Talk:Comparison of the Hare and Droop quotas
Latest comment: 8 days ago by 2604:3D09:8880:11E0:0:0:0:7044 in topic Scenario 3
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editThis is a very unsatisfactory page.
Its opening sentence implies that it is about the use of the two types of quota in STV elections, but some of the material is not about STV, e.g. `scenario 2' which is `An example with a closed list using the largest remainder method', so not STV. Either the first sentence should be rewritten to indicate a wider scope, or examples should be restricted to STV.
The main statements about the differences between the two quotas (e.g. `The Hare quota is generally kinder to small parties ..') have no citations, and are just backed by specific examples, which is a long way short of demonstrating that these statements have general validity. [They may well have, but proper citation or clearer explanation/proof is required.]
The scenario (no.1) that relates to STV is not very realistic - with no cross-party 2nd or 3rd preferences; while the Melbourne example is sufficiently complicated that it is difficult to see whether the result is indicative of a general tendency or just a peculiarity of this particular election.
If it cannot be significantly improved in its arguments and by adding citations where needed, I would suggest deleting this page. Any worthwhile points could be added as a brief contribution to another wikipedia page within the Voting Systems family.
Dmollison (talk) 21:46, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
Added the result comparisons of a real live election results.
Copies of official preference count sheet is published by the Australian Victorian Electoral Commission on its web site https://www.vec.vic.gov.au/Results/MelbourneResult2012.html#e2. The Victorian Legislation uses the Droop quota system. Calculation of the surplus transfer value is based on the number of ballot papers not the weighted value of the vote.
The VEC had published the raw preference data file but has since removed it from the web site.
Below is the full Count Sheet using MEEK and the Hare quota (x/9)
===== Election title: MCC-C9-2012-Meek Method: Meek STV with Hare-Dynamic-Fractional threshold Number of total ballots: 63676 Number of invalid or empty ballots: 2 Number of ballots used in the count: 63674 40 candidate running for 9 seats.
R|FOSTER, Rich|D'CRUZ, Emil|RUBBO, Mark |SYME, Wendy |EDWARDS, Jas|MAYNE, Steph|ANDERSON, Mi|DOWNING, Luk|CRAGG, David |ard |y Lee |Dattilo | |on |en |chele |e S | | | | | | | | | | |------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------ |CHAMBERLIN, |DUTTA, Roshe|PARISI, Nick|MACDONALD, A|RAHAMAN, Aze|FISCHL, Lees|ANDERSON, Ge|NORRIS, Mare|OKE, Cathy |Kevin |na | |lex |ezur |a |rard |e | | | | | | | | | | |------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------ |LEPPERT, Roh|RHODES, Lach|PODESTA, Jen|THIEL, Phili|LOUEY, Kevin|WOOD, Arron |PINDER-MORTI|JETTER, Carl|SHEN, Harvar |an |lan |nifer |p | | |MER, Beverle| |d | | | | | | |y | | |------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------ |SWEETMAN, Fi|WEI, Hope |WATTS, Jacki|KENNEDY, Mic|KINSELLA, Ma|O'BRIEN, Sue|ONG, Ken |PAGANO, Carl|HEWITT, Sall |ona | |e |hael |rie | | |o |y | | | | | | | | | |------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------ |SMITH, Leona|VISA, Moti |LOH, David |van der CRAA|Exhausted |Surplus |Threshold | | | |TS, Anthony | | | | | | | | | |
===========================================================================================================
edit1| 3805.000000| 63.000000| 72.000000| 5.000000| 8.000000| 3808.000000| 20.000000| 1895.000000| 34.000000 | 3607.000000| 58.000000| 8.000000| 13.000000| 678.000000| 589.000000| 522.000000| 6.000000| 9886.000000 | 14.000000| 8.000000| 13.000000| 21.000000|23759.000000| 29.000000| 11.000000| 12.000000| 16.000000 | 10.000000| 27.000000| 6073.000000| 16.000000| 9.000000| 16.000000| 8273.000000| 7.000000| 17.000000 | 17.000000| 123.000000| 11.000000| 115.000000| 0.000000|20693.333333| 7074.888889 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count of first choices. Candidates OKE, Cathy; LOUEY, Kevin; and ONG, Ken have reached the threshold and are | elected.
