Talk:Dalek variants/Archive 1

I removed this from the page

I removed the following from the page:

The Dalek Lieutenant from Dr Who & The Daleks has also made a guest appearance in a web-series episode of BUCKY O' HARE, at http://www.geocities.com/bohweb/vengeance.txt

Reason: I don't think we should be using Wiki to promote fanfic. Samboy 02:47, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Video on YouTube

I saw this home video about furbies being beseiged by Daleks, with Cybermen as their agents. one of te funniest bits was the Supreme Dalek, under the guise of "The President of Skaro" was attacking the population via president's float in the president's birthday parade. you should watch it, it's hilarious! go to http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=t6odm7H1Cvw to see it.

- Furbydude

Colours?

Should mention be made of the colour system in use in the earlier films? Black for supreme is here, but red was certainly military and blue, iirc, was 'scientist' of some kind.

The earlier films aren't (by any stretch) canon - we do mention that they were painted in a variety of bright colours under "Standard Dalek", but don't go beyond that. --khaosworks 05:11, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Black/Supreme Dalek

Was the Black/Supreme Dalek in Mission to the Unknown or The Daleks' Master Plan and if not, who was leading them then because it isn't mentioned on this page? --GingerM 19:10, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

It was the Dalek Supreme. -khaosworks 19:32, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

May I ask. Is the identifcation of early dalek ep of the "black daleks" being the supreme dalek an interpretion, or something stated in a dalek ep of doctor who...if so in what story lines? In Resurrection of the Daleks, its very clear that the "supreme dalek" reffers to the leader of all the daleks, and I suggest the very title "THE supreme dalek" might indicate (but not prove) that he is in fact the leader of all daleks? The article does seem to argee in part with whats been put forth - namely that the supreme dalek as in some story lines been ID as the daleks leader, but I am wondering if "black dalek" = supreme dalek is an interpretion? If so then while its true that black daleks = dalek of rank, a commander... "the black dalek need not equal the supreme dalek". It might also be put forward, that the supreme dalek might well be "a black dalek" - but not all black daleks are "THE black dalek of excellence", or the supreme dalek (and i suggest the supreme dalek, might be a black dalek "voted" in a dalek supreme. Maybe the confusion could be dissolved ploit wise by being more general (in respect to "gray daleks".... merely by saying a black/white/silver or gold dalek, is a dalek of notable rank. The leader of all daleks, has been at times been ID-ed as the emporer, and at times been refered to as the supreme dalek. In many ways one might veiw the dalek command structure like acient rome... that the emporer was not always "the leader of all". I think this interrpetion as a lot going for it, after all. The planet of the daleks refers to a council of daleks, presumably... having members of black daleks as its members, and one can have both emporer daleks and supreme daleks existing (and the supreme dalek) at the same time. With either the supreme dalek or the emperor of being of higher "rank". Given the doomsdsay ep, the cult of skaro's importance, with a (note - not THE) black dalek in control. This seems to imply this possibility. - danny -

'Remembrance' Photo

Image:Dalekfire.jpg A standard, "renegade" Dalek firing its weapon, from Remembrance of the Daleks.

I must say I find the photo I've included here, currently used in the article, really jarring in the way the energy ray, death ray, exterminator ray or whatever you want to call it, is emanating from the weapon at an angle. I don't have an appropriate replacement for it unfortunately, but I'd like to see it replaced personally jamesgibbon 12:57, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've replaced it with another shot which looks slightly better. Ideally, I'd have liked one from the new series, but there are no shots with a full-body Dalek seen firing its weapon (except at the start of The Parting of the Ways, but the effect is spoiled because the beams impact on the TARDIS force field). --khaosworks 13:25, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

