Talk:Banjica concentration camp/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 13:41, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi 23 editor, I'll be glad to take this one, though be warned that it may take me 3-7 days to post a full review. I've read the previous review and will check some of the article's sources to see what emphasis they place on Jewish victims, since that seems to be Dan's main concern. We can check together about Dan's concerns re: unsourced information. The lack of retrieval dates he mentions is not an issue for the GA criteria, though it wouldn't do any harm to fill them in. I also think the selection of images (and their placement) is fine.

More to follow soon! Thanks in advance for your work on this one. As a side note, have you noticed how many concentration or death camps have gone through GA this month? You've got two up, Diannaa and I just did Auschwitz, and another user is doing Treblinka, which I also hope to review if no one beats me to it... -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:41, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

No, I haven't noticed all the camp nominations but its great that the quality of such articles is being improved. :) Anyway, I'll be glad to address any constructive comments you might have and I appreciate you taking this one on so quickly. Regards, 23 editor (talk) 20:17, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

On first pass, this article appears to cover main aspects, be neutral and stable, and to be well-sourced; again, I appreciate the work you've put in on this.

The biggest issue I see is that it appears to contain a good deal of close paraphrasing, which creates unintentional copyvio problems. Some sentences are well-summarized with original language, like "On 14 May, Jews were removed from all official posts and a series of anti-Jewish laws were passed which prohibited Jews from performing a variety of tasks that ranged from going to restaurants to riding streetcars." But I'm concerned that in other places the sentences from the sources are reproduced with only superficial changes to a few words. I've listed some examples below--this isn't comprehensive, but just the result of a few spotchecks.

• The phrase "who was known to have pro-Axis leanings," is word-for-word from the source
• "Afterwards, the Germans set up numerous concentration camps in Serbia with the intention of using them to incarcerate, torture and execute Jews, anti-fascists and those deemed "unworthy of life". " -- too close to the source in structure and phrasing
• "After German occupational authorities gave orders for its establishment in Belgrade, Mayor Dragomir Jovanović had the former 18th Infantry army barracks of the Royal Yugoslav Army converted into a concentration camp" --too close in structure and phrasing
• "The camp was notorious for its brutality, and executions were frequent and random" -- original says "Banjica was notorious for its brutality, and for everyday, frequently random, executions"
• "Despite this, imprisoned anti-fascists defied the Germans by singing Partisan songs, shouting their support for Tito and Stalin, and by holding lectures, discussions, one-act plays, recitals, and even folk song and dance performances on the campgrounds" -- almost word-for-word from source
• "the incineration of the corpses was organized by a unit of the Kommando 1005, headed by SS-Standartenführer [Colonel] Paul Blobel, the man responsible for erasing traces of German atrocities throughout German–occupied Europe" -- almost word-for-word from source

I don't mean to suggest that you've done anything sinister here, as close paraphrasing issues can be a gray area that I myself struggle with. For review purposes, though, these examples are closer than I'm comfortable with for the GA criteria, often adopting both the exact word choice and sentence structure of their sources, and I found them by only checking a few citations. It seems to me that this article is going to need a thorough check and rewrite to put it in more original language, and that this would best happen outside of the review process.

For this reason, I'm not listing the article at this time, though I hope you'll check and rewrite this content and submit again very soon; the article seems good in other respects. WP:PARAPHRASE has good suggestions for how to address this; in some cases, some of the more granular detail (like the types of camp events) may simply need to be cut. I'll also be glad to pitch in myself if there's a way I can help. Most of all, I'm sorry that Dan's irregular review means that you've had to have two fails on this in 48 hours. I hope the third time will be the charm for this important topic. Thanks and all best -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:47, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Alright, I appreciate your input. I'll go over to the Guild of Copy-Editors and have someone from there give this article a good copy edit. Once that's done, I'll re-nominated it (might take a few months) and see what happens next. Again, thanks for your time. 23 editor (talk) 01:45, 11 October 2013 (UTC)