Talk:Ayre (landform)

Primary and secondary meaning

If the primary meaning of the word is the body of water, as suggested by the opening of the article, it is unfortunate that the only pic is of the secondary meaning, especially since ayre as in tombolo has lots of pix and is fairly familiar, whereas a good pic of this body of water would be very instructive and interesting. Would the Fleet in Chesil Beach be an example of an Ayre? Since we already have articles on tombolo, spit, bar etc. I suggest that this example focuses on the body of water meaning and we build it with this in mind. IceDragon64 (talk) 22:51, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Is there any evidence to support the assertion that Ayre derives from an Old Norse word for some kind of lake (perhaps even identify that word) or that “beach” is a secondary definition? There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary: 1. Etymology: The Norse linguist and philologist, Jakob Jakobsen gives as its origin the Old Norse “Øyri”, meaning a beach or piece of gravelly ground (Jakob Jakobsen, 1897 – The Dialect and Place Names of Shetland, and An etymological dictionary of the Norn language in Shetland. See also the Wiktionary definition) 2. Meaning in current usage: “a beach” (John J Graham, 1999 - The Shetland Dictionary) 3. Geomorphological definition: “a gravel beach or spit” (W. Mykura, 1976 – British Regional Geology – Orkney and Shetland, Institute of Geological Studies.) 4. Cartographical evidence: Ordnance Survey 1:10,000 scale maps of Shetland show 134 named ayres. All have shingle beaches apart from one with a sandy beach, but only 23 have associated lagoons or lochs. In many cases the name runs along the beach or parallel to it on the seaward side, and all but three are named in black lettering indicating a terrestrial feature. Aquatic features have blue lettering so these names clearly refer to the beach. In the three cases where the name is in blue there is no loch or lagoon and the name is over the sea. Orkney has far fewer Ayre names mapped – only nine on the Mainland and Hoy. This accords entirely with an ayre being a shingle beach since most Orcadian beaches are of sand. Six out of these nine ayres have a lagoon or loch, but lagoons impounded by sand spits are far more common and none of these is associated with an ayre name. Nasty swimmer (talk) 20:32, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Lagoon?

What, if any, is the difference between a lagoon and an ayre? Lagoon is a common word, would it be true to say that that ayre is a scottish/british/celtic/whatever word for a lagoon? If so we should say so, whilst still explaining what it is and giving these examples, along with any subtle difference we can show evidence for.

IceDragon64 (talk) 23:00, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, "ayre" can also mean a tombolo.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:02, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

"Ayre" means a shingle beach of whatever form, so the name can be applied to a tombolo if it is formed of shingle, but there are plenty of ayres on the map which aren't tombolos. The Ayre of Cara isn't a tombolo (you could even argue that it doesn't exist any more) - it was a shingle spit on the north shore of South Ronaldsay that was used as one end of one of the Churchill barriers. Sand accumulating on the barrier has now formed a tombolo of sorts, but the ayre is marked on the 1882 Ordnance Survey maps so long predates this. Nasty swimmer (talk) 20:46, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Meaning of Ayre

Ayre derives from the old Norse "Eyrr" (see Wiktionary)meaning a shingle beach or spit. It occurs in modern Icelandic as "eyri" and Norwegian as "øyr". There are dozens of ayre names on the Ordnance Survey maps of Shetland and rather fewer in Orkney. It also occurs in the Isle of Man, which was once a norse stronghold. All ayre names are associated with a beach, bar or spit, almost always of shingle. Most of them are not associated with a loch or lagoon, but where there is one it usually has its own name. On the 1:10,000 scale maps the name runs along or parallel to the beach or spit. On the smaller scale maps the ayre name is in black, indicating a terrestrial feature. Aquatic features such as lochs and lagoons are named in blue.

