men don't talk" that, like "Telling Lies", pre-dated the Earthling material - what's the significance of this? did it then become the track "Dead Man Walking""

• No, it's different. I added it because I think it relates to the Earthling material, like "Telling Lies". – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 23:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

• ok thanks for clarification Mujinga (talk) 08:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

• Looking Glass Studios can be linked

• That's a game developer and not the same thing as this. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 23:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

• whoops that's sloppy of me, i meant to delete that after reading the talkpage discussion Mujinga (talk) 08:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

• Plati co-wrote several tracks and, along with Gabrels, were credited as co-producers, while Bowie himself mostly self-produced; it was his first self-produced record since Diamond Dogs (1974).[11] - this reads a bit garbled, can you rephrase?

• That better? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 23:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

• so now we have - Plati co-wrote several tracks and, along with Gabrels, were credited as co-producers. Bowie himself mostly self-produced, making it his first self-produced record since Diamond Dogs (1974).[11] He explained: "I knew exactly what I wanted. We didn't have any time to pull in a co-producer ... so I just sort of went for it."[5]
• i'd suggest - Plati co-wrote several tracks and, along with Gabrels, was credited as co-producer. Bowie himself mostly self-produced, making it his first self-produced record since Diamond Dogs (1974).[11] He explained: "I knew exactly what I wanted. We didn't have any time to pull in a co-producer ... so I just sort of went for it."[5] - also "making it his first self-produced record since Diamond Dog" just seems weird to me when you've just said there were other producers ... "giving him his first self-production credit since Diamond Dog" maybe? although i have no idea here how often he self-produces, i would imagine a lot. do you need the diamond dog clause? Mujinga (talk) 08:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
• Still open Mujinga (talk) 09:51, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• "Bowie himself mostly self-produced, making it his first self-produced record since Diamond Dogs (1974).[11] He explained: "I knew exactly what I wanted. We didn't have any time to pull in a co-producer ... so I just sort of went for it."[5] Nevertheless, Plati and Gabrels were both credited as co-producers, while the former co-wrote several tracks.[11]" How's that? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:18, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

•  Done Mujinga (talk) 15:02, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• using an improved version of the cut-up program used for Outside - program makes me think of computers, would method work better?

• It actually was a computer program used – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 23:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

• ah thanks for clarification, maybe add "computer" then Mujinga (talk) 08:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

• Done

• "Once we developed a kind of mattress, then I would go into the studio and just free-associate against that." - mattress? i mean, anything is possible with bowie but it seems a weird word choice

• I agree but I mean, it is the word he used. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 23:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

• just wanted to check that since it seemed to random, thanks Mujinga (talk) 08:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

• He and Bowie used a technique they previously used for Outside - two times "used"

• Changed second one to 'utilised'

• 120 beats per minute which were then sped up to 160 bpm - suggest 120 beats per minute (bpm) which were then sped up to 160 bpm

• Oops. Fixed

• Outtakes from the sessions included remakes of the Tin Machine tracks "Baby Universal", which was played on stage earlier in the year, and "I Can't Read", which was replaced by "The Last Thing You Should Do". The latter appeared on the soundtrack for the 1997 film The Ice Storm,[3][5] while both later appeared on the Is It Any Wonder? EP in 2020. = "both later appeared" is a bit confusing, do you mean "Baby Universal" and "I Can't Read", or "I Can't Read" and "The Last Thing You Should Do" ?

• Ope I must have misread that initially. Clarified.

• was a last minute addition, being added at Bowie's insistence - two "add"s

• "was added in the last minute at Bowie's insistence" that better? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 23:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

• great! Mujinga (talk) 08:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

• Bowie's uncertainty about his own British identity,[27] as he had not lived in Britain for two decades - suggest Bowie's uncertainty about his own British identity,[27] as he had not lived in the UK for two decades

• Done

• which he interpreted after hearing the piece himself on CD - suggest which he interpreted after hearing it played on a CD

• Done

• stopping here for now Mujinga (talk) 22:28, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
  • continuing Mujinga (talk) 08:03, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Prose2

• The photograph was taken by Frank Ockenfels in New York, which was sent to computer designer Dave De Angelis in England, who created the final cover. - suggest The photograph was taken by Frank Ockenfels in New York, then was sent to computer designer Dave De Angelis in England, who created the final cover.