===========================================================================================================
edit2| 3808.671302| 64.787587| 73.848988| 5.702222| 8.000000| 3829.434154| 20.000000| 1895.530869| 34.000000 | 3620.065927| 59.874797| 8.000000| 13.000000| 680.141004| 589.000000| 522.638801| 6.284352| 7081.767290 | 2763.234048| 10.274816| 22.667968| 22.990464| 7076.430356|16668.642186| 13.808888| 20.370532| 18.085424 | 11.688796| 31.909758| 6084.361097| 16.289642| 9.000000| 16.289642| 7083.962982| 1192.447936| 19.149089 | 18.549906| 125.109405| 11.289642| 116.700099| 0.000031| 9611.247270| 7074.888886 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.715648; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297778; and ONG, Ken, 0.855179. Candidate WOOD, Arron has reached the threshold and is | elected.
===========================================================================================================
edit3| 3808.840219| 64.791584| 73.854348| 5.702286| 8.000000| 3831.439664| 20.000000| 1895.533437| 34.000000 | 3621.905078| 59.877127| 8.000000| 13.000000| 680.145132| 589.000000| 523.216451| 6.285047| 7074.964317 | 2770.761804| 10.855932| 22.855658| 22.995329| 7076.467278| 7075.551346| 9592.336245| 22.589468| 18.090710 | 12.265175| 33.726094| 6085.361829| 16.696036| 9.000000| 16.291832| 7076.233061| 1202.105377| 19.165750 | 18.561634| 125.113459| 11.291832| 117.107547| 0.021914| 2521.119972| 7074.886455 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714953; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297714; ONG, Ken, 0.854084; and WOOD, Arron, 0.424444. Candidate PINDER-MORTIMER, | Beverley has reached the threshold and is elected.
===========================================================================================================
edit4| 3808.946736| 64.791955| 73.854562| 5.702352| 8.000000| 3832.022894| 20.000000| 1895.533730| 34.000000 | 3622.119186| 60.028536| 8.000000| 13.000000| 680.145374| 589.000000| 523.216588| 6.285054| 7074.973535 | 2770.860174| 10.856027| 22.855911| 22.995378| 7075.290249| 7075.956191| 7076.048297| 2535.061440| 18.828492 | 14.304190| 33.989969| 6085.469304| 16.847486| 9.000000| 16.292156| 7075.020493| 1203.431660| 19.168172 | 18.563378| 125.113661| 11.292156| 117.107862| 0.026852| 2.859235| 7074.885906 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714946; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297648; ONG, Ken, 0.853922; WOOD, Arron, 0.424405; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.737557.
===========================================================================================================
edit5| 3808.946932| 64.792027| 73.854628| 5.702369| 8.000000| 3832.024170| 20.000000| 1895.533767| 34.000000 | 3622.119993| 60.028686| 8.000000| 13.000000| 680.145446| 589.000000| 523.216678| 6.285062| 7074.894757 | 2770.937678| 10.856155| 22.856206| 22.995434| 7074.886620| 7075.060287| 7075.848568| 2536.577573| 18.829027 | 14.305321| 33.990487| 6085.469853| 16.847660| 9.000000| 16.292188| 7074.888397| 1203.562729| 19.168413 | 18.563551| 125.113730| 11.292188| 117.107974| 0.005446| 1.138873| 7074.888284 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714938; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297631; ONG, Ken, 0.853906; WOOD, Arron, 0.424341; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.737436.
===========================================================================================================
edit6| 3808.946977| 64.792027| 73.854628| 5.702369| 8.000000| 3832.024430| 20.000000| 1895.533767| 34.000000 | 3622.120108| 60.028746| 8.000000| 13.000000| 680.145446| 589.000000| 523.216688| 6.285062| 7074.894788 | 2770.937704| 10.856165| 22.856209| 22.995434| 7074.886796| 7074.893706| 7075.011357| 2537.572208| 18.829317 | 14.306122| 33.990618| 6085.469912| 16.847727| 9.000000| 16.292188| 7074.888471| 1203.562741| 19.168413 | 18.563551| 125.113730| 11.292188| 117.107981| 0.012426| 0.138286| 7074.887509 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714938; ONG, Ken, 0.853906; WOOD, Arron, 0.424331; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, 0.737336.
