Talk:Commemoration of Stepan Bandera

Biased warning about unsourced article

There appears to be ample sources and notes for this article, so there doesn't appear to be any reason for the warning template at the top of the article other than perhaps a politically biased attempt to censor or question the authenticity of the text. Silvanus93 (talk) 07:55, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

I know he's a contentious fascist, but I'm trying to figure out which side would benefit from having fewer sources. Wikipedia is built on reliable sources. Every article is subject to that standard. In a list like this especially, it would be ideal to have at least one source that confirms the existence of each monument. Jyamine (talk) 15:22, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

I've added sources for all but two monuments. Some of them can be easily found via Google maps, too, just need to use the Ukrainian city name + the Ukrainian word for monument (~пам'ятник) + the name Bandera in Cyrillic. Nakonana (talk) 20:00, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Change article name

I suggest the name of this article be changed to Commemoration of Stepan Bandera, a more general name in line with other articles. -- Jabbi (talk) 23:46, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

For background this is based on this discussion: Talk:Stepan Bandera#Splitting proposal, and is so that things like street signs etc. can be included on the list Tristario (talk) 01:53, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Even if we don't change the name I don't think it would be much of a stretch to include content about things like street signs in this article Tristario (talk) 09:21, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Mapping

I just had a conversation with a Putin suppprter, who imagined that he had "read on Wikipedia that every [sic] town in Ukraine has a Bandera street and Bandera monument." My disbelief was dismissed with "Or maybe THEY have censored it in the meantime."

Imagine my disapointment when I arrived on this here article.

Wanting to know more, I looked at it in more detail, and found that there is a most remarkable geographical bias.

Consequently, a map of the distribution of Bandera memorial sites in Ukraine would seem a highly valuable addition to this article. Especially so since Putinist propaganda apparently utilizes this article as "proof", i.e. as a tool for aiding and abetting crimes against humanity. 22:18, 1 August 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8071:5BD0:D4C0:0:0:0:752E (talk)

Text in the lede incongruent with recent news

In 2022, after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the historian Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe stated that neither Stepan Bandera or the OUN are a symbols of the current Ukrainian government and Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy is not presenting Bandera or war criminals as national heroes. Nevertheless, the memory of Bandera can be found in Ukraine

I think since 2022 the situation has changed. This Ukrainian source[1] reports that the "General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" celebrated the founding of the UPA and Roman Shukhevych. The source says that October 14 is precisely the national day dedicated to commemorating the UPA. I think this part should be put in the body of the article and this new information should be added. Mhorg (talk) 14:09, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Quote please? ManyAreasExpert (talk) 14:55, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Сьогодні, 14 жовтня, в Україні відзначають День створення Української повстанської армії (УПА). [...] дата річниці заснування УПА залишається незмінною, її вшановують саме 14 жовтня.

"Today, October 14, Ukraine marks the Day of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA). [...] the date of the anniversary of the founding of the UPA remains unchanged, it is commemorated on October 14."

“Сьогодні, 14 жовтня – День створення Української Повстанської Армії. Саме цю символічну дату закріпила Президія керівного органу Української Головної Визвольної Ради на чолі з Романом Шухевичем у своїй постанові від 30 травня 1947 року, і вже 14 жовтня 1947 року УПА вперше святкувала свою річницю — 5 років від дня створення”, – сказано в повідомленні Генштабу

"Today, 14 October, is the Day of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. It was this symbolic date that was fixed by the Presidium of the governing body of the Ukrainian Main Liberation Council headed by Roman Shukhevych in its resolution of 30 May 1947, and on 14 October 1947, the UPA celebrated its first anniversary - 5 years since its creation," the General Staff said in a statement.

Source here.[2] Mhorg (talk) 15:11, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

So
reports that the "General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" celebrated the founding of the UPA and Roman Shukhevych
is not in source. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 15:15, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

The source quoted the original post of "General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine"[3] The scandal was also reported by Ukrainian academic Marta Havryshko.[4] Mhorg (talk) 15:20, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Original post from Ukrainian parliament (June 2022) praising Roman Shukhevych:[5]

💪"We fight not because we hate those in front of us, but because we love those behind us!” On June 30, 115 years ago, Roman Shukhevych, General-Corporal, Commander-in-Chief of the UPA, was born, the Committee on Humanitarian and Information Policy informs. Under the command of Roman Shukhevych, the UPA became a real horror for the occupiers in the mid-twentieth century. [...] The commander of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, General-Corporal Roman Shukhevych (“Taras Chuprynka”), was killed in battle with the Russian occupiers on March 5, 1950. “During the following decades of communist totalitarianism, the memory of Ukrainian insurgents still frightens the Kremlin imperialists,” the UINP historians note.

In the face of this blatant evidence we should rewrite the article. Mhorg (talk) 15:37, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

... based on primary sources, on a subject not related to the article. Good idea (not). ManyAreasExpert (talk) 15:40, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Pryamiy is not a primary source.[6] Please do not twist the article in the face of this evidence. Mhorg (talk) 15:59, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

So you are getting back to Talk:Commemoration of Stepan Bandera#c-Manyareasexpert-20241014151500-Mhorg-20241014151100 . The answer is the same. Nothing about celebration nor Bandera there. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 16:26, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Bandera was the leader of OUN and UPA, so this is all relevant Mhorg (talk) 19:39, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

That would be a WP:OR. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 19:48, 14 October 2024 (UTC)