Nice! More than slightly better, I think. Personally, while I like the new Dalek design, I think that older, more 'classic' designs should be represented too. Cheers jamesgibbon 14:52, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Does a shot really NEED to be full-body tho Khaos? There are certainly upper-body shots of Dalek's firing (straight) in the new series, and there are full-body shots elsewhere in the article. - SoM 21:58, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I just like the idea of showing it in relation to the whole Dalek, especially early on in the article. It's also an issue of aesthetics — none of the screenshots I've taken look quite "right" to me, and in the end I think it's nice to see a "classic" Dalek do its thing. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:29, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Flying Daleks

I'm a little concerned about the note that "Daleks can fly." The wording makes it sound like they've always been able to conquer stairs. Is that true, or should it be worded to note that they developed levitation? --Joe Sewell 16:55, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, as usual the evidence is equivocal. We see Daleks moving on upper levels as early as The Chase, with no readily apparent explanation of how they got there. However, there were also a few stories in which their inability to climb stairs was a plot point (the Doctor even remarked on it in Destiny of the Daleks). Should we perhaps say, "...some Daleks can fly"? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know that "fly" is really the operative word; it seems to suggest a different mode of propulsion and travel. Surely the Daleks are merely hovering? Or, well, LE-VI-TATing. They're not exactly aerodynamic. They don't soar. They just... rise up, then bumble forward as if they were on the ground. --71.139.18.66 01:42, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

In Evolution of the Daleks, they're seen swooping and strafing the Hooverville encampment quite aerobatically. They're definitely flying, aerodynamic or not. With regard to the Fourth Doctor's supposed taunting of the Daleks for their inability to climb, while the authoral intent is clearly to take the Mickey, the scene can easily be interpreted as the Doctor taunting the Daleks over their inability to wriggle through a small gap. There's plenty of on-screen evidence to suggest that they've never had a problem with stairs. In The Chase and Evil of the Daleks they're seen moving around in multi-storey structures with no problems, and they easily navigate both the bed of the river Thames and the bombed-out ruins of London in The Dalek Invasion of Earth, neither of which are anything like flat. Doctortoc 18:45, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and its true about plot points. However its a worthy note to make that tom bakers doctor, had slowed the development of the daleks by at least a 1000 yrs. Thus having a significant effect on the time/plot line. (and darvos, the creator of the daleks lives) However how do you justify the daleks dependency of an "anti-gravity" disk (that is not intergrated onto the dalek bodies) in planet of the daleks?(pertwee's doctor). I disagree with the "aerodynamic" point of being of any fundermental issue, dispite being true - manily because how they "fly" is reflective of there motion on the ground. (would you say helicopters don't fly? - for sake of analogy) - Danny -

Cult of Skaro Daleks

Do the Daleks of the Cult of Skaro really need seperate entries? I can imagine we add Sec to the villains, but I don't see a need for the other Daleks to have a seperate page.

The individual pages are up for AfD, and look likely to be turned into redirects. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I have a question, or rather a statement.

You have no way of knowing if the daleks of the cult of skaro was sucked into the void (unless you saw them in slow motion on your recorder). IF so then its possible that the temp shift, shifted not just sek. (possibliy other daleks two)

- danny

A good point, and I've edited the section accordingly. (By the way, Danny, you can sign your posts by typing four tildes, like this: ~~~~.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:22, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the Cult need a page of their own

So Do I, I Tryed but Failed: Use this as a text Template: (==Cult of Skaro==

• Image:Dalekreturn.JPG The Cult of Skaro, led by Dalek Sec, emerge from the void ship

First appearing in Army of Ghosts and fully introduced in Doomsday, the Cult of Skaro are an elite order of Daleks (described by the Doctor as an elite organisation which supersedes even the Emperor of the Daleks) who are assigned to think as their enemies think and find new ways of killing them - and surviving. This even extends to them developing imaginations and taking on individual names. Four of these Daleks (Dalek Thay, Dalek Caan, Dalek Jast and a Black Dalek named Dalek Sec) escaped the end of the Time War in a void ship along with a captured Time Lord prison ship containing millions of Daleks, which they called the Genesis Ark. These Daleks were particularly ruthless but were frightened when Rose told them about the Doctor. They demonstrated the ability to extract information from living brains through the use of their suction cups, although it also killed the person. The Doctor caused the Daleks released from the Genesis Ark to be sucked back into the Void, but Sec and the rest of the Cult of Skaro managed to initiate an emergency temporal shift to 1930s New York City. The Cult believe they are the last four Daleks in existence; whether this is the case remains to be seen.

