Talk:Political controversies in the Eurovision Song Contest
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Plan to add more controversies edit
It's nice to know I'm not the only one who geeks out on this subject a bit. It's a nice page, but I think I have some more controversies to add. I'll try to add them one at a time as I'm able. TheYarnBender (talk) 01:59, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Requested move 13 May 2024 edit
 | It has been proposed in this section that Political controversies in the Eurovision Song Contest be renamed and moved to Controversies of the Eurovision Song Contest. A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. |
Political controversies in the Eurovision Song Contest → Controversies in the Eurovision Song Contest – See discussion at Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2024#Move_"political_controversies"_to_just_"controversies" — IмSтevan talk 11:40, 13 May 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 01:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. I do not believe there is a need to change the focus of this article at present. Presently the main idea for this article has been to highlight longer-term political disputes that have had an impact on the Eurovision Song Contest over multiple years. For any non-political controversies that have occurred in the past these generally have only been presented once in a very specific context, and these are much better covered either in the individual year articles and/or in the country articles for incidents where specific countries or delegations have been involved, where the situation in which the controversy erupted can be conveyed in better context. I don't believe that an article covering every known controversy that has ever occurred in the Eurovision Song Contest is either necessary or helpful for the reader and could lead in the long run to scope creep and notability violations. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 08:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support move What does scope creep have to do with this move? That essay is about WikiProjects, also notability violations would just be removed, only including notable controversies, "every known controversy" wouldn't be included. Sebbog13 (talk) 15:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- easily things which do not belong and article gets wider and wider and less focused and more and more unwieldy. It is just not a thing which is needed on Wikipedia. Ok so it starts with this year and what is considered big, then it expands to smaller things, and smaller things and smaller things, and before you know it the running order is considered controversial as no one in second place performing has won. it is the slippery slope to avoid at all costs. PicturePerfect666 (talk) 17:34, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support move What does scope creep have to do with this move? That essay is about WikiProjects, also notability violations would just be removed, only including notable controversies, "every known controversy" wouldn't be included. Sebbog13 (talk) 15:55, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose- ‘controversies’ pages are a magnet for the inclusion of crap, agenda pushing, POV pushing, excessive detail, cruft, minutiae, and general unnavigable news reporting. The reason this page exists is because Eurovision is apolitical. That elevates that when politics enters it is relevant. General controversies pages become a violation of anti soapbox rules and violate what Wikipedia is not, in short order. Plus they become a battleground when things are added or removed because of strong opinions.
- PicturePerfect666 (talk) 14:34, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
- "Eurovision is apolitical" is a POV — IмSтevan talk 16:26, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- No it is written in to the rules of Eurovoision. So no that is not POV.
- Quoting directly from the rules of Eurovision:
NON-POLITICAL EVENT
- The ESC is a non-political event. All Participating Broadcasters, including the Host Broadcaster, shall be responsible to ensure that all necessary measures are undertaken within in their respective Delegations and teams to safeguard the interests and the integrity of the ESC and to make sure that the ESC shall in no case be politicized and/or instrumentalized and/or otherwise brought into disrepute in any way.
- Rules of Eurovision source
- Please make sure you understand the rules and can back up what you are claiming before you make such statements of sneer. PicturePerfect666 (talk) 17:36, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- The fact that this article is called Political controversies in the Eurovision Song Contest and there are many reliable sources within it is evidence that you are indeed wrong and Eurovision is actually very political. UaMaol (talk) 02:33, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- That is a nice POV you have there. It is though sadly incorrect. PicturePerfect666 (talk) 03:29, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- The fact that this article is called Political controversies in the Eurovision Song Contest and there are many reliable sources within it is evidence that you are indeed wrong and Eurovision is actually very political. UaMaol (talk) 02:33, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- "Eurovision is apolitical" is a POV — IмSтevan talk 16:26, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support - would need to be HEAVILY expanded to make this not unreasonable request worthwhile. Would need to include allegations present on all ESC by year articles, basically. Spa-Franks (talk) 20:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support move and expansion An article covering wider controversies, preferably with a set definition and correct policing of content would be beneficial. There is a lot of quality content that would be right at home in such an article, especially from other articles. Eurovision has long been controversial and political, even if half of Wiki users claim it is apolitical. The very odd recent banning of the flag of Palestine (despite it being a former associate member of the EBU), of non-binary flags (despite other pride flags being encouraged) and of the Council of Europe/EU flag (despite membership of the Council of Europe being among the criteria for inclusion), are perfect examples of this. UaMaol (talk) 02:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
- Closure request filed - In the interest of full transparency a closure request has now been filed.