Talk:Arlene's Grocery

new picture

Hi, I happened to be passing Arlene's and took a picture, not knowing whether there was already one on this article. I notice the one currently there is only 640x480, so what are peoples' thoughts on replacing it? PermanentVacay (talk) 19:57, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

old pic

new pic

Musicians boycott

While this incident is worthy of a mention, I wonder if it merits such extensive play - duelling quotes - as it currently has. It is longer than the actual description of the club itself. Consider that it happened in 1997 a year after opening and the club has continued for a further 15 years without further incident. Wwwhatsup (talk) 17:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Agree.--Epeefleche (talk) 17:04, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I see that today an IP has taken out the whole section. I still think it does bear a mention. There is also an assertion of bad faith which is probably groundless. The IP, on the other hand, has only ever edited this article. Wwwhatsup (talk) 17:07, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Wwwwhats up. I think I should revert the change and put a text like "please discuss on talk page", what do you think about this? Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 06:01, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion -- don't leave comment like that in the article itself. You can leave an edit summary to that effect, however.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:18, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I still say it's overblown. Ribot's statement "This is the central showcase club in New York right now and they're acting like they're marginal." is such pure hyperbole, as to be notable in it's own right however. Wwwhatsup (talk) 16:58, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

How do you want to fix? Suggestions? And you have not responded at Talk:Punkcast yet too. Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 03:16, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

I think that this is worth a mention but I agree that an entire section devoted to this is overblown. MarioNovi insists on this section being prominent on the page, and has also deleted the section that mentions noteworthy artists who have played this venue in the past. It is clear that MarioNovi has some sort of personal problem with this business. Unsigned comment by User:24.191.204.128 July 4 2012.

Artist who play here

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Hello. I am not sure list of artists who played here is very interesting. Those artists played in New York City a lot and must have played at every club, isn't it true? It is trivial to mention it because the club did not help them become successful. Or if it did none of the references say so, yes? Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 03:15, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

That these notable acts might have played elsewhere is not truly relevant. In the context of this club their appearance is not trivial, and goes some way to establishing notability of the venue itself. These are reliably sourced. If the Musicians Boycott is worth putting in, given that Arlene's wasn't the only venue they took action on, then so is this. Wwwhatsup (talk) 00:42, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I do not understand why a band playing in a club before the band was notable makes the club notable. If they play there after they are notable then it is different, yes? Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 07:02, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Do we include bands who became notable in the future but were not notable when they played here? These bands probably played in every club in New York City that is how they became famous so it does not make the club notable that someone not notable yet played there, yes? Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 04:12, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

• The article itself seems to indicate that the club was helpful in establishing notability for rising bands. If this is the case, then it should be possible to establish, using reliable sources, that the club helped establish these particular bands. If it didn't, then they shouldn't be listed. Just source a line saying that many famous bands played there before they became famous. We don't need this to turn into List of Bands That Played at My Favorite Club. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 14:43, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
  • One couldn't make that assertion without sourcing it. If one sources it to the current refs then one might as well mention the names, eh? Right now it's only a handful. What is possible is that the names that are really notable are Lady Gaga and Lana Del Rey, as they are acts that would likely not have gotten a look in at other contemporary seminal venues such as Sin-é (Jeff Buckley,Ben Folds), SideWalk Cafe (Regina Spektor, Moldy Peaches), or Mercury Lounge (The Strokes). Luna Lounge (The National, 'stellastarr) might have taken them.. But if you are going to apply the no names rule to AG on principle, you should do it to all of these articles, and every other venue going. Wwwhatsup (talk) 06:54, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

It's not bad now, but people have a tendency to compulsively add names to any list they see. CBGB does list some prominent bands that played there, but it also puts it into context. In the case of CBGB, the bands mentioned serve to 1) illustrate what is meant by punk and new wave; 2) establish notoriety for the club, as it was the debut or major showcase of those artists; and 3) discuss the importance of CBGB to these bands. As it stands, I think there's too much discussion of bands and listing of bands at CBGB, but there's at least some degree of context. In this article, there's no context at all. What I'm proposing is that some sort of context be established. Why list those bands here? Like User:MarioNovi says, those bands probably played at every NYC venue. If this venue, in particular, was important to their success, then it makes a lot of sense to add a note here. If not, then it just seems like pointless trivia to me, like those "George Washington slept here" signs all over New England. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 15:14, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes Ninja that is what I believe too that the bands played everyplace so nothing notable here. I agree with Wwwwhatsup that we should remove similar lists from the other articles if we find agreement about it here. Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 07:45, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

NinjaRobotPirate do you think we should remove that section, I can't find sources to explain how this place helped them achieve success. We can do it on other articles too. Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 06:27, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I checked, and there doesn't seem to be any guidelines on this. I did find one old conversation, though. It looks like this has been a problem in the past, and people have tried to find consensus, but nothing really happened. We haven't gotten much in the way of opinions here, either. We should probably let this go for a while longer (30 days is standard), to see if anyone else responds, before we remove material with a valid citation. It's only been 17 days since the rfc was opened, so we still have lots of time to get more input. Once this rfc ends, we can always try to get consensus in WP:WikiProject Music or something. It would be a pain to do an rfc in every article. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

I see thank you. No rush, MarioNovi (talk) 06:03, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

• Comment from uninvolved user visiting from WP:AN/RFC: was this a formal RfC? If not, it might be a good idea to start one to attract more attention. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 12:21, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
  • It was a formal RFC, you can see from history. Thank you, MarioNovi (talk) 21:40, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Okay. Closed. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 13:30, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.