The Cult of Skaro returned in Daleks in Manhattan. Operating from a laboratory underneath the Empire State Building, the Cult use "Pig-slaves" to capture people for their experiments. As the last of their race the Cult's situation has become desperate, with Dalek Thay sacrificing his rear casing for construction of a device at the top of the building. Dalek Sec questions the genetic superiority of the Daleks race. He proposes creation of a Hybrid Dalek which they hope will combine the best traits of both humans and daleks. In Evolution of the Daleks Sec was removed from command by Dalek Caan, before being accidently exterminated by Jast, sacrificing himself to save The Doctor. The Dalek Humans exterminated Thay and Jast soon after. Dalek Caan initated a temporal shift and became the sole survivor.

Dalek Sec

• Image:Dalek_Sec.jpg Dalek Sec in 1930s New York City

Dalek Sec was the leader of the Cult of Skaro and the first individual Dalek to become a recurring character along with the rest of the Cult of Skaro (strictly speaking, Davros was a Kaled). He was first shown in Army of Ghosts / Doomsday and re-appeared in Daleks in Manhattan / Evolution of the Daleks. As a member of the Cult, Dalek Sec had a more human way of thinking (including imagination), designed to determine how an enemy might think. Sec escaped the Time War with the rest of the Cult and was the leader of the Dalek attack during the Battle of Canary Wharf. He escaped the Void by initiating an Emergency Temporal Shift. Along with the rest of the Cult of Skaro, he ended up in New York in 1930 and established a base beneath the Empire State Building.

Taking control of the Empire State construction and forcibly converting humans into "pig slaves" to serve as a labour force, the Cult of Skaro also worked on experiments designed to evolve Dalek-kind into a new form. The Cult recruited the help of the power-hungry Mr Diagoras, who seemed to think like a Dalek the most. Sec turned against the concept of Dalek genetic purity, viewing survival as more important and seeing human DNA as holding useful attributes, as the humans thrive as a species whereas the Daleks become extinct. Using himself and Mr Diagoras as the test for the Final Experiment, he was transformed into the first Hybrid Dalek. While in his new body he began to see differently about Daleks and requested the Doctor to assist him with using the human bodies they had for the new bodies and started to express his feelings that the Dalek creator was wrong and decided to have the new race live on being different from the Daleks as if they continued trying to be superior they would eventualy die. However eventually the other Daleks came to see Sec's theories as being insuperior and eventualy betrayed him while Dalek Caan took control and fueled the other human bodies with only Dalek DNA. Once the Daleks tracked the Doctor down they took Sec with them. After Sec said to his former comrades that if they continued on with the killing and destruction they would eventually meet their own destruction as well, with this the two Daleks killed him. On his death, the Doctor called him the "cleverest Dalek ever."

Dalek Sec appears to be biologicaly different from most Daleks, having long green tentacles and being capable of engulfing an adult human in a membrane-like casing. However it is possible that all members of the Cult of Skaro possessed these differences as they were not regular Daleks.It may be that all Daleks were/are the same as the Cult of Skaro Daleks. Dalek Sec began to become more and more human, the D.N.A making him question the Dalek ideals. He wanted to make Daleks more human, make them peaceful and prevent the extermination of other life forms. The rest of the Cult of Skaro quickly turned on him when he made this plan clear, chaining him up, while Dalek Caan took command of the cult. Dalek Sec was killed when he threw himself in the path an energy beam aimed at the Doctor to save his life.