===========================================================================================================
edit7| 3809.946977| 64.938121| 74.854628| | 8.702369| 3832.024430| 21.000000| 1895.533767| 34.000000 | 3622.120108| 60.028746| 8.000000| 13.000000| 680.145446| 589.000000| 523.216688| 6.285062| 7074.894788 | 2770.937704| 10.856165| 22.856209| 22.995434| 7074.886796| 7074.893706| 7075.011357| 2537.572208| 18.829317 | 14.306122| 33.990618| 6085.469912| 16.847727| 9.000000| 16.292188| 7075.742377| 1203.562741| 20.168413 | 18.563551| 125.113730| 11.292188| 117.107981| 0.012426| 0.992192| 7074.887509 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating SYME, Wendy and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit8| 3810.946977| 64.938121| 74.854628| | 8.702369| 3832.024430| 21.000000| 1895.533767| 34.000000 | 3622.120108| 60.028746| 8.000000| 13.000000| 680.145446| 589.000000| 527.216688| | 7075.609726 | 2771.222766| 10.856165| 22.856209| 22.995434| 7074.886796| 7074.893706| 7075.221543| 2537.572208| 18.829317 | 14.306122| 33.990618| 6085.469912| 16.847727| 9.000000| 16.367063| 7075.742377| 1203.562741| 20.168413 | 18.563551| 125.113730| 11.292188| 117.107981| 0.012427| 1.917316| 7074.887509 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating NORRIS, Maree and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit9| 3810.947505| 64.938614| 74.855173| | 8.702369| 3832.029942| 21.000000| 1895.534015| 34.000000 | 3622.122856| 60.028981| 8.000000| 13.000000| 680.145858| 589.000000| 527.216900| | 7074.898520 | 2771.919242| 10.856741| 22.858698| 22.995938| 7074.887670| 7074.894012| 7074.895418| 2537.904668| 18.829913 | 14.306455| 33.991210| 6085.472013| 16.847953| 9.000000| 16.367298| 7074.890132| 1204.406015| 20.169985 | 18.564654| 125.114137| 11.292394| 117.108300| 0.006421| 0.025378| 7074.888176 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714866; ONG, Ken, 0.853803; WOOD, Arron, 0.424331; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, 0.737302.
===========================================================================================================
edit10| 3810.947505| 64.938614| 75.855173| | 8.702369| 3832.029942| 21.000000| 1895.534015| 34.000000
| 3626.122856| 61.028981| | 14.000000| 680.145858| 589.000000| 527.216900| | 7074.898520 | 2772.919242| 10.856741| 22.858698| 22.995938| 7074.887670| 7074.894012| 7074.895418| 2537.904668| 18.829913 | 14.306455| 33.991210| 6085.472013| 16.847953| 9.000000| 16.367298| 7074.890132| 1204.406015| 20.169985 | 18.564654| 125.114137| 11.292394| 117.108300| 0.006421| 0.025378| 7074.888176 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating PARISI, Nick and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit11| 3811.947505| 64.938614| 80.855173| | | 3832.029942| 21.000000| 1895.534015| 34.000000
| 3626.122856| 61.028981| | 15.000000| 681.145858| 589.000000| 527.216900| | 7074.898520 | 2772.919242| 10.856741| 22.858698| 22.995938| 7074.887670| 7074.894012| 7074.895418| 2537.904668| 18.829913 | 14.306455| 34.693579| 6085.472013| 16.847953| 9.000000| 16.367298| 7074.890132| 1204.406015| 20.169985 | 18.564654| 125.114137| 11.292394| 117.108300| 0.006421| 0.025378| 7074.888176 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating EDWARDS, Jason and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit12| 3811.947505| 64.938614| 80.855173| | | 3832.029942| 21.000000| 1895.534015| 34.000000
