Talk:Adonis/Archive 1

Archive 1

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The Semitic 'origin' is problematic as Tammuz is the Semitic God. Adonis is cleary not a direct borrowing of Tammuz but an entirely different deity in his own right. Adonis is also a Greek word and name.

Reference should be made to antecedents rather than origins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.25.109.197 (talk) 11:46, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Comments

Baldr - changed it to Balder, because when I clicked that link I was redirected to Balder, and besides, that was his name.

I think the opening section isn't very clear and poorly written as well. --Awenty 00:10, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Who raises the glove: Adonis is also the better-known name of Ali Ahmad Sa'id in Al Qassabin- the well-known Syrian-Lebanese poet, literary critic, translator, and editor, a highly influential figure in Arabic poetry and literature today.

(See for example: http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/adonis.htm or http://lexicorient.com/e.o/adonis.htm)

I guess there should at least be a disamibguation msg and a stub, till someone writes his page.

YN. 88.154.146.247 21:40, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

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Would be interesting to find a reference here to the "Adonis complex".

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New text: (Some mythologists believe he was later exported to Germania, and his counterpart in Germanic mythology is Baldr.) " A reference to a mythologist who thought so would be interesting. Not all annually-reborn consorts of the Goddess are Adonis. Maybe the comparison could be restated as less than a one-to-one equivalence. --Wetman 00:55, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

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This text was briefly suppressed: As "Lord" or baal, Adonis was the youthful consort of the ageless Goddess, who might take various identities according to which aspect of annual renewal is being emphasized. Youthful contrasted with ageless is an important aspect of the pairing. The local name of the Goddess varies: this too is essential. --Wetman 06:15, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Suppressed again. Any editor who announces (publicly exposing himself in an edit summary for all the world, no less! snicker) that "Tammuz was "ba'al", not Adonis" is talking through his hat. ...Again. I shall return later and tune up to concert pitch once more... Too silly. --Wetman 04:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I guess the edit summary wasn't very clear (though I would have preferred you weren't such a dick about it); my point in removing the sentence was that "Adonis", as a Greek god, would probably not have been called by the Semitic name of "Ba'al". As the article says,

there is no trace of a Semitic cult directly connected with Adonis, and no trace in Semitic languages of any specific mythemes connected with his Greek myth...

Combined with the bit about "the ageless Goddess" taking on various identities, the whole sentance sounds to me too much like Robert Graves-style speculation about the Mother Goddess. If you want make it clearer, please do.--Cuchullain 10:01, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Is there a reason that the "Ancient Mideastern Deities" box isn't on this page? Adonis is listed in the box and it links here, so shouldn't it be up here? MrCheshire 05:17, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

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Can someone edit the page to reference Shelley's elegy "Adonais?"

...perhaps without using "reference" as a verb. Shelley picked a spelling halfway between Adonai and Adonis. Is Adonais relevant here, as Adonis and Adonai are certainly relevant at Adonais? In other words, does Adonais';' help explain Adonis? the converse is certainly true. --Wetman 06:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

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In the "myth" section, I seriously question the validity of the assertion that Adonis was ever the lover of Apollo - the only like they have is to a baby name site which doesn't seem very valid. Does anyone have a more reliable source for this claim?

"Syria" and "Lebanon" in Antiquity

Are we developing a patriotism-trumps-history issue in this article? --Wetman 06:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Puer Aeternus

Robert A. Segal, Professor in Theories of Religion at the University of Lancaster gives us an alternative Jungian interpretation of the Adonis myth. Rather than viewing Adonis as a vegetation deity he is seen as an archetypal puer, an eternal male child who cannot participate as an adult member of the community. See Adonis interpreted by R. Segal (User:Amargolin)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Your article would make a more encyclopedic example if it were edited, as an example of Jung's archetype, into the Jungian Puer Aeternus article. --Wetman 04:18, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

"Of semitic origin"

This assertion, made in the article lead, is completely without citation therein, and seems to fall back on similarly uncited assertions made in the first paragraph of the following section, "Origin of the cult". While it is natural for speculation to run rampant on the basis of the similarity of the name "Adonis" and the title "Adon[i/ai]", it is truly shameful that this apparent similarity between two completely unrelated languages (Greek=IE, Hebrew=AA) to be passed off as a foregone conclusion, i.e., "Adonis" is the Greek realization of the Hebrew "Adonai". I am certain volumes must have been written about the apparent etymological similarities between the two, so it seems me intellectually insulting that not only is not a single respectable source brought to bear on the subject, but that not a single source at all is brought forth to support this oft-speculated-upon, but also oft-reputed apparent false friend similarity. Tomer^talk 12:01, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree. The semitic origin hypothesis must be either properly referenced and documented, or it will be removed. As far as I know, it has no scientific basis.Amadeus webern (talk) 23:59, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

The article states repeatedly that it is known for certain and is thus speculation.

But the fact is Ancient Greece was influence by Semitic ideas probably thought trade with the Phonecians, and place names in ancient Phoenicia/modern Lebanon are part of the myth

In fact the entire Greek Alphabet is well known to have derived form the Phoenician alphabet, which was related to Hebrew.

i agree with Tomer and Amadeus webern. it's mostly been addressed by 2016, although there were still/other uncited (or barely cited) assertions in the article. i don't know what to make of the last comment. i assume those 3 sentences were 1 comment, made by one person (who meant to write "...and is thus not speculation", and who wasn't trying to imply that the Phoenician alphabet came from Hebrew). but i can't be sure. and anyway, as a completely anonymous comment, it shouldn't carry any weight. (doesn't with me.)Colbey84 (talk) 17:10, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Translation

what was Adonis' name in Roman mythology? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.178.228.214 (talk) 03:18, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Adonis. (Ovid, Metamorphoses X 532) Michael! (talk) 20:18, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Bewitched

Don't you think we should mention the epicode of Bewitched in whice the statue is made to come to life? I sure do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.37.38.33 (talk) 22:27, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

How about the fact that Charlie Sheen has Adonis DNA? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.55.121.8 (talk) 13:27, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Removed the see also part that says, quote

• Charlie Sheen, descendant of Adonis. Shares DNA.

Wouldn't be surprised if Charlie himself put that there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.125.176.126 (talk) 19:31, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

God ?

Being the son of two mortals, why is he labelled as a god ? Castor and Pollux are not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patatosaure (talk • contribs) 17:36, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Adonis was a god in the Levant, although not in Greece. (Castor and Pollux (or their equivalents) were sometimes also worshiped as gods.) Michael! (talk) 20:25, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

First paragraph needs a rewrite.

I don't even know what the second sentence is trying to say, or I would rewrite it myself. "The dying of Adonis was fully developed in the circle of young girls around the poet Sappho from the island of Lesbos, about 600 BC, as revealed in a fragment of Sappho's surviving poetry." - TheDaveRoss (talk) 18:46, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

agreed. someone made a minor change to it, which merely clarified it enough so that others could understand what was being asserted. but those edits didn't address the larger issue of a relatively minor belief/theory being presented as the consensus. i rewrote the intro to address that—by requesting citations and/or better citations, and re-wording some of it so that the theories presented are presented as theories held by one or 2 people. (honestly, without more sources, it seems to be only Origen and Attalah.) unfortunately, this means i also need to edit 3 of the other sections, too.Colbey84 (talk) 15:09, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Adonis/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs citations and sources. Captain panda In vino veritas 20:46, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 20:46, 17 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 06:44, 29 April 2016 (UTC)