Examples (with grid references): Simple shingle beach with no loch or lagoon - Shalder's Ayre (HU390397), Ayre of Atler (HU457611), Little Ayre (HY306919) Cliff foot shingle beaches - Ayre of Deepdale (HU177549), Lang Ayre (HU288854), Ayre of Tonga (HP585145), Hinderayre (HY423195) Shingle spit - Little Ayre (HU437435), Muckle Ayre (HU446445), North and South Ayres of Cunnister (HU523968 and HU526962) Shingle tombolo - The Ayre (HY288892), Gluss Ayre (HU368774) Bar with loch or lagoon - Muckle Ayre (HU365691)(the loch is called the Loch of North Haa), Ayres of Swinister (HU448723)(the lagoon is called The Houb), The Ayre(HY445112)(the loch, originally a lagoon, is calld the Peedie Sea)

It is clear from this that the primary meaning of the word is a shingle beach, whether simple, cliff foot, spit, bar or tombolo. It is sometimes applied (incorrectly I would say) to sand tombolos, but I am not aware of any instances of its being used for a lagoon. Nasty swimmer (talk) 16:30, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Meaning and language of oyce and houbs

Would anyone be willing to confirm and provide a source for the language of origin and possibly meaning of the words 'oyce' or 'houbs' as used in this article?

--Thanks and Cheers! Elfabet (talk) 20:45, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

"Houb" comes from old Norse "Hōp", meaning a bay. "Hōp" occurs in Orkney as "Hope" in the names of bays (e.g. Long Hope, St. Margaret's Hope)and was adopted into Gaelic as "Ob" (e.g. Oban)

For "Oyce" see http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/oyce Northern rocks 08:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nasty swimmer (talk • contribs)

Thanks a ton, Nasty swimmer! Those are both brilliant and helped improve our project. Cheers! Elfabet (talk) 13:13, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Confusion with aird?

I came here from tombolo, because I've long known a tied island on the Scottish coast, including the headland and tombolo together, to be described as an wikt:àird, not an ayre. I can't find any references on the web or the current Ordnance Survey to verify this, but on old local maps there were places marked 'The Aird', referring to the unusual promontory, and it's a local word in the Hebrides and I wonder if someone recording the word just dropped the final 'd' sound. I'm also therefore dubious about the derivation on St Ninian's Isle, which I don't know but doesn't seem to be supported by the references. Just in case someone wants to research this further. --Cedders^tk 21:10, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Cedders Considering there is no tradition of Gaelic in Shetland, I think a Norn/Norse derivation is much more likely. Jakobsen, who is the authority on any etymological matter in Shetland, has the following in his Etymological Dictionary of the Norn Language in Shetland:

[*ør³ [ø̄r], sb., gravel-covered stretch on the shore. Edm. Aer. As a place-name: de Er o Giør (C.).]

And in his Dialect and Place Names of Shetland:

Ayre means beach or a piece of sandy (gravelly) shore, but the older form of the word is Øri (O.N. øyri, Icel. eyri), which occurs in f.i. the place-name Øri" (spelt Urie) in Fetlar, and Ørafirth in Northmavine (there is a big beach at the head of this firth).*

Now personally I think that while ayre is applied correctly in most circumstances as specifically a shingle beach, in the case of the tombolo that joins St Ninian's Isle to Mainland it is applied in the sense of a beach of any kind, rather than that of one made of shingle, or indeed of a tombolo. So in that case it is technically incorrect in my eyes, but seems to be the common name nonetheless. As for àird, while I could understand that word being applied to the isle, I can't see why anyone would apply this to the beach specifically, as is done in this case. Combined with the fact there is no Gaelic heritage in Shetland, this Shetlander finds a Gaelic etymology unlikely.— 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 16:15, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Reference to St Ninian's tombolo as an ayre appears to be a very modern phenomenon based on the misconception that "ayre" means tombolo. Historically it was known as Bigton Sand. Gaelic "airde/aird/ard" means high ground or headland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nasty swimmer (talk • contribs) 08:44, 26 June 2022 (UTC)