Talk:Beaver/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Dunkleosteus77 (talk · contribs) 14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Dunkleosteus77

• I was wondering when someone would get to Beaver. Are you eventually trying to get to FA?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Yep. LittleJerry (talk) 15:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• Why do you say Holarctic instead of the Northern Hemisphere?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Holarctic is more specific. LittleJerry (talk) 14:20, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Well if you're worried about being specific, it'd be better to say "North America and Western Eurasia" because it's easier to understand and excludes the Sahara, Arabia, East Asia   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:11, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

That would be redundant since it then mentions the North American and Eurasian beaver in the next sentence. LittleJerry (talk) 00:34, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Then saying Holarctic is redundant   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:29, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

• "between the pelvis and base of the tail" well of course, where else would it be?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:33, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• "the nasal openings" why not nostrils?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• How did they get from America to Eurasia in the Oligocene?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Doesn't say. LittleJerry (talk) 15:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

According to this, the Bering land bridge has been open for most of the Cenozoic   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  05:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 02:13, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

• "The more basal castorids had several 'primitive' features" this goes without saying, otherwise they wouldn't be considered basal   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• "such as more complex occlusion between the cheek teeth" do you think you could reword this so you use bite instead of occlusion   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

No, occlusion and bite are not the same. LittleJerry (talk) 15:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Occlusion is how the teeth make or near contact with each other, i. e., the act of biting   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:57, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

No. Contact between the teeth at rest is also occlusion and is not biting. There is a reason why that have separate articles. LittleJerry (talk) 02:20, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

• "More derived castorids would have..." I feel like this is redundant   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• "Members of this group appear to have been less specialized for aquatic life" this makes it sound like less specialized to predecessors   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• "The fur comes in two forms; the longer, coarser guard hairs and softer, woolier underfur." this is typically how fur works; it'd be better to just go into the measurements   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• "The lips can close behind the teeth" what?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

It doesn't go into detail but I'm guessing the lips can wrap around the incisors while sealing the rest of the closed mouth. LittleJerry (talk) 15:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• "and the tongue and epiglottis prevent water from flowing into the larynx and trachea" I mean this is one of the primary functions of the tongue   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Remove. LittleJerry (talk) 15:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• Castoreum is secreted via the urinary tract right?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes. LittleJerry (talk) 15:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• Do other rodents not have a cloaca?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

They don't. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

that'd be good to note "Unlike other rodents, beavers have one opening, a cloaca..."   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  04:56, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

the source doesn't compare them to other rodents in that regard. LittleJerry (talk) 14:10, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

• with the discussion on gradient, the measurements you give for river width are pretty specific which makes me think it's talking about a specific river instead of beaver-inhabited rivers in general. Also, "In some areas, beavers have been recorded using streams with gradients as high as 15%" implies that beavers can be found not infrequently in fast flowing waters, but isn't river width inversely proportional with gradient (unless I'm thinking about something else?) so it'd be flowing at the same slow speed as a lower gradient river   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

I have no idea. I'm just reporting what the sources say. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm worried that most people read "In some areas, beavers have been recorded using streams with gradients as high as 15%" and think some beavers swim in fast flowing waters when that's possibly not what the source is trying to say. What's the exact wording they use?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  04:58, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 13:28, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• If this is American English, "a herbivorous"→"an"   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Why do you say the bark of trees instead of tree bark?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• "with entrances another water"   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• "Beavers use three types of shelters" you should list them all out right here before explaining them   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• Does 6 meters around mean diameter or circumference?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk)

• 129 meters is a really specific number which makes me think it's not talking about beavers in general but a specific beaver in a specific place   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, but that statment is still factual.