| 3626.122856| 61.028981| | 15.000000| 681.145858| 589.000000| 527.216900| | 7074.898520 | 2772.919242| 10.856741| 22.858698| 22.995938| 7074.887670| 7074.894012| 7074.895418| 2537.904668| 18.829913 | 14.306455| 34.693579| 6089.472013| 17.847953| | 20.367298| 7074.890132| 1204.406015| 20.169985 | 18.564654| 125.114137| 11.292394| 117.108300| 0.006421| 0.025378| 7074.888176 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating KINSELLA, Marie and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit13| 3811.947505| 64.938614| 80.855173| | | 3832.605611| 21.000000| 1895.534015| 34.000000
| 3626.122856| 62.028981| | 15.000000| 681.145858| 589.000000| 527.216900| | 7077.043118 | 2778.630046| | 23.714100| 23.566206| 7074.887670| 7074.894012| 7074.895418| 2537.904668| 18.829913 | 14.306455| 34.693579| 6089.472013| 17.847953| | 20.367298| 7074.890132| 1204.406015| 20.169985 | 18.564654| 125.114137| 11.292394| 117.108300| 0.006421| 2.169976| 7074.888176 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating RHODES, Lachlan and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit14| 3811.947505| 64.938614| 80.855173| | | 3832.605611| 21.000000| 1895.534015| 34.000000
| 3626.269053| 62.028981| | 17.000000| 682.145858| 589.000000| 528.216900| | 7077.043118 | 2778.630046| | 23.714100| 23.566206| 7074.931183| 7074.894012| 7074.895418| 2537.904668| 18.829913 | 14.306455| 34.942460| 6089.472013| 17.847953| | 20.367298| 7075.743935| 1205.406015| 20.169985 | 18.564654| 128.114137| | 119.108300| 0.006421| 3.066786| 7074.888176 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating LOH, David and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit15| 3811.948851| 64.939556| 80.856608| | | 3832.620041| 21.000000| 1895.534407| 34.000000
| 3626.276078| 62.029364| | 17.000000| 682.146951| 589.000000| 528.217438| | 7074.896218 | 2780.730017| | 23.722254| 23.568159| 7074.908586| 7074.904689| 7074.895741| 2537.906284| 18.830416 | 14.306679| 34.943195| 6089.477474| 17.848159| | 20.367561| 7074.894051| 1206.249428| 20.171640 | 18.565756| 128.115262| | 119.109055| 0.020082| 0.065995| 7074.886658 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714649; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297630; ONG, Ken, 0.853700; WOOD, Arron, 0.424331; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.737302.
===========================================================================================================
edit16| 3811.948851| 65.939556| 80.856608| | | 3833.620041| 21.000000| 1895.534407| 34.000000
| 3627.276078| 62.029364| | 17.000000| 682.146951| 589.000000| 528.217438| | 7075.083954 | 2780.730017| | 24.082566| 25.568159| 7075.079922| 7074.982982| 7076.150902| 2538.735484| 19.835240 | | 39.363009| 6089.477474| 17.848159| | 20.367561| 7075.747751| 1206.395728| 20.171640 | 18.565756| 128.115262| | 119.109055| 0.020085| 2.612221| 7074.886658 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating SWEETMAN, Fiona and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit17| 3811.949145| 65.939895| 80.856829| | | 3833.622561| 21.000000| 1895.534603| 34.000000
| 3627.277563| 62.029611| | 17.000000| 682.147125| 589.000000| 528.217537| | 7074.897402 | 2780.914109| | 24.083343| 25.568330| 7074.890700| 7074.980411| 7075.033458| 2540.038958| 19.836298 | | 39.364662| 6089.478453| 17.848449| | 20.367809| 7074.894506| 1207.239066| 20.173185 | 18.566860| 128.115418| | 119.109231| 0.024483| 0.265632| 7074.886169 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714630; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297622; ONG, Ken, 0.853597; WOOD, Arron, 0.424326; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.737171.
