Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball/Archive 8

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Guidance on Significant Coverage for Notable College Basketball Players

Hi all,

I have been trying to dig in to understand college basketball notability, using Christian Koloko of the Arizona Wildcats. He seems to be referenced in a range of credible news sources over a prolonged period of time (i.e. his college career thus far) [1] [2] [3], but at the same time, a lot of this seems like a lot of players would get this as part of standard, regional college basketball coverage. Would he fit notability criteria based on this cursory overview? I'm also looking at this in the context of the other players on the roster that do have articles, in which case they generally either played in international youth leagues or were notable in their high school careers by playing at the highest level (i.e. Jordan Brown played in the McDonald's All-American Game in high school. Christian Koloko did not have this depth of coverage. I would appreciate being pointed to the appropriate references or getting guidance from you all.

Thanks in advance, Upjav (talk) 03:36, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Upjav: College players can qualify by meeting WP:NCOLLATH, which he doesn't. Therefore, he would need to meet WP:GNG. Note that it says: Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability. Therefore, the two Tucson.com source you cited only counts as one source.—Bagumba (talk) 10:08, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Bagumba: Thank you for your help here. I don't usually deal with sports articles but was curious here. Not sure how I missed WP:NCOLLATH among the sports notability guidelines. In terms of the sources, there were other sources out there but I pulled up multiple, dropped in three, and totally missed the source website... I guess 3 sources of that caliber would be sufficient (i.e. Sports Illustrated, news from a relatively large metro (Tucson)? Upjav (talk) 03:01, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Upjav: Three sources would be more compelling, but GNG doesn't have a hard count either. What I would expect to see is enough material to write a decent bio of a few paragraphs that isn't full of WP:NOTDIARY trivia or game-by-game stat lines. —Bagumba (talk) 06:25, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Bagumba: Thank you, Bagumba. That should be a good starting place for me to see whether this person would meet notability guidelines. Have a great day! Upjav (talk) 14:34, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

"Players coached" sections for coach articles

Is there a consensus for the inclusion of "professional players coached" sections (ex: Josh Pastner#Professional_players_coached. If not a consensus should probably be established. I'd personally be against including them. Best, GPL93 (talk) 17:35, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree seems like WP:Trivia, or at worst WP:PROMO to me.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 22:34, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

I say get rid of them, it’s trivial. Rikster2 (talk) 22:38, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Help for 2021 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament: qualifying teams

I would love to get some help in listing the 37 at large bids and other lists for this page ASAP. –Piranha249 (Discuss with me) 15:31, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm looking for those who know the last appearances and number of appearances for the teams that received an at-large bid this year. Everything else seems complete so far. –Piranha249 (Discuss with me) 15:53, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

@Piranha249: Did you try NCAA Tournament Matchup Finder? Hoof Hearted (talk) 20:39, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Hoof Hearted, I looked into, but I don't think it was effective. Besides, it looked like someone went and added all those values into the table. –Piranha249 (Discuss with me) 17:10, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Since 2019, all four NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans consensus selectors have named a third team. Why isn't there a consensus All-American third team?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:41, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

That's a question for the NCAA. We can't WP:OR create one.—Bagumba (talk) 10:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Exactly. Rikster2 (talk) 11:38, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

If there had been consensus third team this year there would have been 7 guys on it. One issue is that while there usually is some agreement at the top, once you get to third team the voting goes all sorts of directions and hard to truly say there was a consensus. Rikster2 (talk) 17:06, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

• IMO, I think the NCAA should take a look at this. Basketball has expanded quite a bit since it has begun consensus recognitions and A-A team player counts have stayed at 10 plus ties. In each of the last three years, the number was exactly 10. Also, in each year, expanding would have resulted in all players receiving votes on at least two 3-team ballots being a consensus A-A player resulting in 16, 15 & 17 such honorees rather than 10. I think the NCAA should look back at the data it has for three years and step up for the additional excellent ballplayers. IMO, I don't really think that it is too far of a stretch to say a guy who was recognized on 2 of 4 3-team slates should be recognized as consensus. I think this is as right as the NBA expanding All-NBA Team to three players in the late 1980s.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:00, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

