Talk:Cationic Polymerization

Second Peer Review

Section 1

The group did a really good job of addressing all of the concerns I had with their page. They added a few more references which were from current literature. Also although the page is still fairly long, it does not seem unnecessarily long, the group does not have extraneous information that could be cut out.

Section 2

The web-page is fairly suitable for first time users and for those who wish to understand the topic better. The only section that may be confusing to first time users might be the kinetics section but the group has the link shown for kinetics in general which will help first time users to understand kinetics a bit better. Even though the group uses terms that may be confusing for first time users, by using diagrams and links to other wiki pages it will help readers to understand the topic better.

There is a very logical flow to the page. I really liked the format of the page. It made cationic polymerization a bit easier to understand by first talking about common monomers, then the actual polymerization process (including the effects of solvent and temperature on the polymerization, and then by finishing with kinetics and common applications. Also by breaking down the synthesis section into initiation, propagation, and termination I think it will make the kinetics section easier to understand.

The contents of each section do justify its length. Even though there are many different sections, I think this will help general users to understand cationic polymerization because if they are confused about a particular section they do not have to search the entire page to find it but can simply look for its sub-section in the contents section. Although the synthesis section of the page is very long it contains a lot of relevant information: all of the steps of the synthesis along with solvent effects, types of initiators, and effects of temperature. It does not seem that any section is over or under emphasized. I felt that the group did a great job of simply writing what was relevant to the topic without going overboard.

Their sandbox does satisfy the aims and objectives listed in their outline. The group had set out to focus on expanding the synthesis information and applications, and including information on kinetics. They had also wanted to include images to help clarify the concepts. I feel that the group did just this in their sandbox.

As I had stated before, the group does a really great job of referencing important terms which will allow general users to get more information on complicated topics such as kinetics or confusing terms, and will help them to understand the page better. The images do meet the guidelines described in the handbook. All of the chemdraw structures are chemically accurate and they are large enough that one can understand them easily. The images are aligned properly with the text. Furthermore, all of the images do a really good job of showing what the group is stating on the page. I think the images will help general users to understand the mechanism of cationic polymerization.

The references are complete, the references for the most part are from textbooks, but there are a few from journals. Given what the Wikipedia page contains it makes sense that most of the resources are from textbooks because it focuses on what cationic polymerization actually is and only touches on the applications of it. So it seems as if the references are complete.

The overall presentation of the page is very good; however I have one issue with the equations shown in the kinetics section. For the rate of termination, I thought that both termination by chain transfer (from the initiator) and termination by combination with an anionic fragment from the counter ion should be considered in the rate of termination. I know that the group states that they are only considering termination by combination with an anionic fragment from the counterion in their equation but it seems as if they should include both. This would also change the equation for the degree of polymerization. Other than this I think the page is done very well. I really like the layout of the page, along with all of the images. I think they will enable general users to understand cationic polymerization.

The group has fulfilled all of the requirements of the project, they have six sections (each including several subsections). Furthermore, they have eleven figures which exceeds the minimum of three that is required in the project. They have several sources (eleven) including textbooks and current literature.

Section 3

The group’s site covers cationic polymerization. They broke down their site into several sections first a general introduction, followed by common monomers in cationic polymerizations, synthesis/ mechanism of cationic polymerization, living polymerizations, kinetics, and finally applications of cationic polymerization. I think they did a really good job with their page, especially considering what the page had on it previously. The sections that they added, along with all of the figures will really help general users and also people who are knowledgeable in science learn about cationic polymerization. There is not much that needs to be improved in my opinion, if they just check their rate equations for termination in the kinetics. I may be wrong, but it was just the way that we had learned it in class. Other than this, I really liked the revised page. Great job!

polymersgrpmem (talk)

Second Peer Review by shin72000

Section 1

It is well defined and well organized. As you mention, you revamp current Wikipedia page of cationic polymerization greatly. Objectives are clearly understandable. There is nothing to change it.

Section 2

The current page has no figure. So it is hard to understand concept but there are a lot of figures to clarify concept in your page. It is really helpful. At the first figure, current page has only short explanation but revamped page shows drawing of chemical structure. So it helps understand why there is different reactivity between monomers. The second figure shows heterocyclic monomers. Also it helps extend view of monomers. Usually, person who does not have background of chemistry or have little cannot think of various kinds of monomers. In synthesis, it flows well. Every figure is key point. It is good example of generation of carbenium ion. You point out relation between temperature and length of polymer chain. It is very useful. Engineers are really interested in the relation special for people who don’t have chemistry background. Also based on the same reason, effect of solvent and counterion is very useful. In termination, bimolecular transfer is good point. It is not only termination but also another way of new generation of propagation.

I think the next part, living polymerization, is minor flaw. The position of living polymerization might not be suitable. It might interrupt the flow of understanding explanation. I recommend to put it back after kinetic.

Kinetic part is hard for me usually. However, this one is really well organized and explained well. Degree of polymerization is strongly recommended. Application is really well expended because there is few example of application in current page. It is good point of mention about commercial companies. It shows variety of information. Figure 12 is a good example of showing real butyl rubber gloves. People may compare with other rubber gloves. Source of references are diverse. The references are from not only books but also journals. Every reference has link. It is really helpful.