===========================================================================================================
edit18| 3811.949145| 65.939895| 80.856829| | | 3833.622561| 21.000000| 1895.534603| 35.000000
| 3629.277563| 68.029611| | | 682.147125| 590.000000| 528.217537| | 7074.897402 | 2780.914109| | 24.083343| 26.568330| 7075.188322| 7075.278448| 7075.331525| 2540.145230| 19.836298 | | 39.364662| 6090.478453| 19.848449| | 22.367809| 7074.894506| 1207.239066| 20.173185 | 18.566860| 128.115418| | 119.109231| 0.024485| 1.159358| 7074.886169 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating MACDONALD, Alex and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit19| 3811.949145| 65.939895| 80.856829| | | 3834.768964| 21.000000| 1896.534603| 35.000000
| 3629.277563| 68.029611| | | 682.147125| 590.000000| 528.217537| | 7074.897402 | 2780.914109| | 24.083343| 26.568330| 7075.188322| 7075.278448| 7075.331525| 2540.145230| 19.836298 | | 40.364662| 6091.478453| 19.848449| | 23.617042| 7077.455297| 1209.824678| 28.198006 | | 128.115418| | 119.109231| 0.024485| 3.720149| 7074.886169 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating SMITH, Leona and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit20| 3811.949524| 65.940720| 80.857142| | | 3834.772537| 21.000000| 1896.535132| 35.000000
| 3629.280016| 68.030066| | | 682.147364| 590.000000| 528.217713| | 7074.891705 | 2780.924450| | 24.083401| 26.568339| 7074.905283| 7075.015905| 7075.291892| 2540.715724| 19.838061 | | 40.367318| 6091.479862| 19.849123| | 23.618201| 7074.893451| 1212.355860| 28.204757 | | 128.115588| | 119.109578| 0.041288| 0.576726| 7074.884302 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714629; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297610; ONG, Ken, 0.853288; WOOD, Arron, 0.424303; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.737125.
===========================================================================================================
edit21| 3811.949545| 65.940721| 80.857142| | | 3834.772676| 21.000000| 1896.535133| 35.000000
| 3629.280081| 68.030093| | | 682.147364| 590.000000| 528.217720| | 7074.891760 | 2780.924465| | 24.083415| 26.568339| 7074.905372| 7074.899260| 7074.976091| 2541.165786| 19.838246 | | 40.367614| 6091.479896| 19.849156| | 23.618216| 7074.885198| 1212.364057| 28.204777 | | 128.115588| | 119.109584| 0.022705| 0.127015| 7074.886367 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714629; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297610; ONG, Ken, 0.853287; WOOD, Arron, 0.424296; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.737083.
===========================================================================================================
edit22| 3811.949548| 65.940721| 80.857142| | | 3834.772694| 21.000000| 1896.535133| 35.000000
| 3629.280087| 68.030098| | | 682.147364| 590.000000| 528.217720| | 7074.891768 | 2780.924466| | 24.083418| 26.568339| 7074.905386| 7074.899276| 7074.889704| 2541.236846| 19.838278 | | 40.367671| 6091.479899| 19.849161| | 23.618219| 7074.885202| 1212.364057| 28.204777 | | 128.115588| | 119.109584| 0.037854| 0.047921| 7074.884683 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714629; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297610; WOOD, Arron, 0.424296; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, 0.737074.
===========================================================================================================
edit23| 3811.949548| 65.940721| 80.857142| | | 3834.772694| 21.000000| 1896.535133| 35.000000
| 3629.280087| 68.030098| | | 682.147364| 590.000000| 528.217720| | 7074.891768 | 2780.924466| | 24.083418| 26.568339| 7074.905386| 7074.899276| 7074.889704| 2541.236846| 19.838278 | | 40.367671| 6091.479899| 19.849161| | 23.618219| 7074.885202| 1212.364057| 28.204777 | | 128.115588| | 119.109584| 0.037854| 0.047921| 7074.884683 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714629; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297610; ONG, Ken, 0.853287; WOOD, Arron, 0.424296; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.737074.
===========================================================================================================
edit24| 3812.971755| 65.940721| 80.857142| | | 3834.772694| 21.000000| 1896.535133| 35.000000
| 3630.280087| 68.030098| | | 682.147364| 591.000000| 528.217720| | 7074.891768 | 2780.924466| | 24.083418| 27.270729| 7074.995482| 7074.899276| 7075.626778| 2547.818726| | | 47.072300| 6091.479899| 19.849161| | 24.618219| 7074.885202| 1212.364057| 28.204777 | | 129.115588| | 119.109584| 0.037856| 0.875091| 7074.884683 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating SHEN, Harvard and transferring votes. Candidates tied within precision of computations.
