Talk:Bobbi Kristina Brown/GA1

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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GA Review

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Reviewer: Vaticidalprophet (talk · contribs) 04:26, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Picking this up. This is a complex subject to write about at quality-assessed level and a very tough topic to bring to GA. Regardless of how this review closes, you've done solid work at writing an encyclopedic treatment of it. For a good example to look to, I'd recommend you read Caroline Flack -- a recently passed GA about a woman in the tabloid eye who died young -- as an example of the kind of direction you want to go in here.

Having given you that example to study, I'm a bit concerned about this article's general focus. I think as currently written it's kind of pseudobiographical (I don't think that essay is particularly great -- really should write my own on pseudobios -- but it gets across the broad idea that the article has focus issues). To some degree this is inescapable, as the coverage of Brown does revolve that much around her death, to the point there's probably an argument to make that this article should be "Death of Bobbi Kristina Brown" instead, but I think there's the space to make it a more fleshed-out Flack-style biography. I'm particularly concerned about the focus on tabloid controversies. That is a lot of what we know about Brown as a person, but I think Wikipedia has a duty to be better to a dead 22-year-old than tabloids are. I'd recommend reviewing your sources, seeing if there's any really solid biographical information you're lacking here, and looking at the Flack example to see how biographies on tabloid figures can reach GA level and discuss their subjects in an encyclopedic, biographical way. Vaticidalprophet 04:26, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

A note that I'm watching the article and the edits, and appreciating the work being put in. As a suggestion, a fair amount of pre-coma coverage of Brown revolves around her acting with Tyler Perry, which currently is only mentioned in the filmography table and seems worth discussing further. Her Vulture obit may be of interest to the article in general. Vaticidalprophet 15:58, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

@Vaticidalprophet: Thank you for the suggestions! I'll incorporate the Tyler Perry and Vulture info. I've finished with the lead, early life, adult life, and posthumous documentaries sections sourcing wise so far today. I've been consulting WP:RSP and making sure to upgrade any questionable sourcing (eg, International Business Times --> NYT). --Kbabej (talk) 16:24, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Looking good. As a note, source reliability is important, but it's also contextual. IBT to NYT is a good change in all cases, but you don't need to purge every borderline source (after all, if they needed to be purged on sight they'd be 'bad sources', not 'borderline sources') -- if you find yourself choosing between losing something important to the article or keeping a questionable source, leave it where it is for now and I'll bring it up if it's a bad case. Vaticidalprophet 17:05, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

@Vaticidalprophet: That makes sense. Okay, I believe the sourcing in the article is better at this point. I've removed IBTimes, etc, and replaced with RS. The only section I haven't reviewed is the discography section (mostly because I need to look into if Youtube can be used for discography. I know about WP:RSPYT, but if the video shows her performing does that make a difference?). What are your thoughts about moving forward? --Kbabej (talk) 17:23, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

(As note, I have the GAN watchlisted and don't need pings.) I think things are already looking better, although I noticed a significant omission when reviewing the current bibliography. You don't have any references to the book Whitney & Bobbi Kristina except one acknowledging its existence, even though it's likely one of the more comprehensive pieces written about the whole deal. I'm guessing the issue is not being able to secure a copy (it of course might be "not having a particularly positive view of Halperin" -- which is very understandable, but I'd contextually consider him as reliable as most journalistic coverage of this topic would be), but I've gotten an ebook and can send you an email tomorrow-my-time with some excerpts (it's currently the early hours of the morning here...). Vaticidalprophet 17:37, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Good to know about the pinging. And thank you for sending some excerpts my way! I did not have access to the contents of the book. That'll help with fleshing things out. And get some good sleep! --Kbabej (talk) 17:53, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Here we are -- are you able to turn your Special:EmailUser function on? The protocol for sending sources to other editors requires email, which is why I ask. If you're concerned about privacy, you can make a Wikipedia-exclusive address for it. Vaticidalprophet 05:13, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

I believe I have turned that on now! —Kbabej (talk) 22:02, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

I received the book- thank you! I am out of town and thought I would have time to edit, but I haven’t had the opportunity. I’ll be back the evening of 7/14, but I’m thinking there’s probably a timeframe on these and I don’t want to monopolize your time. What are your thoughts? Thank you! —Kbabej (talk) 03:54, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

WP:NODEADLINE :) I am self-admittedly sometimes slow to responding to GANs myself as both nominator and reviewer; I can work as long as you need to. Vaticidalprophet 05:47, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

That's wonderful! Thank you - I'll start working on it again on 7/14. --Kbabej (talk) 14:52, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Vaticidalprophet. I'm reading the book now and am up to chapter 10. It looks as if it covers Whitney's life well, but Bobbi Kristina's is all focused on the coma/incident so far. I think that is covered in depth enough on the article; if anything, it could be pared down a little to give some balance. Do you know if Halperin expands on Bobbi Kristina's earlier life later in the book? Thank you! --Kbabej (talk) 18:38, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello Vaticidalprophet. Wanted to check in and see if we were able to move forward with the GA review. I found most of the book that I got through to be about Whitney's past and the accident with Bobbi Kristina. I think the article as it stands is the most biographical it's going to get (at this point at least). Thank you! --Kbabej (talk) 19:33, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Review will not be completed

I pinged Vaticidalprophet on their talk page, and they will not be returning to this review. Accordingly, I have returned the nomination to the pool of those awaiting a reviewer without any loss of seniority; the next review will take place on a different page from this one. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:39, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.