So email the NCAA. Babumba’s point that Wikipedia should’nt be setting precedent for the “real world” is 100% correct. Rikster2 (talk) 02:25, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Of course, we can't create our own. I am not arguing in favor of that. I am just saying that since all selectors have acknowledged that there should be 3-team lists of honorees, the NCAA should recognize three teams of consensus honorees. I hate seeing a guy who is a power conference POY and not considered consensus A-A. I think expanding to three teams would lessen that issue.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:11, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

this year’s ACC player of the year didn’t make any All-American teams. That’s going to happen sometimes anyway. Rikster2 (talk) 11:42, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

I said lessen, note eliminate. There will be years when a power conference POY is really dookie and not even top 15, 16 or 17 in the country. However, sometimes he will be top 15 or so, but not top 10.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:52, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

There's nothing new since you brought this up in 2019. Short of a reliable source on this topic, this becomes WP:NOTFORUM.—Bagumba (talk) 09:50, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Okay WP:CBBALL is getting it right (it being that the NCAA is getting it wrong)..-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:52, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

NCAA Tournament Stadium trivia

I've been going through some of the old NCAA tournament pages, and have noticed that somebody, about three years ago, put unsourced info about the different NCAA tournament sites over the years. (You can see what I'm talking about here)

Personally, the whole thing reeks of WP:OR and WP:TRIVIA, and I would happily remove them as I see them, but I wanted somebody else's opinion first. To be clear, there are some in later years that are sourced (referring to North Carolina losing venues because of HB2 or South Carolina because of the Confederate Flag) - I would not want to touch these. My concern is only in the nonencyclopedic lists of "this site was the 30th site to host the Final Four" and the like. Thoughts? --fuzzy510 (talk) 07:26, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Even if it's true, I'd expect a reliable source to write about it as an indication that it might be interesting. Agree that it's otherwise unsourced and trivial.—Bagumba (talk) 09:01, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Quick question about grad transfers

If a player hasn't officially grad transferred yet, should the player be listed as being a member of his current team or as the team he is set to attend? The example is Paul Atkinson (basketball) who committed to transfer to Notre Dame, but will be a student at Yale until he graduates in June. Best, GPL93 (talk) 12:49, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

At a minimum, he should not be enrolled at a different school than what's in the inbox. This source says he wasn't graduating from Yale until after spring quarter.—Bagumba (talk) 12:55, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree as he also can still flip his commitment to a different school. It looks like Yale's commencement is on May 24, so he's definitely still enrolled there. Best, GPL93 (talk) 13:06, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

NCAA tournament host institutions?

Does anybody know of a source for historical host institutions (NOT sites) for past NCAA tournaments? In some of the cleanup work I've been doing, I've found the listed sites to be completely unsourced, and in many cases incorrect. I confirmed and corrected what I could off of old Youtube clips of old tournaments (courts used and the old banners displaying the name of the host institution), but that's not exactly the greatest source. Going forward (1990 and back), I'm going to remove host institutions for anything that's not an on-campus facility, because there's just wayyyyyy too much variability to be sure, and a lot of the currently listed hosts are based on (incorrect) assumptions --fuzzy510 (talk) 02:25, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

If nothing else, it's probably in a local paper. Some people just guess, which is problematic in some cases when there are multiple Division I teams in the area and it's not at a campus arena. Unless it's your alma mater, its probably not historically significant (WP:FANCRUFT?)—Bagumba (talk) 04:26, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it completely fancruft, since one of the criteria for whether a team can play at a site is whether they are the host institution. But with that said, it's not so crucially important that I'd be worried about removing potentially correct info when I KNOW that there's incorrect info in there as well. --fuzzy510 (talk) 05:09, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Bagumba, it is WP:FANCRUFT. Is it relevant to the actual game?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 14:21, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Proposed change in sports notability policy