===========================================================================================================
edit25| 3813.971755| 65.940721| 80.857142| | | 3834.919407| 21.000000| 1896.535133| 35.000000
| 3633.280087| 69.030098| | | 682.147364| 591.000000| 528.364433| | 7074.891768 | 2780.924466| | 24.083418| 27.270729| 7075.040530| 7074.899276| 7075.626778| 2547.818726| | | 47.072300| 6099.732930| | | 30.022587| 7075.738489| 1212.364057| 28.204777 | | 129.115588| | 119.109584| 0.037857| 1.773426| 7074.884683 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating KENNEDY, Michael and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit26| 3813.971755| 65.940721| 81.857142| | | 3850.919407| | 1897.535133| 35.000000
| 3633.280087| 69.030098| | | 682.147364| 591.000000| 530.364433| | 7074.891768 | 2780.924466| | 24.083418| 27.270729| 7075.040530| 7074.899276| 7075.626778| 2547.818726| | | 47.072300| 6099.732930| | | 30.022587| 7075.738489| 1212.364057| 28.204777 | | 129.115588| | 120.109584| 0.037857| 1.773426| 7074.884683 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating ANDERSON, Michele and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit27| 3814.257126| 65.940721| 82.142513| | | 3853.204778| | 1897.535133| 35.000000
| 3633.280087| 69.030098| | | 682.147364| 591.164289| 530.364433| | 7080.608800 | 2789.563030| | | 31.980552| 7075.040530| 7075.020358| 7075.958211| 2547.861921| | | 47.147331| 6100.589043| | | 30.022587| 7075.738489| 1212.364057| 28.775519 | | 129.115588| | 120.109584| 0.037858| 7.942973| 7074.884683 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating PODESTA, Jennifer and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit28| 3814.261200| 65.942786| 82.146739| | | 3853.242628| | 1897.535885| 35.000000
| 3633.297714| 69.030969| | | 682.150158| 591.164623| 530.365891| | 7074.893333 | 2795.159972| | | 31.993252| 7074.900099| 7074.949261| 7075.051260| 2549.002594| | | 47.149791| 6100.604855| | | 30.023158| 7074.902631| 1213.200163| 28.779242 | | 129.118504| | 120.111432| 0.021860| 0.264279| 7074.886461 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.714052; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297604; ONG, Ken, 0.853185; WOOD, Arron, 0.424288; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.736963.
===========================================================================================================
edit29| 3814.261200| 66.045908| 82.293554| | | 3855.079768| | 1897.535885| 35.000000
| 3633.465638| 70.030969| | | 682.150158| 591.450571| 530.651839| | 7076.321437 | 2795.159972| | | 32.035233| 7075.197703| 7075.247279| 7075.051260| 2549.002594| | | 47.149791| 6101.898485| | | 30.023158| 7081.118893| 1226.576908| | | 130.118504| | 121.111432| 0.021861| 8.504272| 7074.886460 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating HEWITT, Sally and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit30| 3814.263085| 66.048853| 82.296076| | | 3855.098562| | 1897.537307| 35.000000
| 3633.476303| 70.032140| | | 682.151380| 591.450804| 530.653444| | 7074.904348 | 2796.558271| | | 32.038650| 7074.894134| 7075.028792| 7075.290314| 2549.315821| | | 47.159049| 6101.907668| | | 30.026002| 7074.896894| 1232.737902| | | 130.119600| | 121.112650| 0.001951| 0.571117| 7074.888673 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.713908; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297591; ONG, Ken, 0.852435; WOOD, Arron, 0.424267; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.736946.
