Talk:Carmen Sandiego's Great Chase Through Time/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: AdrianGamer (talk · contribs) 15:57, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

It will be my first time reviewing a GA article so I hope I didn't write something useless here. Also forgive me if I made mistakes about grammar or anything similar.

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and y:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Initial comments

Lead

• You don't need to italicized the game's name in the disambiguation link because everything there is already italicized.
  •  Done--Coin945 (talk) 13:42, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Issue is not addressed. AdrianGamer (talk) 15:39, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
      • A whoops. I think I've done it right this time.  Done
        • Issue is still there. I'll address it myself. AdrianGamer (talk) 09:52, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
• You don't need to specify PC in infobox, instead you can simply call them Microsoft Windows or Macintosh
  • Again, a remnant of an old version before I started working on the article.  Done--Coin945 (talk) 13:42, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
• The game was called "edutainment point-and-click adventure game" but was called "Educational/adventure/science fiction/historical" in the infobox. Usually they are the same.
  • The latter is a remnant of a previous incarnation of the article. Fixed.  Done
    • It is also recommended that you use "," instead of "/" in the infobox
      •  Done
• "making it the second Time video game in the Carmen Sandiego franchise" - Carmen Sandiego need to be italicized.
  •  Done
• "The game is recommended for ages 9 and up". This statement, generally speaking, is not necessary.
  •  Done
• "they will have the tools to chase and capture Carmen in the final case." You have the tools or you gain/receive the tools in Case 18?
  • Should be clearer now.  Done
• "overwhelmingly positive reception" - "overwhelmingly" not necessary
  •  Done
• Los Angeles Times needed to be wikilinked and italicized.
  •  Done
• Generally speaking, we don't have quotes for the lead section. You need to paraphrase them and make the paragraph shorter. Change it to something like "Element X and Y are praised by critics. Critic A call it "a fun game" It was awarded multiple year-end accolades such as the Award B"
  • The critical reception section has been piling up for a while. It's become really unwieldy and I'm really not looking forward to the process of chopping it down and summerising it in the intro. This is not one of my strong suits. (Even trying to sift through it all in the edit screen is making my head hurt). Can you suggest anyone who might like to take a look at it?--Coin945 (talk) 13:47, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
    • I don't recall anyone that is particularly good at writing reception for video games. But writing a reception part is actually not difficult. One good example of short reception section is Mirror's Edge, short but focused. I recommend you to try. I do one here as an example, may not be the best though. AdrianGamer (talk) 15:03, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Mitch Gitman of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette is also positive about the game, praising the game's production value, music and animation, as well as the game for being creative. He summarized the game by calling it "ingenious and innovative".

For lead,

Carmen Sandiego's Great Chase Through Time received critical acclaim upon release, with critics praising its story, soundtrack, puzzle-solving and historical content. It was awarded Computer Edutainment Game of the Year in the 1998 D.I.C.E. Awards.

History

• "featuring the a cappella band Rockapella and starring Lynne Thigpen as the Chief." the and a don't usually go along together.
  • Fixed. Acapella is one word.  Done--Coin945 (talk) 17:38, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
• "Broderbund had released Space, as well as Junior Detective (based on the animated TV series), and were now planning on rebooting their most popular titles for a new generation" change "were" to "was", remove "now"
  •  Done
• Chicago Tribune need to be italicized
  • Removed so N/A Done
• "the 1997 Time video game" Time need to be italicized
•  Done
• What is ACME? What is its full name?
  • Interestingly enough, while Carmen's V.I.L.E agency stands for "Villains' International League of Evil", I don't think ACME actually stands for anything...--Coin945 (talk) 14:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
• "during the production of 1993's Myst, but Time ultimately became the first game in the Carmen Sandiego franchise" - Myst, Time, Carmen Sandiego need to be italicized
  •  Done
• Carmen Sandiego Word Detective need to be italicized
  •  Done
• "lack of interest in the point-and-click genre" - Can be expanded briefly (who and when)
  •  Removed
• Word, Math, and Thinkquick, since they are called a game, I assume they need to be italicized as well
  •  Done
• "Sure enough" is not necessary
• I personally don't think that quote from Business Wire is necessary because it didn't tell readers anything.
• "This re-release can when The Learning Company changed the game's title to Carmen Sandiego's Great Chase Through Time after acquiring Broderbund's properties." Can and when won't get along together
  • Supposed to be "came when". Didn't like the grammar so rephrased.  Done
• World History Simulations needed to be italicized.
• School Edition of the game need to be paraphrased.
• "David Sacherri described Time designers Stuart Lowder and Leila Joslyn as "wonderful people to work for" - Time needed to be italicized