A proposal is pending that would prohibit the creation of sports biographies unless supported by "substantial coverage in at least one non-routine source". In other words, articles supported solely by statistical databases would not be permitted, and at least one example of WP:SIGCOV would be required to be included before an article could be created. Also, article creation based on Wikiproject Guidelines would be curtailed. If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, you can express those views at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Fram's revised proposal. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:57, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

VCU and the no contest game

Maybe someone should explain to the NCAA what a no contest means. They currently list VCU as 19–8, not 19–7 as we have on here. So what is it really then? Do we follow NCAA.com, or stick with what we already have? NCAA standings The A-10 site is just as helpful, as they list VCU at 20–7 and defeating Dayton twice on March 5 by the same exact score. A-10 VCU schedule Bgredmchn (talk) 02:14, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Are there any sources that explicitly explain how the W-L was to be handled? Otherwise, it's an editorial decision on our part of how to weigh what the organization (NCAA) records it as vs what independent RSs say.—Bagumba (talk) 02:41, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I have not come across any other sources that even come close to how the W-L should be handled. Of course, we will also have the same decision on Oregon as well...NCAA has them 22–7, we have them as 21–7. Brian (talk) 04:53, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

"No contest" is in NCAA standard rules. It appears different than a forfeit, where a win and loss is assigned. See Statistics Policies and Guidelines. p. 23 Also support by The New York Times: "The N.C.A.A.’s view, for official record-keeping purposes, is that the game was a no-contest — that No. 7 seed Oregon advances without earning a win, and No. 10 seed Virginia Commonwealth is disqualified without taking a loss or considering the game a forfeit." The NCAA's COVID notice before the tournament only said "no contest" without specific details.[4]—Bagumba (talk) 10:04, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

With all that, one wonders why the NCAA.com site is still giving VCU a loss and Oregon a win. Maybe it's run by someone who doesn't exactly understand what is going on. ESPN, Yahoo, or sports-reference still list it as 19–7. I would rather depend on something official from the NCAA. Suppose we can find out when they release the official 2020–21 record book. Brian (talk) 21:56, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

NCAA has spoken. In an email I received from their Associate Director of Media Coordination and Statistics, she states that VCU is officially 19–7 and Oregon 21–7 and she is putting in the word to NCAA.com to adjust their standings page.Brian (talk) 08:16, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Injuries in roster listings

In team season articles, editors mark the roster for players who are out injured and when they have recovered. It reflects a current status. After the season is over, it seems like it doesn't make sense to keep this, as the meaning is ambiguous. (Example). Leaving the last status is undue, as an injury at the end of a season is no more historically significant than an injury suffered earlier. It also wouldn't make sense to mark any player who was ever injured during the season (too many). Is there support to leave injuries after the season is over? (Courtesy ping to Lawnmowerchair58.)—Bagumba (talk) 05:01, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I say reset the roster at the end of the season. Any major injuries during the year should be noted in the prose (which would imply a season article that contains prose of course). Rikster2 (talk) 13:19, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree. If the season is over, it should be reset and noted in the article as mentioned above. Brian (talk) 08:33, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Consensus needed for inclusion of college athlete parent categories

There is a consensus discussion underway about whether or not to include a parent category (in this case Category:College men's soccer players in the United States) in addition to the specific school category (for example Category:Akron Zips men's soccer players). One school of thought is that college athletics category structures should be similar, but another is that individual sport projects should be free to chart their own paths on the matter. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football#Use of parent category in addition to sub-category - consensus requested to join the discussion if you are so inclined. Rikster2 (talk) 12:05, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Depth charts