Human Dalek

• Image:Humandalek.jpg Dalek Sec As Human.

The 2007 episode Daleks in Manhattan shows the creation of a Human Dalek, through a genetic treatment and a mutagenic solution that allows a Dalek to absorb a human and merge with it.

Although the line between Humans and Daleks has been blurred before, most notably in the serials Evil of the Daleks and Revelation of the Daleks and mentioned in The Parting of the Ways, this episode is the first to show this new form of hybrid.

The Dalek casing is used as a cocoon during the process, which takes approximately twenty minutes. When the fusion is complete, the casing's eye stalk dims and opens to allow the human to exit, now with Dalek physical traits such as rough, clammy skin, a single eye, tentacles surrounding the head in a pattern similar to dreadlocks, and a bulbous, exposed brain. It has the same speech pattern as a normal Dalek (short syllables, raising pitch of voice at ends of sentences) with the voice of the absorbed human. Besides that, the Human Dalek appears to roughly retain a human's height, weight, and base physiology. The advantages of this form over the original are, as yet, unclear. The hybrid was killed in Evolution of the Daleks during a mutiny after the hybrid showed emotions Daleks did not have.

In addition, Dalek 'ideas' were placed into blank humans to create what was called a 'Dalek Human'. These were killed by Dalek Caan before he escaped.

Dalek Caan

Dalek Caan was one of the Cult of Skaro, and second in command to Dalek Sec. He fought in the Battle of Canary Wharf, and escaped with the rest of the Cult. When Dalek Sec decided to make the Dalek Humans more human, he overthrew Sec and took command of the Cult. When Daleks Jast and Thay were destroyed, making Caan the last Dalek alive, he destroyed the Dalek Humans and initated another emergancy shift, escaping once more. He is to be seen again in the second seiries of torchwood as a white and gold dalek , the doctor will also star and caan will suck the power to regenerate out ofhim, but who knows which episode???

Pepperpots

Both this article and the main Dalek one describe daleks as looking like salt / pepper shakers. I know it's a traditional shorthand, and one well worth mentioning, but can anyone come up with a more appropriate description of their shape? I know I've never seen a pepperpot that looks much like a dalek; and while there are photos, not all readers will use the standard visual presentation of wikipedia. I'll try to think of something myself. Chris Thornett 17:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Self-referencing

Encyclopedic style specifically opposes the use of self-referencing phrases like "this article" in an encyclopedia article. I'm removing it from the start of the article, rephrasing the sentence. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 22:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Categories

Do you think we should install the Daleks into the category of Fictional demons? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.241.27 (talk) 11:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

I don't think so. They're not demons, they're just really mean. ^DAVID _CAT 15:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Cult of Skaro

According to this article, they are called Dalek Thay, Dalek Caan, Dalek Rabe, and a black Dalek named Dalek Sec. "Dalek" has them as Dalek "Thay", Dalek "Caan", Dalek "Jast" and Dalek "Sec". (The difference being one has Jast and one has Rabe.) Which is right? If this isn't corrected by the time I've got to that DVD, I'll do it myself - I'm watching the series right now. I'm on the first Cyberman episode...:p 88.109.69.0 15:09, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

A Black Dalek (allegedly Sec) appears in the "Season 3" Trailer, as shown on the BBC after the 2006 Christmas special. -- Simon Cursitor 10:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

So, what is the answer? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.21.166.50 (talk • contribs) 18:50, March 25, 2007 (UTC)

The original script had "Rabe", but this was changed to "Jast" in the final dub. Some publications, which were working from the script, used "Rabe", but "Jast" is what was used on-air, so that's what we should use. (I got confused recently and made the wrong change at Doomsday (Doctor Who) — sorry.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:13, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Hemispheres on Daleks