• Done

• "rightest" - again can i check the quote here? rightist seems more logical

• Yep it's definitely that. Done. Sometimes I think Safari's autocorrect does these things xP – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 19:39, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• there was widespread media attention surrounding the date, both before and after. - suggest cut "both before and after"

• Done

• "the Union Jack embroiled itself into fashion" reads weird, do you mean it became fashionable?

• Yep, changed

• "he conducted a concert in" - i prefer another word for conducted which makes me think he was the conductor - curated maybe?

• Yeah that's better, also works since I used 'conducted' in the prior sentence

• "number five in Belgium Wallonia and Sweden" suggest number five in Belgian Wallonia and Sweden - since Wallonia is in Belgium

• Done

• " positively compared Earthling to Prodigy and the Chemical Brothers' concurrent releases The Fat of the Land and Dig Your Own Hole, respectively" - it's the Prodigy and not sure if you need "respectively"

• D'oh, fixed. And we can keep respectively since that's grammatically appropriate. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 19:39, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• Other reviewers expressed more mixed assessments. Kemp felt the music lacked innovation,[11] while Deluca felt that Bowie was "jumping on the electronica bandwagon".[58] - this feels a bit strange since you've just quoted kemp and deluca saying favourable things and now in a new paragraph they are being more measured, maybe better to combine their quotes together

• Do you mean in this para or give all their thoughts at once and not separately? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 19:39, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• yeah i think all at once is better, otherwise it seems like they are being quoted twice with different opinions Mujinga (talk) 09:52, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• How's that look? I also separated the tables since there is enough there to do so (match OK Computer). – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:58, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• looks great now! Mujinga (talk) 15:05, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• "although the latter reversed their opinion by July" suggest although the latter reversed its opinion by July

• Done

• Bowie maintained a relatively large media profile throughout 1997. That year, he garnered attention when he earned substantial wealth through the use of "Bowie Bonds", a type of celebrity bond that were issued against Bowie's future royalties from his back catalogue over the next ten years.[78] Upon purchase of the sale, which earned him $55 million, Bowie became the first rock musician to engage in such a deal, predating future endeavors by artists such as Elton John. - this reads a bit weird to me ... relatively large compared to what?, through the use / through the sale?, for "a type of celebrity bond that were" suggest "a celebrity bond that was", "Upon purchase of the sale, which earned him $55 million, Bowie became the first rock musician to engage in such a deal" suggest "Bowie was the first rock musician to do such a thing and it earned him $55 million"

• Changed to "Throughout 1997, Bowie garnered attention when he earned substantial wealth through the sale of "Bowie Bonds", a celebrity bond that was issued against Bowie's future royalties from his back catalogue over the next ten years.[74] Bowie was the first rock musician to engage in such a deal, predating future endeavors by artists such as Elton John, and it earned him $55 million." per your requests and sources. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:43, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• if we now have retrospective reviews, should the reviews above from 2000 be here as well?

• Your thoughts on the "Other reviewers expressed more mixed assessments" point should be able to help resolve this. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 19:56, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• replied above Mujinga (talk) 09:54, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• Resolved. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:58, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• 107 "British album certifications – David Bowie – Earthling". British Phonographic Industry.Select albums in the Format field. Select Silver in the Certification field. Type Earthling in the "Search BPI Awards" field and then press Enter. - so i do this but no stat comes up, so im wondering where 60,000 comes from.. the note on that says "Shipments figures based on certification alone." but where is that sourced to? hope that makes sense!

• It shows for me when i type 'earthling' into 'Search BPI Awards' – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 19:56, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• do you see the 60,000 figure though? i don't. i also can't verify the 100,000 figure on the japanese site Mujinga (talk) 09:54, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• No but I believe those are the figures the templates themselves generate, as when looking at the coding there isn't a figure listed. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:58, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
• oh i finally understand, silver = above 60,000 sales per https://www.bpi.co.uk/brit-certified/award-levels/. that could perhaps be made clearer bit it's not a pass/fail issue Mujinga (talk) 15:09, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

• "primarily criticises its emphasis on" suggest "criticised its emphasis on"

• Done

• "Pegg and Spitz argue that, despite being recorded in America and with American players" suggest "Pegg and Spitz argue that, despite being recorded in America and with American musicians"

• Done