Talk:Al-Manshiyya, Tulkarm

Palestine Mid‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

Yet another Manshiyya identification problem edit

Latest comment: 2 years ago9 comments3 people in discussion

To editor Huldra: To editor Onceinawhile: To editor Arminden: The coordinates and grid position given in the article do not agree. Namely, we have:

A: |32|26|57|N|34|59|57|E| which corresponds to 150/206
B: 144/200 which corresponds to |32|23|40|N|34|56|5|E|

They are about 8km apart. Looking at maps, position A has "Kh. el Manshiya", not shown as a village. Position B has another "Kh. el Manshiya", this time shown as a village. The context, especially Khalidi and the proximity of Givat Haim, indicates that B is what this article is about. I'll fix the coordinates.

I'm not really confident that we have all our Manshiyyas sorted out. Do we need a mini-workshop on that? Zero^talk 12:20, 25 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

I have been trying to find out what the word means. In PEF I can only see an etymology for Iraq al-Manshiyya (Palmer, 1881, p. 365) which calls it the cliff of the place of growth (where Iraq = cliff / escarpment / cave). It would make sense for Manshiyya to be 'place of growth', as I don't believe any of our Al-Manshiyyas have much history prior to the 19th century. I would like to confirm this.

On another topic, I am not sure if Manshiya (Jaffa) is really the commonname here.

Onceinawhile (talk) 14:42, 25 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Incidentally, Once, this means the map sequence is wrong. I'll send you the right one when I remember how to do it. Zero^talk 12:24, 25 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

To editor Onceinawhile: Did you get my mail of a few days ago? Zero^talk 03:39, 30 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Zero0000: sorry no I didn't and I haven't been able to access my email for the last few days. Will be able to access it in a couple of days' time, so will try to remember. Onceinawhile (talk) 04:06, 30 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The discussion re. the meaning of Manshiya and how best to spell it is stretched over 3 discussion pages:

Talk:Al-Manshiyya, Tiberias#This article is wrong A to Z; consider deletion
this one
Talk:Manshiya, Jaffa

This doesn't help with reaching a concerted decision. Either we move it all to one place, or at least we should interlink & be aware of the other 2 pages. Arminden (talk) 20:31, 26 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

It isn't our task to decide what the meaning is. As for spellings, we should follow the sources and make a reasonable choice when the sources differ. Zero^talk 11:56, 27 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

I don't know what you mean by "task". The etymology of place-names is a common feature in articles concerned with geographical places, as it should be. The SWP dealt with it, other encyclopedias do - what's your point? Also, every time you have a clear meaning, this reflects on the history and self-identification of the place and its inhabitants. So quite important! The spelling - we agree. It doesn't need to be uniform, names are names and we follow the sources. However, a place like Manshiya, Jaffa, is likely to be mentioned hundred of times in English-language sources, while a hamlet like Manshiy(y)a, Tiberias, only gets half a dozen mentions, maybe each of them different, so what do you go by? Somebody decided to go with double-y with all but the Jaffa toponym, and I don't really know why, what this -iyy centipede is supposed to bring. Arminden (talk) 17:31, 27 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

I wasn't clear. If we have a good source for what "manshiya" means, we can use it. However, once we start digging into Arabic roots and drawing our own conclusions, we are into OR territory and we can't use it. Zero^talk 00:42, 28 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Add topic