No, if it's talking about a single observation, then it'd be better to say "one trail near Beavertown was recorded to be 129 m long" as opposed to the upper limit of beaver trail distance is 129 m   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  04:55, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 13:28, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Saying a trail can stretch as long as 129 m is still good info to have   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:00, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

• riparian is not a widely understood word, and since it just means riverside, it'd be better if you avoid the word in general   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:55, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• This demotes C. plicidens to subspecies as C. f. plicidens, and also identifies C. praefiber as a Pliocene ancestor of C. fiber   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  05:28, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. C. praefiber is more notable for the Eurasian beaver article. LittleJerry (talk) 13:28, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Why did you include C. californicus but not C. praefiber in the taxobox?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  23:26, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Because I didn't know it existed and there is no article on it. LittleJerry (talk) 02:00, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

You should at least mention all the species assigned to this genus, as this article is about all Castor, not just the living ones   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:29, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

• "Beaver dams serve to impound flowing water and submerge the entrance to their homes" this seems to imply they build a lodge before building a dam. Is this correct?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

No. LittleJerry (talk) 18:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• I think it's better to link to social monogamy or social monogamy in mammalian species (your choice) than pair bond   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't think it matters. LittleJerry (talk) 18:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, it's kinda weird how many articles we have for just monogamy; they all say about the same thing anyways   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:57, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

• "young beavers help their parents for reasons based on natural selection rather than kin selection" this adds more confusion than clarity   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• "The activity of castoreum has been credited to the accumulation of salicin from willow trees in the beaver's diet" you should probably specify this is the Eurasian beaver's diet   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• How much is £4 today roughly?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Its similar to the dollar I guess. Does it matter? LittleJerry (talk) 18:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Well it's more digestible for the reader to have the conversion of £4 in 1600s money to £550 in today's money or 80 days of a skilled tradesman's wages (according to [1])   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:57, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 14:10, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Since you're going to FAC, you should cite the conversion website too   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:44, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 21:49, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

It was helpful for the reader to visualize what you meant by luxury good when you had the going price for a beaver hat in a certain place and year   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:00, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't see the need to go through all of this on an article about an animal. This is very tedious. LittleJerry (talk) 01:58, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

It should take you 1 minute, maybe 2 if you're really trying to stretch it out, since you know exactly what source has the information, where the information is at, and the citation is already complete. You already had it there anyways, I don't get why you deleted it; really, all you have to do is revert your edit and check the year   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:29, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

• You should specify that Catholics aren't allowed to eat meat on Fridays during Lent   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• "They were identified as beavers by their testicles" what does this mean?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• When you say canids and felids, are you talking only about wolves and mountain lions?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:01, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

No, coyotes as well. I'm being as general as possible. LittleJerry (talk) 18:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

• "Beavers can have negative ecological effects as well" the way this is worded, it makes it sound like you're going to start talking about how beavers destroy habitats within their natural range, which you don't. Also, I imagine converting running streams to stagnant ponds affects some creatures or plants which don't reside in wetlands. Is there anything on this or is it entirely positive effects?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  02:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 13:46, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

• I think it'd be better if you sequestered beavers in urban environments into a separate subsection instead of hiding it in the last paragraph in Ecology   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  02:08, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Its only one sentence. LittleJerry (talk) 13:48, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

"Beavers also take agricultural crops like corn and sugar beets" makes it sound like beavers are an agricultural pest   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:44, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

So? I can't create another subsection based one a few sentences. LittleJerry (talk) 18:48, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

• As for sources, at FAC, they're going to point out the 2 news articles you cite in regard to beavers melting permafrost (which are likely citing some journal article), and the thesis per WP:SCHOLARSHIP ("Masters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence")   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  02:08, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 14:10, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

• At FAC, they might ask you to add a source for File:BeaverLodgeDiagram.svg   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  23:26, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Replaced. LittleJerry (talk) 23:47, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

They're going to ask for the source (as in the exact url) for File:Beaver lodge.jpg to verify it indeed comes from the USDA   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  19:00, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 02:09, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

• Is the discussion on the fur trade only talking about the North American beaver?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  23:26, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

That's what the sources focus on. LittleJerry (talk) 23:36, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Well could you find another source on the Eurasian beaver? It's odd that text on hunting Eurasian beavers is mostly missing but you say they were worse affected by I assume the fur trade than the North American beaver   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:11, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

That's all I can find. No source goes into detail on the killing of Eurasian beavers for fur. I made some rearrangments though. LittleJerry (talk) 19:17, 13 October 2020 (UTC)