Talk:Cornell University/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Nikkimaria (talk) 03:22, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Hello! I'll be reviewing this article for possible GA status. My review should be posted within the next day or two. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 03:22, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

 Doing... Nikkimaria (talk) 03:53, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't feel this article is ready for GA status at this time. Feel free to renominate once the below concerns have been addressed. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 15:07, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Writing and formatting

• Don't use contractions

Didn't find any --Xtreambar (talk) 18:12, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

"the young woman doesn't accept a kiss". Nikkimaria (talk) 18:57, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

• See here for list of double redirects
• "land-grant" or "land grant"?

• It depends on whether it is a noun or an adjective. For example, "Cornell invested its land grant." vs. "land-grant college"

• 13,931 + 6427 ≠ 20,633; 13,931 + 6427 + 865 + 135 ≠ 20,633. Check your enrollment numbers The data source for 20,633 does not give a breakdown of graduate student enrollment, nor does it indicate whether it includes Qatar or not. The 20,633 figure is for 2009-2010, the other breakdowns are for 2008-2009. Racepacket (talk) 22:13, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
• "Century" should not be capitalized in "20th Century"
• African-american" -> "African-American"
• Article needs general copy-editing for clarity and grammar
• Why is 20th Century not in chronological order?

• While obviously 1969 is after 1945, generally the phrase "after World War II" is assumed to refer to the immediate post-war period, ie. pre-1960. Therefore, to jump from 1969 to post-war is out of order. If by post-war you mean a larger time period, you might specify that, but I still think the section should be reorganized. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:48, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

• You state that by 2000 the university had over 3,400 faculty, yet the infobox only accounts for 2,600

• The 2,600 excludes the adjunct Medical School faculty who teach the clinical programs in New York City (a large part of the doctors who work in the teaching hospitals). The faculty actually grew between 2000 and 2010.

• Missing hyphens in a few places - see WP:HYPHEN (not a GA criteria)

• In my view, this is an issue with prose quality, which is part of the criteria

• Don't link the same term more than once or twice, especially in close proximity; also, very common terms (like swimming) need not be linked at all. On the other hand, US-specific terms like SAT should be linked on first occurrence
• Use consistent capitalization - for example, Fall Creek gorge or Gorge?
• Is the Qatar campus called Weill Medical College or Weill Cornell Medical College?
• Article body notes 13,515 undergrads, which contradicts the earlier number. Please make all student and faculty numbers consistent.

• This is very difficult, because different data is for different years. The sources cited in the article does not give the breakdown for NYC vs. Qatar. Racepacket (talk) 02:25, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

• First paragraph of Admissions is confusing, because it is unclear which stats apply to which class
• Be consistent in using "percent" or "%"

• WP:MOSNUM says, "Where a whole number in a percentage is spelled out, the percent sign is not used (three percent or 3%, not three %)."

• Avoid one- or two-sentence paragraphs where possible (not a GA criteria)
• Numbers under 10 should generally be spelled out (not a GA criteria)
• Make sure acronyms are spelled out on first appearance
• Suicides don't really fit in Activities
• At one point you say that "people associated with the school" are Cornellians, whereas later you say "graduates" are Cornellians. Which is correct?
• Standardize the formatting in the Cornellian business paragraph
• Don't include both higher- and lower-order categories (not a GA criteria)
• Include the article parameter and the Wikisource reference (if available) for the 1911 template

• This is not clear - where is the 1911 template?

