Talk:Acts of Peter and the Twelve/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Jenhawk777 (talk · contribs) 15:49, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

---

Hello TriplePowered, I am Jenhawk777. I was asked to review this article by Mike Christie, so I am going to begin. Looking forward to working with you. Jenhawk777 (talk) 15:49, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

Prose

1. Okay, I've done my first read through, and I am uncomfortable with the lead. It is a common problem when writing of something commonly known in a field of study that is not commonly known outside that field. There are technical terms that the average sophomore - for whom we write - will not understand. I see that tractate is explained but Codex, and the Nag Hammadi are not, and neither are explained later in the body either. So I would like to see that added to make it more accessible to that broad audience. Jenhawk777 (talk) 16:13, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

   Ok, the generic 'codex' has been replaced with more context-friendly 'sheepskin-bound papyrus codex' and the meaning of 'Nag Hammadi library' is more explicitly stated in the opening. TriplePowered (talk) 21:07, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

   Thanx for getting back to me so quickly. Imo, adding sheepskin doesn't clarify anything. However, now that you've changed it, it looks like there is no good way to include explanations that don't make it worse rather than better. You have all jargon-terms linked, the explanations are available, so shorten those two sentences, and that will be good enough.

   How about this: "It is the first [tractate] in [Codex] VI of the [Nag Hammadi] texts, taking up pages 1–12 of the codex's 78 pages."

   Sorry to be fussy about that, but stats indicate most people never read beyond the lead, so it needs to be clear.

   Moving on down through the rest of the article.

   Remove the link to lodging. I'm guessing someone else came along and did that for you. Overuse of links that add nothing substantive, but are a distraction, is an ongoing problem on WP. If someone doesn't know what 'lodging' is, I'm guessing they won't be reading this article. There are a few other similar unnecessary links through the remaining paragraphs as well. Use your best judgement and remove them.

   Do that and I can pass this first requirement with a yes, it is well written. Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:11, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

   I have edited. TriplePowered (talk) 05:22, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

   Thank you. I will be going through the citations now. That always takes a little longer than just checking prose and punctuation. Everything looks good so far. Jenhawk777 (talk) 15:12, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

   b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a. (reference section):

   b. (citations to reliable sources):

Sources

1. Just for future reference, unless something is controversial, which imo this article is not, each sentence only needs one citation. You are absolutely right about checking more than one source for verification, but every source you look at can't be cited. These sources all look reliable, so any of them will do.

   12 is good; however 13 seems misplaced as the source says only "first half of the fourth century" on that page. Could those refs be reversed? It looks like 2 has that earlier date. (I like the description in this one - focus on commission and fairy tale with symbols, and Molinari calling it an allegory. Perhaps consider adding some of it? Your decision, it won't impact this process. It could easily fit in the lead and just broadens it a bit.) 7 also has the earlier date.

   I cannot access 20. Could you get it for me? I really like that you included the word for word in the citation. I am amazed it didn't come up as a copyright violation - quotes always seem to for me! Since you used the one translation throughout - which is perfectly fine - I am just wondering if there might be any significant differences in any other translations. Do you happen to know?

   4 is good

   Made it through to 71 and have to quit for today. Almost done! But it's my birthday today and I keep getting interrupted!! As far as I am concerned this is great, and will be finished tomorrow. Good work! Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:41, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

   I don't see an issue with ref 13. On p. 414 Schenke says, "There is also scarcely any serviceable indication in the text for answering the question of the date of composition, i.e. how long before the first half of the 4th century, the terminus post quem non, the ActPt was composed. We are practically entirely reduced to estimates. Thus scholars speak in quite general terms of the 2nd and/or 3rd century."

   You can use the search feature on archive.org to access the limited pages, like so: [1]https://i.ibb.co/r37nN7H/archive.png. Essentially the same translation is also at [2]http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/actp.html. There are a few other English translations, but the only one I can find for free is in Molinari's dissertation, which is almost identical to Parrott/Wilson, with a few suggested rewordings mixed in.

   I'm glad that citing the quotes passed, because I think that summaries are especially vulnerable to editors' inserting misinterpretations, personal views, or minor errors, whereas citing the exact quotes makes it easy to see whether each sentence of the summary accurately represents what the original author wrote.

   Thanks for spending your birthday reviewing Acts of Peter and the Twelve. TriplePowered (talk) 20:33, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

   I see the problem with 13 - all I get is p.415 not 414, but I accept your statement about it as accurate. This is the first article I've done where I checked every reference - I found it all so interesting I couldn't help myself! (Don't give me more credit than I deserve. I didn't spend much of my birthday here on WP. Which is why you've had to wait till Monday for your results. So I will say thank you for your patience.)

   I too am glad the quotes passed - I love to use quotes for exactly the reasons you say - and I get dunned for it all the time, so I glad to have another "quoter" on board. :-)

   This is a brilliant little article, perfect for WP, and I am passing it for GA. Congratulations! Jenhawk777 (talk) 16:03, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

   Thank you, great work reviewing. TriplePowered (talk) 19:49, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

   It's still a nominee... TriplePowered (talk) 00:04, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

   c. (OR):

   d. (copyvio and plagiarism):

2. It is broad in its coverage.

   a. (major aspects):

   b. (focused):

3. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

4. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

5. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

   b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):

6. Overall:

   Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)