Talk:Dan Antopolski/Archive 1

Archive 1

COI fingerprints all over this

Danantopolski, please leave the article alone. All unsourced listings of performances will be removed. As I've explained at the subject's talk page, and noted in a report at the BLP noticeboard, this is so not the place to post one's resume. 2601:188:1:AEA0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 15:20, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Under construction

Yintan I noticed that you placed a construction tag and have begun to provide references to this article. Though I do feel that your attempts are in good faith, in reviewing many of them, I can't help but wonder if they are doing more harm than good at this point. Since the article has no actual biographical content for inline citations, merely placing references that do not corroborate dated performances within templates may not be the best strategy; especially when those references do not support the claims.

• The Guardian article supports no claim for or mention of these: Radio Jigsaw (six episodes Series 2) (Radio 4) (2014) / Live Shows Jigsaw: Jiggle It, Edinburgh Festival, 2013 Sketch show with Tom Craine and Nat Luurtsema / Jigsaw: Gettin' Jiggy, Edinburgh Festival, 2012 Sketch show with Tom Craine and Nat Luurtsema. Therefore, should not remain.

• The Observer is not a review of the subject or an interview by a secondary source. It is a press release for an appearance. The information gathered is the same as a biography on a performer's website. Absolutely nothing within the "article" can be seen as reliable since it is gathered information directly from the source. "He won Perrier Award nominations at the Edinburgh Festival for his own show and as part of Lee Mack’s Show", "As a comic actor, Dan has starred as Jeffers in two series of the cult BBC Two sci-fi spoof Hyperdrive. His other TV credits include The Stand-Up Show (BBC One), The Live Floor Show (BBC Two), The Perrier Awards (Channel 4), Time Gentlemen Please (Sky One) and The World Comedy Series (Paramount Comedy channel/Comedy Central)", "He was also nominated for the Perrier Best Newcomer Award and has won the BBC New Comedy Award. He is now a regular face on CBBC, playing the central character in The Dare Devil" and "Dan has also appeared in the international blockbuster movie, The Da Vinci Code" are biographical program information lines. Hence the last: "This will be the first show by a comedian at the Kino-Teatr since it opened last July with others being lined up for future dates. Performance at 7.30pm. Tickets £8 from www.kino-teatr.co.uk or on the door." BTW IMDB does not list said actor as having appeared in "The DaVinci Code". So "The Observer" can not be seen a reliable source for this article.

• The Guardian link in reference #6 Rebecca Lovell: "Seasoned fringe standup Dan Antopolski explains how bitching about his colleagues and being a 'low-intensity, mellow pub drunk' gets him through a month of Edinburgh shows" is incompatible: No compatible source was found for this video.

These are just a few.

Over all, in studying all the references thus far, the articles should be reduced to a biographical career section that states only the following:

• Dave Award for Best Joke at the 2009 Edinburgh Festival Fringe (reference #9)
• Jigsaw, Edinburgh Festival, 2011 Sketch show with Tom Craine and Nat Luurtsema (reference #3)
• Turn Of The Century, Edinburgh Festival, 2010 Solo Stand-Up Show (reference #5) blog is unnecessary
• The Dinks 2: Mouthbreathin’, Edinburgh Festival, 2004 Stand-Up with Craig Campbell and Tony Law (reference #7)
• Lee Mack’s New Bits, Edinburgh Festival, 2000 Sketch show with Lee Mack and Catherine Tate (reference #8)
• It's All Gone Pete Tong (2004) (Eric Banning) (reference #11)
• Jigsaw (six episodes Series 2) (Radio 4) (2014) (reference #10)

Unfortunately, with the loss of reference #1, such awards as BBC New Comedy Award and Perrier Best Newcomer Award cannot be confirmed at this time. Sections such as Radio, Television, Awards and Live Shows (if / once reliable sources are found) can be included in career. There simply is not enough for templates at this time. The article would look much better as a biography. IMHO. Maineartists (talk) 00:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

A little more time to work on this would have been appreciated. I fully agree that there should be more text and less lists, as I said on his Talk, but I do have to sleep at night. Yintan  13:10, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

With all due respect, @Yintan: an article page is not the place to do one's homework in a trial and error format. I sleep, too, but you took the reigns on this with not only the subject but the page itself and began editing with unreliable sources, moving toward a more cluttered and non-sourced format. We're all trying to what is best here. I too am gathering and assembling; but off the grid before I initiate. I have yet to touch the page. The best situation for all is for you to advise the subject once again that in the best interest for all, that he cease to edit his own page. It is detrimental for those who are trying to better the look and content. Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 13:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

