Talk:Augmented seventh

References

Why, what, where, and how does this article need additional citations for verification? Hyacinth (talk) 11:21, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Tag removed. Hyacinth (talk) 02:21, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Chromatic half step

The text, "an augmented seventh is an interval produced by widening a major seventh by a chromatic semitone," implies that the source refers to chromatic versus diatonic semitones, which it does not. Hyacinth (talk) 02:25, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

You ignored both my edit summaries:

1. "Half-step (=generic semitone) is not accurate. To augment and diminish you need a chromatic semitone. A diatonic semitone would produce a different interval number."
2. "Half-step is too generic, as it includes both diatonic and chromatic semitones. Please read next paragraph: it explains the difference. See also Half-step"

So, we can't define "augmented" without reference to the concept of chromatic semitone. This is explained everywhere, even in Augmentation (music). If the only place where this is not explained is the reference given in this article, this is not a good reason to accept an inaccurate definition. Moreover, the footnote says, about the reference, that: "...specific example of an A7 not given but general example of major intervals described." So, this is probably not an appropriate reference for this article. We can't write an inaccurate definition, just to make it consistent with a reference which is either incomplete or inappropriate to this article.

Moreover, I have explained in my second edit summary that the next paragraph of the introduction refers to the difference between chromatic and diatonic semitone. This paragraph makes clear that, by adding a semitone (half-step) to a major seventh (M7), you may in some cases (i.e. when the half-step is diatonic) obtain an octave, rather than a seventh (P8, rather than A7)! This is the same thing I tried to explain in my first edit. So, how comes you keep insisting that A7 = M7 + half-step, when I gave you plenty of evidence that this definition is inaccurate? Your behaviour is not constructive. Your edit is not only wrong, but completely out of context.

Paolo.dL (talk) 13:38, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Also, semitone does not imply "diatonic semitone", so specification is not needed in the introduction of an article not about semitones. Hyacinth (talk) 23:16, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

What do you mean exactly? I agree that semitone alone is too generic. When you give a definition you need to be accurate. The definition "A7 = M7 + half-step" is the same as "A7 = interval spanning 12 half-steps" (i.e. 12 semitones). This is inaccurate. Since A7 is not the only kind of interval with 12 semitones, it cannot be "defined" as an interval with 12 semitones. The correct "definition" of A7 is supposed to explain how to tell A7 from any other interval. The definition "A7 = M7 + half-step" is incorrect because it is incomplete: it does not explain how to tell A7 from P8. And again, do not forget that even the definition of Augmentation (music) correctly refers to a chromatic semitone. Paolo.dL (talk) 18:46, 8 April 2011 (UTC)