• Under External links - the one that produces the text about this article incorporating material from the 1911 Britannica. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

• I have just read the "Cornell University" article in the 1911 Britannica for the first time and I did not see any material that is in the current article. I don't know who put the template in the article or why the editor did so. Racepacket (talk) 11:44, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Accuracy and verifiability

• Address citation needed tags
• Don't include external links in article text (Not a GA criteria)
• See here for dead and broken links (not a GA criteria)
• Besides statements marked with tags, citations also needed for:

• making it the first coeducational school among what came to be known as the Ivy League.
• At least two other historic buildings—East Robert Hall and Stone Hall—have also been listed on the NRHP, despite having been demolished in the 1980s
• Although students are affiliated with their individual college or school, they may take courses in any of the colleges, provided they have fulfilled the course prerequisites. A handful of inter-school academic departments offer courses in more than one college.
• In 2008, the Johnson School of Management accepted 19% of its applicants.
• The university awarded need-based grants as early as 1879, and its first endowed scholarship fund was created in 1892.
• In 2009, DesignIntelligence also ranked Cornell's undergraduate and graduate landscape architecture programs as 4th and 3rd respectively, in the nation.
• fourth in 2009, fifth in 2008, second in 2007, and third in 2006.
• Cornell had 19 ranked in the top 10 in terms of overall academic quality. Also National Research Council ranked the quality of faculties as 5th in Arts and Humanities, 6th in Mathematics and Physical Sciences, and 5th in Engineering. New NRC data to be released on Sept. 28. Racepacket (talk) 21:13, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
• engineers knew more than literature professors did about running steam-powered printing presses. From its inception, the press has offered work-study financial aid: students with previous training in the printing trades were paid for typesetting and running the presses
• Alpha Phi Alpha, the first intercollegiate Greek-letter organization established for African Americans, was founded at Cornell in 1906
• In addition to the right to representation, Cornell students have the right to not self-incriminate during Judicial Administrator investigations, which is an unusual (though very important) right in college justice systems.

• Found source for first half. Racepacket (talk) 18:27, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

• Of these, only Ujamaa, Akwe:kon, and the Latino Living Center remain controversial, due to their dedicated racial or ethnic themes.
• In 2010, the men's basketball team defeated Wisconsin to advance to the "Sweet Sixteen," becoming the first Ivy League team to advance that far since Penn's "Final Four" appearance in 1979
• The men's ice hockey team is the most historically successful of the varsity teams and is the university's most intently followed sport
• The men's ice hockey team has been NCAA champion twice, ECAC champion 11 times and Ivy League champion 19 times, and recorded the only undefeated season in NCAA Division I Hockey history in 1970. The men's lacrosse team has been NCAA champion three times and Ivy League champion 21 times. The men's Lightweight rowing team varsity 8+ has won the IRA regatta four times since 1992 (1992, 2006, 2007, 2008). The women's polo team has won the National Women's Polo Championship 11 times and the women's hockey team has been Ivy League champion 8 times. In total, Cornell's varsity athletic teams have been champions of the NCAA, ECAC, or Ivy League 114 times.
• is said to have been Politically Incorrect even as an undergraduate at Cornell
• Charlie Bucket was played by future Cornellian Peter Ostrum, and alumnus Robert Smigel is the puppeteer behind Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog. Cornellians have won Academy Awards and been enshrined on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Mack David wrote "Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo" from the 1950 film Cinderella. Robert Alexander Anderson (composer) wrote the Christmas song "Mele Kalikimaka"

• Use a consistent formatting for references (Not a GA criteria)
• Try to reduce the citations to self-published sources as much as possible (Not a GA criteria)
• Ref 14: title needs to be cleaned up

• It is a verbatim quote from the newspaper. Racepacket (talk) 13:08, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

• Need publisher for all refs (Not a GA criteria)
• Italicize print-based sources like journals and newspapers (Not a GA criteria)
• stateuniversity.com is not a reliable source
• Format dates consistently (Not a GA criteria)
• All web links need retrieval dates
• paked.net is not a reliable source alternative source is already in the infobox template
• Books and journals need page numbers (some have them, others don't) (Not a GA criteria)
• What makes soccertimes.com a reliable source?

• Soccertimes.com is ranked 782,055th website in the world. It was launched on 23-Mar-1999. 397 websites link to Soccertimes.com, and it is highly-regarded in the soccer community. I trust it for the minor facts in the ref - that Arena was the national coach and that he went to Cornell.

Broad

• History could use some expansion. What happened between 1873 and 1945? Between 1969 and 2000?

