Talk:Alexander Lindsay (East India Company officer)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) 12:58, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I'll take this one.

Prelim

• There are no images to check. Perhaps a general image of one his units or an action he participated in could be found?

Gah, historic images on Commons are a minefiled in incorrect and incomplete copyright tags. There was a good one for the Nepalese war and one of artillerymen during the Burmese war but I wasn't satisfied either was actually PD. I've added one of the RMA building in use at the time and a generic one of the Burmese war - Dumelow (talk) 17:01, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

• Dup links: East India Company in lede, Brevet rank in East India Company career and General

Removed - Dumelow (talk) 17:01, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

• No copyvio found

Lede

• Link general, Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath (post nom), major general, lieutenant general

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:06, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• Clarify that of his commissions, "one as a lieutenant and one as a general", the lieutenancy was a leftover from his original service in the British army

Had a go - Dumelow (talk) 08:06, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Early life

• Does Dowhill need linking? Can't see anything that would ever turn that link blue...

Think it's Dowhill Castle in Kinross. The 20th-century army officer and explorer Sir Martin Lindsay, 1st Baronet may be some sort of relation. Canmore note "Dowhill was a barony belonging to a Lindsay family". I've changed the link to the castle and will see about creating an article for it - Dumelow (talk) 17:12, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Being not really related to the GAN I feel safe in saying that I'd be happy to help with such an enterprise; looks like there are sources available for it aplenty. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 18:19, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, amazing that someone hasn't written an article for it yet! I've started at User:Dumelow/Dowhill Castle but not got further than finding an image yet - Dumelow (talk) 08:09, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• Link lieutenant to Lieutenant (British Army and Royal Marines)

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:09, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• "Lindsay went onto half-pay, being formally transferred into the previous 104th Regiment that had been disbanded in 1783." I've read this sentence at least a dozen times and it still doesn't sit right with me. Are you saying that he was placed on the roll of a different 104th Foot for administrative purposes? Noting that the regiment had already been disbanded before Lindsay was "formally transferred" to it confuses the issue further; really need clarifying. I also don't see how the source cited provides the information you link it to.

It comes from footnote 8 of Baldry & White (1922): "The very remarkable case is recorded of an officer of this regiment holding a half-pay Lieutenancy and a full General's commission in the British Army at the same time. Lieut. Alexander Lindsay, of the 104th Regt, of 1794-5, exchanged, in 1795, into the half-pay of the disbanded 104th Regt, of 1782-3. In 1804 he joined the Bengal Artillery and subsequently became Gen. Sir Alexander Lindsay, K.C.B., of the Royal (late Bengal) Artillery, and died on 20th Jan., 1872, at which time he still held his commission in the half-pay of the 104th Foot". So he served as a lieutenant of the 104th (est. 1794) but was transferred in 1795 in the same rank (but on half-pay, ie. retired), to the 104th (est. 1782) which had been disbanded in 1783. Presumably some sort of administrative tidying up. I've tried to clarify this in the article but I don't know if I've succeeded - Dumelow (talk) 08:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Ah, think I found the error here. I had mixed up the citations to Lindsay and Baldry & White, now fixed (hopefully!) - Dumelow (talk) 16:02, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• "throughout the rest of his life" > "for the rest of his life"

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• "The regiment disbanded later that year. Lindsay went onto half-pay" - can you date these events?

Baldry & White (1922) say the regiment disbanded "towards the end of 1795", I've added this - Dumelow (talk) 08:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• His ODNB article gives his DOB as 14 January 1785

Oh, don't know how I missed that! Added - Dumelow (talk) 08:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• ODNB says his ensigncy was in the 104th and not the independent company

I believe the London Gazette, the formal record of British Army appointments, over the ODNB here. I suspect they have confused his appointment as ensign with his later service in the 104th. The Gazette of 28 February 1795 is clear he transferred to the 104th direct from the independent company - Dumelow (talk) 08:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

East India Company career

• "the sieges of Komanur and Gunnowrie" - these need links to the events if they exist and the locations if not

Expanded from new source. I couldn't find their specific location but named the district - Dumelow (talk) 11:30, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• Link captain to Captain (British Army and Royal Marines)

Done - Dumelow (talk) 14:15, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• Link major to Major (United Kingdom)

Done - Dumelow (talk) 14:15, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• "the company's agent" - capitalise Company?

Done - Dumelow (talk) 08:37, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

• Link lieutenant colonel to Lieutenant colonel (United Kingdom), ibid colonel...

Done - Dumelow (talk) 14:15, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• "Lindsay was promoted to colonel and colonel-commandant on 2 July 1835" - I realise being an artillery officer means that Lindsay won't have been attached to the same unit for his entire career as an infantry officer might, but was he ever a part of or in command of a particular artillery unit as he moved around being attached to different armies? As of now the article reads more like he was a bit of a nomad officer

I've not been able to find anything further on his later career, but his earlier career is now given in more detail - Dumelow (talk) 05:29, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

• I realise it's unlikely that any detailed accounts of what the artillery were doing at the actions Lindsay participated in exist, but are you able to expand on what his role would have been, especially for example when he was hit by a musket ball (which suggests he was closer to the action than an artillery officer might expect!)?

I've found an 1825 biography which has allowed me to expand a good deal on his early career. The date obviously isn't great but its an EIC publication so probably reliable enough for statements of fact such as details of his appointments. Still a work in progress and needs a tidy but I am on it - Dumelow (talk) 11:30, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

General

• Should this section be separate to East India Company career? It's not like becoming a general removed him from the EIC; it should probably be a subsection of the aforementioned
• Link major general

Done - Dumelow (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• Link lieutenant general

Done - Dumelow (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• "on 21 November 1851 he was appointed to the brevet rank of lieutenant-general in the British Army" - this jumps out at me as needing more explaining; the EIC armies were yet to merge with the British army and so why was it deemed necessary to give him local brevet rank?