Plot

• "On the opening screen, the player can choose to sign into the ACME roster to begin a game, or continue with a saved one, or create a customized game by selecting one or more cases (a feature recommended for teachers)" is not necessary for a plot section. You may move it to the gameplay section instead
• I personally encourage you to merge the Synopsis section to the plot section. The Synopsis section may also be too long.
• This section should focus more on plot. Information about gameplay is mixed in the second paragraph.
• After merging them together, you need to make the section more plot-ish. It's like telling a story from a third-person perspective. Keep it short and only cite the important events that has a dynamic impact on the story. You may see some examples here. There is one example I particularly like is the plot section of Dragon Age: Origins, in which it summarized the majority of missions with 1 sentence only - "After the player successfully obtains the assistance of all the primary factions." I think the same things can applied here, something like "After the player has successfully captured all Carmen's henchmen, the player possesses the ability to travel directly through time and capture Carmen."
• You don't need "must" in this section, and you don't need to cite the case number.

Gameplay

Generally well-written, but

• "When the player arrives in the new location" - Does the game only have 1 location?
  • Clarified.  Done--Coin945 (talk) 05:55, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
• May need some explanation on what "Time Cuffs" is.
  • Clarified.  Done--Coin945 (talk) 05:55, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
• "All the text within the Chronopedia was reviewed and approved by Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc" - Is this Encyclopædia something important?
  • Is the Encyclopedia Brittanica important..? Yes!--Coin945 (talk) 05:55, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Historical accuracy

• Too much details are cited and they are not needed because most of them is not notable. Though it is beyond the GA review criteria I think it will be better if you simply get rid of them.

Critical reception

• Reception template is not really necessary if only 2 fields can be filled.
• Too much quoting, which may violate copyright
• Also too long

Awards and nominations

• Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego? needed to be italicized

References

• We seldom need sources in the lead section. Try to move these sources to somewhere else.
• Each sentence or paragraph in the body better ended with a source. I notice that some of them is not ended with a source, including the last sentence in the Background, Development and the Plot section
• You need more sources for the design section.
• I need to login if I want to see the content of source from ""Curtin University Library", is there any sources that is more accessible?
• Source 7 is dead
• I do not get access to the last 2 external links
• Publisher field in a citation should not and never be archive.org
• Youtube source is not recommended, unless the video is produced by a reliable organization or the developer itself.
• Source 34 looks like that it is user-submitted content.

Images

• All of your gameplay images need some cleanup.
  • Images are not one of the things I'm good at here at Wikipedia. Do you know anybody who'd be willing to give me a hand in this regard?--Coin945 (talk) 14:32, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
    • There is lots of examples available for this. Just copy the image summary and licensing from a GA screenshot, change some information and you are good to go.
      • Apart from the box art, I'm not sure the other images pass WP:NFCC#8. There's no vital reason for visually depicting the characters, which can be adequately described in the prose. If anything, a screenshot of typical gameplay would be nice. czar ⨹ 20:35, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Overall

Overall it is a well-written article, especially considering this is an old game, but the plot and the reception section need some improvements. A lot of minor issues needed to be addressed. (italicizing, wiklinking etc.) I also encourage you to rearrange the section, with gameplay being the first section, followed by story, development and reception. I will leave it on hold for a week, and if issues are addressed, the article to good to go. Good luck. AdrianGamer (talk) 15:57, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much for offering to give this article a GA review. I greatly appreciate you putting in the time and effort. I think the hard part is done - actually finding sources for such an old game in the edutainment genre. Now I just need to do some brutal copyedits and go over everything with a fine tooth comb. Today was actually my birthday, so I won't get on it just yet, but stay tuned. :)--Coin945 (talk) 17:43, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Happy Birthday! I hope this GA review can mean a birthday present to you! AdrianGamer (talk) 03:20, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I find the notion of copyediting this monster of an article really difficult, and really think I need some assistance in getting it to where it needs to be. I have skills in certain areas but need help in others, and I think the article is reaching the point where it needs someone more experienced than I) who knows what a finished product should look like. And as a reward, they can add an edutainment game from a very famous and loved franchise to their list of contributions!--Coin945 (talk) 14:36, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Yeah... with a week-long deadline, I'm worried I won't have enough time to spend fixing up the remainder of this article. I don't want to waste your time, so I figured I'd post this now rather than be too inactive and piss you off.--Coin945 (talk) 15:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Do you want me to close the review so that you can have much more time to address all the issues I mentioned above? AdrianGamer (talk) 09:06, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

I am sorry but I have to close the review now. After you have addressed all the issues you may re-submit your article and I will have another look at it. Sorry, but Carmen Sandiego's Great Chase Through Time cannot be promoted to Good Article this time. AdrianGamer (talk) 05:14, 19 April 2015 (UTC)