===========================================================================================================
edit31| 3817.263085| 66.152503| 83.443641| | | 3855.202212| | 1898.537307| 36.000000
| 3635.476303| 71.032140| | | 682.151380| 591.526061| 530.653444| | 7074.904348 | 2796.558271| | | 32.038650| 7075.191725| 7075.028792| 7075.588335| 2550.422200| | | 48.306614| 6118.055233| | | | 7075.495652| 1233.737902| | | 130.119600| | 121.112650| 0.001952| 1.765487| 7074.888673 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating O'BRIEN, Sue and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit32| 3817.549177| 66.152503| 83.443641| | | 3856.060488| | 1898.537307| 37.000000
| 3635.762395| 71.032140| | | 682.151380| 595.514562| 530.653444| | 7074.904348 | 2817.540143| | | | 7075.489316| 7075.326801| 7075.588335| 2550.422200| | | 49.306614| 6118.055233| | | | 7076.348087| 1233.927684| | | 130.119600| | 123.112650| 0.001952| 3.213522| 7074.888673 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating THIEL, Philip and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit33| 3821.652827| 70.152503| 84.443641| | | 3857.060488| | 1911.537307|
| 3639.762395| 74.032140| | | 683.151380| 596.514562| 530.653444| | 7074.904348 | 2817.540143| | | | 7075.533230| 7075.326801| 7075.588335| 2550.422200| | | 50.306614| 6118.055233| | | | 7077.200522| 1234.927684| | | 132.119600| | 123.112650| 0.001953| 4.109876| 7074.888672 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating CRAGG, David and transferring votes.
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edit34| 3822.652827| 72.603459| 84.443641| | | 3861.058027| | 1911.537307|
| 3640.494457| 76.946184| | | 685.151380| 597.957257| 530.653444| | 7076.078616 | 2818.704855| | | | 7076.903754| 7078.711655| 7079.311527| 2569.603572| | | | 6118.055233| | | | 7080.955343| 1235.367507| | | 133.695333| | 123.112650| 0.001972| 17.517545| 7074.888670 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating WEI, Hope and transferring votes.
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edit35| 3927.117051| | | | | 3926.821374| | 1961.949583|
| 3704.921513| | | | 726.656907| 619.886180| 534.946876| | 7098.576906 | 2829.471556| | | | 7085.234464| 7087.500353| 7088.017660| 2576.381530| | | | 6145.535136| | | | 7108.992020| 1251.988898| | | | | | 0.001993| 93.878063| 7074.888668 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating D'CRUZ, Emily Lee; RUBBO, Mark Dattilo; DUTTA, Roshena; VISA, Moti; and van der CRAATS, | Anthony and transferring votes.
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edit36| 3927.174319| | | | | 3927.076118| | 1961.968716|
| 3705.060607| | | | 726.680702| 619.926426| 534.970048| | 7074.960281 | 2852.692689| | | | 7074.949182| 7079.292730| 7088.500367| 2594.440318| | | | 6145.644376| | | | 7074.954181| 1285.687965| | | | | | 0.020975| 18.223946| 7074.886559 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.711526; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.297157; ONG, Ken, 0.848346; WOOD, Arron, 0.423513; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.735581.
===========================================================================================================
edit37| 3935.174319| | | | | 3931.759193| | 1964.671559|
| 4200.832957| | | | 729.957948| 621.121828| | | 7078.517911 | 2856.558111| | | | 7076.223532| 7080.010228| 7089.218779| 2595.761180| | | | 6149.644376| | | | 7078.377503| 1286.149595| | | | | | 0.020981| 27.915163| 7074.886558 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating ANDERSON, Gerard and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit38| 3938.080881| | | | | 3935.023612| | 1967.671559|
| 4201.832957| | | | 1325.657918| | | | 7081.579826 | 2858.583986| | | | 7076.840513| 7080.442581| 7092.360525| 2598.282019| | | | 6151.247196| | | | 7079.225849| 1287.149595| | | | | | 0.020983| 36.016504| 7074.886558 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating FISCHL, Leesa and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit39| 3946.877593| | | | | 3938.490441| | 1970.602752|
| 4210.103716| | | | 1327.873343| | | | 7937.112099 | 3206.233933| | | | 7081.541914| 7085.730856| 7098.495490| 2603.796246| | | | 6167.043337| | | | 7100.075214| | | | | | | 0.023066| 928.523938| 7074.886327 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating PAGANO, Carlo and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit40| 3948.147964| | | | | 3944.094794| | 1970.898376|
| 4213.032042| | | | 1328.738535| | | | 7090.075658 | 4061.350223| | | | 7075.271324| 7078.166031| 7086.226359| 2631.822312| | | | 6169.424145| | | | 7076.720471| | | | | | | 0.031766| 32.033043| 7074.885360 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after transferring surplus votes. Keep values of candidates who have exceeded the threshold: OKE, Cathy, | 0.634232; LOUEY, Kevin, 0.296878; ONG, Ken, 0.845337; WOOD, Arron, 0.422865; and PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley, | 0.733135.