I presume it was to give him authority over some British Army units in the theatre. I'll see if I can find out if there was a specific campaign he took part in - Dumelow (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Apparently not (Burma was his last campaign). Perhaps just to give him authority over garrison troops then - Dumelow (talk) 16:50, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• Link general

Done - Dumelow (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• "in the East India Company's Army" - should army be capitalised here, and should it actually be armies?

Changed to "Bengal Army", as they were still separate - Dumelow (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• "When the presidency armies" - you haven't described the EIC armies as such before this point, a casual reader most likely won't have a clue what they are!

Good point, now mentioned and linked at the start of his career with them - Dumelow (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• You briefly mention the Indian Mutiny and I can't help but wonder if, as a senior officer, Lindsay played some part in it?

I found a listing of his war service in Hart's Army List for 1863 (which is the last one his service appears in as Hart afterwards omitted the war records of generals appointed colonel-commandant: as an honorary appointment I guess this marks a period of informal retirement). It notes that the Burmese war was his last, I've added this - Dumelow (talk) 16:49, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• "Lindsay became colonel-commandant of the Bengal Artillery" - is this an honorary position? Best to explain what exactly his role was here

Yes, this appointment (unlike the earlier one to the brigadier-equivalent rank) was purely honorary, I've added a note - Dumelow (talk) 16:49, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• "Lindsay was in the unusual position of holding both a general's and lieutenant's commission in the British Army at the same time" - an amazing titbit, must have given some clerks headaches!

I love that he carried on collecting his lieutenant's half-pay even whilst a general - Dumelow (talk) 16:49, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• Can you say when Lindsay stopped actively serving in the army?

Per above - Dumelow (talk) 16:49, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Personal life

• Every paragraph starts with either "Alexander Lindsay" or "Lindsay", perhaps mix this up with a few more "he"s or something similar

Switched it around a bit

• "He was appointed a Companion of the Order of the Bath on 26 September 1831 and a Knight Commander of that order on 9 November 1862." - these aren't "personal life" events, these are (I assume) rewards for his military service and thus should go in those sections

Agreed. Removing that didn't leave much in "Personal life" so I've distributed the content into the main biography sections in a chronological fashion - Dumelow (talk) 05:29, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

• Link bronchitis

Done - Dumelow (talk) 07:44, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

• Link Perth, Scotland

Done - Dumelow (talk) 07:44, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

• Did the couple have any children?

No, added - Dumelow (talk) 07:44, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

References

• All sources are good
• Reference 11 seems incomplete for a journal (and which article is it?)

Laziness on my part, using the Google Books preview rather than tracking down the article itself. Now done and properly formatted - Dumelow (talk) 17:06, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Other sources

• The article provides good coverage of Lindsay's life but is rather reliant on the ODNB entry (which I know is somewhat necessary) - I'd suggest adding in a couple of other sources to demonstrate wider coverage where possible, e.g.:

• This [1] outlines his family

Added a little more info on his brother and nephew - Dumelow (talk) 16:10, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• This [2] discusses his strange double army commission

Added a little more on his appearing twice in the Army List - Dumelow (talk) 16:10, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

• This [3] mentions his marriage in a history of his wife's family

Unfortunately my Wikipedia Library account doesn't extend to this article - Dumelow (talk) 15:49, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

That's all I have for now. Feel free to ping me with any questions or when you've gone through all my comments. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 12:58, 15 August 2021 (UTC) Thanks for another thorough and constructive review Pickersgill-Cunliffe, I'll work through your comments in the next day or so - Dumelow (talk) 17:01, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi Pickersgill-Cunliffe, I've made comments above and finished my edits to the article. Would be great if you coudl take another look. Many thanks - Dumelow (talk) 05:29, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

@Dumelow: Your edits look good to me. I've made a few minor edits relating to wording and duplicated links which I hope you won't have an issue with. Apart from that there are a few minor points remaining:

• You provide the ranks for most of the officers Lindsay served with/under but not for all. For the sake of consistency the likes of David Ochterlony and Joseph Wanton Morrison should also be given their ranks.

Sure thing, added these two (couldn't see any others) - Dumelow (talk) 08:42, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

• While I appreciate you've gone to some effort to identify where possible what the modern names of a number of Indian locations are, some of the unlinked ones are still problematic. For example, you describe "some minor forts in Candoulee", which being unlinked doesn't tell the average reader where this was. Indeed, when googling "Candoulee" the first result is this article!

Struggled for a while but thanks to this source detailing the campaign and stopping points on the route I've managed to identify the remaining modern-day settlements - Dumelow (talk) 18:23, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

• The new images look good.
• I realise you've likely gone off how the author's name was printed in the source, but having "Hart, H. G." and "Hart, Henry George" in the same reference list is a tad confusing when they were the same person!

Must have added them at different times and not clocked the lack of consistency. Fixed - Dumelow (talk) 08:44, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Ping me again when you've had chance to look at those points. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:37, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

@Dumelow: Not trying to pressure you, but do you have an ETA on when you'll be able to get back to this? Hardly anything left to my eye. Thanks, Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 22:19, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

So sorry Pickersgill-Cunliffe, this had slipped my mind before going on holiday. I'm back early next week and will look to close the remaining actions out then if that's OK? - Dumelow (talk) 03:34, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

No problem at all! Enjoy the rest of your holiday and really I'm sorry to have disturbed you! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 10:33, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi Pickersgill-Cunliffe, no problem and thankyou for your patience. I'm back now and think I've addressed the remaining comments. All the best - Dumelow (talk) 08:45, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Great work. Happy to pass this as satisfying the GA criteria. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 12:01, 31 August 2021 (UTC)