I had a very different POV of the hemispheres when I watched Dalek. The hemispheres provide the 'force field' that defends the Dalek. These were used to contain the explosion when the Dalek self destructed so it wouldn't kill Rose. I feel this makes much more sense than the statement: "However, in Dalek (2005) they are part of a self-destruct system." Unless there is a statement from the writer that backs this statement, I would remove it or clarify it (or add the reference if it exists). I cannot believe the hemispheres are there just in case the Dalek decides it needs to self destruct. The 'force-field' theory while also just a theory seems to make more sense to me. -- [Random Dr Who Fan ] March 14, 2007

Just for the record that is how I saw it too. It also looks like a 'force field' goes up around the Dalek as it explodes. ≈ Seraph 13:22, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Me too I'll edit it. 90.212.39.179 (talk) 20:32, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Dalek Sec

What are the chances of giving him his own article after his appearance in the next two-parter?~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 20:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd say there's a good chance for the Cult of Skaro - they're the individual Daleks with the most on-screen appearances (end of Army of Ghosts, Doomsday, Daleks in Manhattan, and Evolution of the Daleks). I'm not sure about Dalek Sec, though. Will ^{(I hope they cannot see, I AM THE GREAT DESTROYER!)} 15:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Most of the info in his section could be said about the cult as a whole, all that is extra is he became the 1st, and possibly last, Human Dalek. ≈ Seraph 13:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I've created the article: I don't see any objections to the creation. It might need a rewrite - Cult of Skaro. Will ^{(is it can be time for messages now plz?)} 01:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

update

can we update this please? daleks in manhattan was shown yesterday and information in that should be put eg it aired, other cult of skaro members were not sucked in etc etc 86.112.249.240 07:51, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

2 points on Imperial Daleks

The Imperials are noted as having "high-pitched voices", but I seem to remember several instances of remarkably deep-voiced Imperials from Remembrance of the Daleks such as at the beginning of ep 2 when the dalek comes out of the basement, and also on board the mothership. Can someone confirm this? Also, I'm not sure about this but I'm sure I remember reading in the novel of Remembrance that the Special Weapons Dalek was very vulnerable to enemy fire rather than "heavily armoured" as the article says. I'm not at all sure about that though, so again, can someone with the book confirm? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Miremare (talk • contribs) 18:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

Having gone through the DVD of Remembrance of the Daleks, it's clear that the Imperial faction have a slightly different modulation on their voices, but they certainly don't seem to be pitched higher than the Renegade faction. I'd take that bit out, myself. As for the Special Weapons Daleks, I've got the novelisation, and having read through it again I see no mention that they're especially vulnerable to enemy fire for any reason other than they're slower than standard Daleks, and therefore slightly easier to hit. Doctortoc 11:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Great, cheers for checking. Miremare 17:05, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Jagaroth?

I'm confused... what (if anything) do the Jagaroth have to do with daleks? I havent seen any of the old school episodes, but the article for City of Death seems to imply that its nothing. Also wasn't sec exclusivly refered to as a Human Dalek. I think maybe the only thing they have in common is a slight aesthetic resembelence. 82.32.73.246 18:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Jagaroth

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus

Well I see what people are thinking but we should have at least a voting system. the one that reaches ten will become rality. put signiture (four: ~) next to number. if you agree with this and want to remove jagaroth and make it into hybrid, sign there, if you thing the jagaroth is true sign in againts. this should be fair.

Against 1. It's definately not a Jagorath. This is stupid OZOO (vote saxon) 16:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

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Agree

1. 81.152.191.39 18:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

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Hang on... Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability. Just because 10 people think they are a bit similar doesn't make it true! If someone can produce a source for evidence to show there actually is some relation then fair enough, else the whole thing is just speculation. 82.32.73.246 21:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I've close this poll because it's been two years, with no result 70.29.213.241 (talk) 09:43, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Fair use rationale for Image:Imperialdalek.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:Dalekfire.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:Dalekinvasionfleet.jpg

Image:Dalekinvasionfleet.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)