Talk:Coumarin/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

2007

This ill-named "2007" section has collected a mess. PLEASE DO NOT START FURTHER NEW DICUSSIONS UP HERE--Jerzy•t 06:34, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

(Stray sig; it appears sig-markup was saved, or resulting text was later copied. Examination of edit history would clarify, but likely provide no benefit.)

Kiehlrp (talk) 04:19, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

(Etymology)

Inconsistency: in the Dutch and German article it is mentioned that the name Coumarin comes from the Spanish word cumarú, which means Tonkabeantree. In the English article however the name is said to derive from a French word. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.211.44.114 (talk) 09:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

(Too detailed?)

The calculation of coumarin content in cassis is tediously explicit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.89.173.219 (talk) 21:51, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

(Ambiguity re headache cause)

" However, the coumarin content of these drinks is said to cause headaches." Since all alcoholic beverages can cause headaches, this assertion deserves further documentation. Kiehlrp (talk) 04:19, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Synonym

The lymphedema reference calls it (5,6-benzo-alpha pyrone). Rod57 (talk) 13:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's an accepted synonym: see ChemSpider. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 20:08, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Mexican Vanilla

I'm told that Mexican Vanilla, the kind they sell in the liquor stores in the bordertowns, contains coumarin, and is not imported for sale in the US for that reason. Could anyone elaborate on this? The vanilla has a cinnamon aftertaste that tends to disflavor chocolate desserts, but I was liking it in vanilla tapioca. A local ice cream chain sells "mexican vanilla" flavor but their spokesperson said that it's really a large amount of regular vanilla. My information is from the Austin American Statesman, in response to a query I sent their Questions editor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.69.251.117 (talk) 07:26, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Dimerization

One of the major chemical reaction using coumarin is photodimerization with UV irradiation. A topic about this subject is necessary. Noticelly it is a 2-2 cyclisation using the carbon carbon double bound which doesn't belong to the aromatic group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Liclic en (talk • contribs) 03:48, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Is couramin a lung-specific carcinogen?

I didn't find any place saying that Couramin is a lung-specific carcinogen. On the contrary, OSHA Chemical Sampling Information on Coumarin says IARC classifies in as : Group 3, not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans (see http://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_229620.html). In whitch case the sentence "OSHA considers this compound to be only a lung-specific carcinogen" should be reviewed... --Jacques de Selliers (talk) 07:33, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you, although Coumadin,which is produced when one burns Coumarin, is classified as a Carcinogen.Coumadin AKA 4-Hydroxycoumarin is a component of Diesel exhaust. https://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_246903.html

Although I think the 'lung specific carcinogen' status is a bit alarmist, as this Respiratory Toxicologist goes on to explain: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news/science/diesel-fumes-are-carcinogenic-who-reports-640090/ It's pretty well known that if you get enough exposure to diesel, it's a carcinogen," said University of Edinburgh respiratory toxicology professor Ken Donaldson, who was not part of the IARC panel. He said the thousands of particles, including some harmful chemicals, in the exhaust could cause inflammation in the lungs, and that could lead over time to cancer.

"For the man on the street, nothing has changed," he said. "It's a known risk but a low one for the average person, so people should go about their business as normal. ... You could wear a mask if you want to, but who wants to walk around all the time with a mask on?"

The IARC panel referenced in this quote, published this document on Diesel fumes - http://press.iarc.fr/pr213_E.pdf Boundarylayer (talk) 03:47, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Be advised that 4-hydroxycoumarin, a chemical produced in burning coumarin, is its own chemical and is NOT Coumadin (note the capital letter of this brand name). Although certainly Coumadin/warfarin, the drug, contains 4-hydroxycoumarin as part of the molecule. Confusingly, this whole class of anticoagulants are called 4-hydroxycoumarins since that is their common motif, but they all require an additional VERY large and hydrophilic ring substituent (at least a benzine ring or another molecule of 4-hydroxycoumarin linked through a carbonyl), before they have any anticoagulant activity at all. Whether this addition also removes their carcinogenicity, is something I don't know, but it's entirely possible. It would surprise me if Coumadin/warfarin, a still commonly used drug, is very carcinogenic. There are many examples, of course, of drugs that are carcinogenic in rodents that show no evidence of being carcinogenic in large studies in humans (for example, many of the statins).

In any case, there is no rat poison, and no anticoagulant, in coumarin-treated cigarettes, either before or after being burned. There probably is carcinogenic 4-hydroxycoumarin in the smoke of coumarin-treated cigarettes AFTER they are burned, but it's not rat poison. I've done a lot of work on these articles to try to sort out this confusion (which you saw on 60 Minutes), but obviously it hasn't quite worked on everybody, yet. SBHarris 22:18, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Refactored Wigand/critics paragraph

I just refactored the Wigand paragraph. It's still oddly placed, and reads very much as if a Wigand proponent just dumped it in the opening section and left without reading the rest of the article. However, upon actually checking the references, I see that it's well sourced, and Dr. Wigand did in fact appear on 60 Minutes in 1996 — although from the transcript it sounds as if coumarin was just one of the many things he talked about. His focus was more on the fact that Big Tobacco knew cigarettes were just a "nicotine delivery device", and the fact that some of the chemical additives were rat poisons was just a sideshow.

If it's just a sideshow, what is it doing in our article-lead? It's not oddly placed, it's wrongly placed, per WP:WEIGHT. There's no doubt that Wygand said this, but it only belongs in the lede if what the man said was TRUE, which it is not. He's been backpedaling, but he still doesn't have it right (a chemical immediate precursor doesn't mean your body can do the conversion, and in fact it can not), and even re the carcinogen claims, they apply to rodent livers and not human lungs (unless we have yet a different chemical, the 4-hydroxy version) and so Wygand would have done well to consult Wikipedia before going on 60 Minutes about all this (too bad there was no Wikipedia in 1995). As it is, I think this reference deserves no more than a "pop culture reference" as "some tobacco whistleblower said something or other confused about something like this substance, once on 60 Minutes" SBHarris 22:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

However, I did remove the final sentence of that paragraph, which was basically an innocuous hanger for a footnote referencing http://medicolegal.tripod.com/coumarin.htm . The writer of that page claims (A) that the Indians offered tobacco to Europeans as an act of war, and (B) that unrepentant Southerners added coumarin to cigarettes starting in the 1870s as part of a "Second Civil War" against the North (who I guess were known as heavy smokers?). Fun, but not really a reliable source. --Quuxplusone (talk) 21:15, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Attribution

One footnote in Fireball Cinnamon Whisky is reworked text from Coumarin article. Please do not remove this. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 22:38, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Uncited medical uses

I have removed the following uncited medical uses:

Reported coumarin activity includes anti-HIV, anti-tumor, anti-hypertension, anti-arrhythmia, anti-inflammatory, anti-osteoporosis, antiseptic, and analgesic.

Citations for the same will be appreciated. --IO Device (talk) 15:36, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Two HIV studies for species of cinnamomum are Anti-HIV-1 reverse transcriptase activities of hexane extracts from some Asian medicinal plants and Screening of various plant-extracts used in ayurvedic medicine for inhibitory effects on human-immunodeficiency-virus type-1 (HIV-1) protease. Aristippus (talk) 01:29, 28 September 2019 (UTC)