@Maineartists: I already have advised him that. Also, copied the article to my sandbox. Yintan  13:26, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Agreed that this will work better in prose than list format, and that passing mentions and press releases as references don't necessarily mean that a performance merits inclusion. It looks like the unsourced list format has been here for ten years, so unless Mr. Antopolski was editing as an IP in 2006, I apologize for implying that the problems are his doing. In the end much of the performance listings will be winnowed out in favor of sourced biographical information--that's what ought to take precedence. That said, I do think it's fair to allow Yintan some time to work on this. 2601:188:1:AEA0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 00:59, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

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Subject editing

@Yintan: Since you have invited the subject of this page to a Teahouse discussion (and spoken with him on his talk page) in hopes that knowledge of how the inner-workings of WP are better explained; I highly suggest that you advise the subject to not continually edit this page as he is so doing presently. Your hinting that it is okay for a subject to edit his own page is proactive in this situation: "I don't think there will be a problem if you just add reliable sources and citations but yes, you will be watched closely." When the proper suggestion would have been to raise any concerns on the talk page and present a reliable source for consensus of inclusion. The subject presently does not know how to monitor himself correctly; nor distinguish between reliable sources and non-reliable sources. I personally feel you need to address the above source contentions before you continue to edit, too. IMHO ~ Best. Maineartists (talk) 12:52, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Agreed, I have made a start by removing a table and replacing with prose for the notable awards leaving out the nominations etc. Theroadislong (talk) 12:55, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Theroadislong. I, too, am searching for better reliable sources to keep much of the more notable inclusions for a biographical article; but reference #1 is not reliable. It is a press release associated with the subject. The Observer is reliable, the press release is not. It needs to be removed from the article as a whole. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 13:08, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

@Maineartists:@Theroadislong: As I said above, a little more time to work on this would have been appreciated. I do have to sleep at night. I agree that references are far from perfect at the moment, that's why I added the Under Construction template. Anyway, I'll move the article to my Sandbox and work on it there. Probably a better solution. Yintan  13:13, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

To reiterate and perhaps sharpen what I wrote here yesterday, lists of appearances are a distraction from and substitute for the real issue, biographical content. My search turned up little, except perhaps for a newspaper article that appeared to be tucked behind a paywall. Any expansion of the biography will necessarily improve the article. Regardless, let's lose the lists and keep sourced awards and mention of a few sourced tv and film appearances in prose form. This shouldn't require a great deal of discussion or be the least bit controversial. Thanks, 2601:188:1:AEA0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 13:15, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Which makes me think, while my intent in bringing this to the BLP noticeboard was in part to discourage the subject from editing the article, he may be able to provide us with helpful information. Perhaps Mr. Antopolski has published biographical content from WP:RELIABLE sources that we haven't accessed yet, and can share them on this talk page. 2601:188:1:AEA0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 13:24, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

I agree 2601:188:1:AEA0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63. I've actually been enjoying finding more sources for this article that better articulate and expanded upon the subject. Maineartists (talk) 13:30, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Good. That's how it was handled when years ago an administrator created an article about me here--I didn't write a word, but was able to provide references and additional reading beyond what was readily accessible online. 2601:188:1:AEA0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 13:54, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Tables

Suggest moving tables to the talk page rather than deleting them entirely. For editors new to the page, this will give them the opportunity to reinstate notable inclusions if / when they should find proper reliable sources in the future. Maineartists (talk) 13:27, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

• Tables are being removed without reinstating notable sourced works; or at least archiving them here. Please keep these within the article once the biographical section is installed: 1) Jigsaw (12 episodes Series 1 and 2) (Radio 4) (2014) 2) Jigsaw, Edinburgh Festival, 2011 Sketch show with Tom Craine and Nat Luurtsema 3) Silent But Deadly, Edinburgh Festival, 2009 Solo Stand-Up Show 4) Lee Mack’s New Bits, Edinburgh Festival, 2000 Sketch show with Lee Mack and Catherine Tate 5) Jigsaw, Edinburgh Festival, 2011 Sketch show with Tom Craine and Nat Luurtsema; as these are reliably sourced. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 14:31, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

I restored the removed stuff, so people can at least work on it. Blindly deleting referenced material is rather blunt. Yintan  14:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)