• We have a very extensive (55,418 bytes) separate history article and we struggled very hard to boil that down. We don't need to regrow it here. Racepacket (talk) 12:14, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

• Agreed. However, the point of a daughter article is to provide additional details to supplement a complete summary in the general article. At this point, I don't feel the summary is complete - even just a paragraph or two would help. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:45, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

• The Alumni section, conversely, could stand to be condensed

• I agree. We already have a very extensive List of Cornell people article. Racepacket (talk) 12:14, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

• People section should be updated

• What does this mean exactly? Racepacket (talk) 12:14, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

• Surely more recent information is available than the 2005-06 academic year for faculty? Than the 2004-05 fiscal year for finances? Since there has since been another Chocolate Factory movie, you need to specify which Charlie Bucket was played by Peter Ostrum. Coulter and Olbermann shouldn't be repeated. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:45, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

• Isn't this the same as saying "As of 2005-2006..." for the faculty awards counts? The article does not claim to provide the current data. Racepacket (talk) 12:56, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

• Yes, and I know it doesn't claim to provide current data. What I'm saying is it should provide, if not current, then at least more recent data. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:41, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

• Although that is a very helpful suggestion, it is not a GA criteria. It would probably make sense to update the article when the 2010-11 data is finalized. Racepacket (talk) 15:28, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

• I have updated the faculty counts to the current issue of the factbook, but even that publication mixes 2008-09 Ithaca data with 2007-08 medical faculty data. Racepacket (talk) 21:11, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality

• Please see WP:W2W and WP:ASF - avoid inserting editorial opinion/bias
• Maintain an encyclopedic and neutral tone at all times
• Avoid emotional and promotional phrasing

• I think that I am sensitive to that problem, which is found in many University articles. Could you please give one or two examples of where the article "crossed the line" on promotionalism? Claims of being the first of 'this' or ranked number x in 'that' are substantiated and fair. We are talking about national or world-wide comparisons, not just "the best college in Thompkins County." I made sure that the article documented the downsides as well. Racepacket (talk) 17:04, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

• "The Ithaca Campus is among the rolling valleys of the Finger Lakes region and, atop the Hill, commands a panoramic view of the surrounding area" - the second part especially is not neutrally worded
• "which is an unusual (though very important) right in college justice systems" - would be somewhat improved by sourcing. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:03, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Stability

No recent issues noted

Images

• Avoid sandwiching text between images

• I removed the main culprit, which was a duplicate law school picture. The remaining images appear to be pretty well allocated throughout the article now. Note that article display varies by screen size. —Eustress ^talk 05:59, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

• Captions of images should be grammatically correct, neutrally worded, and cited where necessary. They should also be consistent with the article text
• Images should be placed next to relevant article text; they should illustrate, not decorate, the text
• Description page of the raas image says it depicts bhangra - are those two the same thing?

• Caption says "Performers from the university's Raas team" Raas is the traditional folk dance form of Vrindavan, India. Bhangra is a form of dance and music that originated in the Punjab region. The dance team calls themselves the "Raas team." Racepacket (talk) 17:20, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

• Balch Hall image - source link is dead, and therefore no evidence of licensing is provided
• Observatory image - source link dead, permission information doesn't match given licensing tag
• Computing center image - source link is dead
• Lewin image- need publication date

• If Lewin died in 1947, and the photo was taken while he was still alive, that would be at least 63 years ago. Since he is relatively young in the photo, it must be more than 70 years old. How would one go about researching the date of an undated photo? Racepacket (talk) 17:32, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

• The issue is not the date the photo was taken, but when it was first published - that could have been anywhere from over 70 years ago to less than a year. Re: finding out the date: ask the uploader, look for books/exhibitions by the author, check out the source listed, Google it...Nikkimaria (talk) 18:03, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

• Ginsberg image - source link is dead

I have left word on commons with user Urban and see if I get a response. Racepacket (talk) 17:20, 21 September 2010 (UTC)