===========================================================================================================
edit41| 3972.231773| | | | | 5124.970329| | 1987.619632|
| 4234.027803| | | | | | | | 7102.014356 | 4070.618741| | | | 7076.854617| 7079.636280| 7088.028072| 2636.527421| | | | 6183.035621| | | | 7118.403571| | | | | | | 0.031784| 90.510106| 7074.885358 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating RAHAMAN, Azeezur and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit42| 5776.173831| | | | | 5176.777337| | |
| 4304.654339| | | | | | | | 7110.553649 | 4076.927244| | | | 7080.658986| 7083.346009| 7091.954027| 2638.341667| | | | 6197.962953| | | | 7136.618149| | | | | | | 0.031809| 128.704045| 7074.885355 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating DOWNING, Luke S and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit43| 5786.826143| | | | | 5185.982055| | |
| 6849.105530| | | | | | | | 7115.162331 | 4082.420685| | | | 7085.093048| 7092.473037| 7121.185887| | | | | 6208.932815| | | | 7146.786423| | | | | | | 0.032046| 186.274081| 7074.885329 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating JETTER, Carl and transferring votes.
===========================================================================================================
edit44| 6272.692129| | | | | 8642.433683| | |
| 6878.960219| | | | | | | | 7139.383871 | | | | | 7091.972663| 7101.312931| 7131.413829| | | | | 6230.508089| | | | 7185.290275| | | | | | | 0.032311| 1842.495458| 7074.885299 |-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Count after eliminating LEPPERT, Rohan and transferring votes. Candidate MAYNE, Stephen has reached the threshold | and is elected. The election is over since the number of candidates remaining is equal to the number of seats. | Candidates FOSTER, Richard; CHAMBERLIN, Kevin; and WATTS, Jackie are elected.
Winners are FOSTER, Richard; MAYNE, Stephen; CHAMBERLIN, Kevin; OKE, Cathy; LOUEY, Kevin; WOOD, Arron; PINDER-MORTIMER, Beverley; WATTS, Jackie; and ONG, Ken.
=====
Page quality issues
editI concur with the comment above that this page is generally poor, and would support at least the removal of Section Three under WP:OR, as well as the clarification issues metioned, if not outright deletion. For the time being I have just deleted the most seriously non-neutral and misleading original research claim from Section Three. Therealsleepycat (talk) 07:13, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
The two scenarios on the page match if you fix 2 bugs with common STV tallying.
editThe results listed as "Hare" results in scenario 1 and 2 are not consequences of the Hare quota, they're consequences of 2 unrelated bugs in standard STV tallying procedure.
I explain these bugs here: http://blog.opavote.com/2016/06/guest-post-rethinking-stv-fundamentals.html
When you correct the bugs, the Hare results come out the same as the Droop results (with or without the bug fixes).
So....
Kevin Baastalk 00:01, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
here's my spreadsheet of test cases: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18AN5xli49l39Fh5bRQerLPF0iT5AJpEjY6dvUzk-TUI/edit#gid=0
Note case 1 and 2 are the scenarios on this page.
Kevin Baastalk 00:02, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
Scenario 3
editarticle says
Shanahan Chamberlin for Melbourne did not have enough first-preference votes to elect one candidate (under Droop) but does under Hare
But that does not make sense to me as Hare is larger than Droop. and the article says that Hare is larger than Droop. 68.150.205.46 (talk) 07:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- As the article says
- The Hare quota requires a larger number of votes to elect a member, so reduces the number of votes available for the fourth Doyle member, putting Kevin Chamberlin ahead.
- It is not that Chamberlin has easier time making quota under Hare than under Droop but that the Doyle team is not able to take four seats under Hare, as its early winners have fewer surplus votes to go to the fourth candidate.
- under STV you can win without quota, at the end. so size of quota (achieving quota) is not all that determines who wins. 2604:3D09:8880:11E0:0:0:0:7044 (talk) 20:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)