Section 3

I think you did really good job. Everything is well organized and flowed well. This page is way better than current Wikipedia page. It shows lots of figures and fill with full of contents. It covers basic chemistry area to application generally. I think this page can embrace beginner to expert. It is well explained for beginners and good summary for experts. I may be wrong but there is a little flaw, position of living polymerization, however it is good link to living polymerization page. Also I like to highlight comparison of anionic polymerization as highlight word or chart. In conclusion, it is perfect and brilliant. shin72000 (talk)

Peer Review

Section 1

• The objectives for the new site are very clear and needed in order to improve the current Wikipedia site. The current site on cationic polymerization does not have a significant amount of information. It only covers (very briefly and with little detail) the types of monomers and initiators that are typically seen in these types of polymerizations and some of the commercial applications of cationic polymerization. Although nothing in this current site is incorrect, there are many grammatical mistakes which make it difficult to understand what the author is saying. Considering this, the new site seems very fitting. Even though the length is a bit long, all of the information contained in the outline seems relevant to cationic polymerizations. So as long as all of the sub-sections are a reasonable length, it should be a feasible amount of content for a typical Wikipedia page. There are several possible pages that one could link to from this page including links to Wikipedia pages about the monomers used (lactones, lactams, and cyclic amines), and steady state kinetics.

Section 2

• The length does seem appropriate for a Wikipedia site. Instead of simply jumping into the content of the Wikipedia page I think it might be better to have an introduction section where you just discuss cationic polymerizations, what they are, etc. I think this might help general users get a feel for the page before they are given all the chemical background on the topic. Other than this, I think that the sections are split well. There is a continuity and coherence to the site. Especially considering what the current page looks like, the revised page is very good. The current page does not go into detail about any aspect of cationic polymerizations, while the revised page will cover common monomers, solvents, detailed synthesis, kinetics, and current applications of cationic polymerizations just as stated in the objectives of your page.

Images

• The image of Gegen Ion Position is very well done. It is very neat and each polymer looks identical except for the orientation of the R-X group at the end, which is the purpose of the image. Although it is a small image, it seems that it will fit well in the section. However, by simply looking at the image without reading the text below it might be difficult for someone to realize that the backslash means solvent separated. Even so, it is difficult to show this pictorially, so I think the image along with the description below each image is sufficient to show the different ion positions. Overall, I think the image is done really well and will be able to help general users understand gegen ion position.

Section 3

• There is a good mix of literature sources, both from current literature and primary sources. However, it seems that you may need more sources from literature in order to be able to write about current research being done with cationic polymerizations. I understand that this is only an outline so more sources will probably be added, but I think it might be best to add more from current literature.

Overall Comments

• I thought you both did a great job on the outline and I look forward to seeing the new and improved Wikipedia page. Even though it was very well done, I think it might be helpful to have an introduction section just to inform readers of the purpose of the page and what will be discussed. This may just be personal preference but I think it might be best to discuss typical monomers and solvents used after you cover the synthesis of cationic polymerizations. It may help readers to understand why certain monomers and solvents are better suited for cationic polymerizations. Also, it might be a good idea to add more references from the current literature to support your content. Other than this, I think it’s a really good start to a Wikipedia page! Good Job!

By polymersgrpmem

polymersgrpmem (talk)

Peer Review by shin72000

Section 1

The objectives are great. Improving the current cationic polymerization page is necessary because there is not much explanation and supporting material. The most important thing is comparison to anionic polymerization. Comparison between cationic polymerization and anionic polymerization is easy to understand both polymerizations.

Section 2

The outline looks good. There are a lot of good categories provided. Monomer, solvent and overall synthesis are well organized. Specially, the comparison of solvents is good point. However, I cannot catch other comparisons. The page mentions presence of an electron-donating group. How about an electron-withdrawing group? There might be main article after outline but it is a little hard to guess. Both polymerizations have common parts like solvent effect and different parts in kinetics. In addition there would be lots of comparisons because cationic polymerization is a counterpart of anionic polymerization in objectives already. If the outline is reorganized to compare between two polymerizations, it would be easier to understand cationic polymerization.

Images

The image is good. It is very well positioned and adequate size. Also the image is very important because it relates to anionic polymerization. So, it is useful not only comparison but also understanding cationic polymerization. However, if there is an arrow to show reactivity, it would be perfect.

Section 3

It is great to mix with books and journals. Usually, general information comes from book. Current Wiki page cites only books and a lecture note. But you cite journals and it looks more specific. Also, it is good link for who need more specific data.

Overall Comments

Overall, it is great start. As it is in objectives, revamping Wiki page is awesome because current Wiki page is lack of information. Comparison with cationic polymerization and anionic polymerization is great and key point to understand cationic polymerization. The image is good concept to understand nature of ion pair in cationic polymerization. The outline is well organized. It is easy to follow concept and steps of cationic polymerization compared with current Wiki page. Just, make sure that the comparisons between cationic polymerization and anionic polymerization. It was hard to guess how to compare both polymerizations from the outline. Both polymerization could be compared in many expects. The references are good and it might be better add one more current paper. The paper in 2000 looks a little bit older. Also it might help to current applications. In general, it is a great outline!

By shin72000

shin72000 (talk)