How do people feel about depth charts in team season articles? At WikiProject NBA, the general consensus is not to add them (WP:NBADEPTH), due to non-reliable sources and not accounting for backups playing multiple positions. Lawnmowerchair58 has added one at 2020–21_UCLA_Bruins_men's_basketball_team#Depth_Chart. However, it's not sourced to a depth chart, per se, but rather to a list of starting lineups. It seems the specific positions (SF, PF, etc) are WP:OR, as are the backups at each position.—Bagumba (talk) 04:52, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Not really sure as it would leave a lot open for the opinion of the editor at the time. Most teams don't really have a "set" lineup and it seems likely they might constantly change during the season. It must be catching on, I just seen VCU also has one.Brian (talk) 08:23, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Have we reached a consensus that these are considered WP:OR if there is no source? The only thing I have seen is rotowire and realgm, but they are only for during the actual season, and their depth charts may also be WP:OR if it's not released by the school. Brian (talk) 05:45, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

As nobody is defending them, it seems there is no consensus to have them. The other problem with sources is that they never say when (if ever) they were updated.—Bagumba (talk) 06:15, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

2020–21 Philly Big 5 winner?

How are we handling this year's Philadelphia Big 5 update?

• La Salle went 1–1
• Penn went 0–0
• Saint Joseph's went 1–2
• Temple went 0–0
• Villanova went 1–0

I'm inclined to say that Villanova is the champion by virtue of the best winning percentage among the three teams tied with 1 win. Obviously this scenario has never occurred in Big 5 history (thanks Covid). Thoughts on how to proceed? SportsGuy789 (talk) 19:25, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Would say so far, there isn't much to go on since this has never happened before. Would just leave it as undetermined at this point. Even the official website has no update about it either. I sent them an email, see what happens with that. Brian (talk) 23:20, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Let us know what the Big 5 rep says! SportsGuy789 (talk) 22:15, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Dean Kenefick <dean.kenefick@villanova.edu To:bigredpoolplaya@yahoo.com Sat, May 1 at 10:12 PM; "There was no official Big 5 champion for the 2020-21 season." Brian (talk) 05:19, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Good to know. Can you ask him if that also means there will not a Robert V. Geasey Trophy winner? It's hard to imagine them giving a Big 5 MVP award out but not declare the season champions. SportsGuy789 (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

According to Dean, even though a champion was not officially crowned, the All-Big 5 teams and major awards winners will be announced next week. Brian (talk) 22:14, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for looking into this! SportsGuy789 (talk) 17:14, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Team logos added to conference membership tables

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#Addition of team logos within conference membership table in which you might be interested. UW Dawgs (talk) 02:21, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball § Locke Olson

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball § Locke Olson. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 01:23, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

FAR for Lee Smith

I have nominated Lee Smith (baseball) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm _Talk 22:16, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Moving the color template for Southern Connecticut Owls

I noticed this at Scott Burrell, but apparently there was a name change for Southern Connecticut State's mascot from the "Southern Connecticut Fighting Owls" to "Southern Connecticut Owls". However, the color template of Reflex Blue and White did not move with the name change for the article. Not entirely sure if this WikiProject is the correct venue but I'm not entirely sure where one goes about fixing color templates. Best, GPL93 (talk) 13:38, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

College basketball standings templates up for deletion

An editor has nominated several college basketball standings templates for deletion. Interested editors who would want to comment see Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 June 5#Basketball Standings for the relevant discussion.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 01:00, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Cannabis and sports

New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand the Basketball section? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:57, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Is this project more or less dead?

There haven't been many actual discussions on here on forever. I remember when there used to be collaboration, consensus building, and a team effort. While I understand there are some core members who still actively contribute, this WikiProject as a whole is a ghost town. SportsGuy789 (talk) 12:44, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Seems on par with some of the other North American sports i.e. expect one or two responses per thread.—Bagumba (talk) 09:40, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

I always read and if it’s a topic I have an opinion on I will comment. Rikster2 (talk) 10:44, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps my memories of this project are through rose-colored glasses, because I recall there being robust dialogue in the past. Nonetheless, it's good that this project is still going strong, even if its talk page isn't. SportsGuy789 (talk) 15:00, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

It's pretty common for WikiProjects to have some common editors without having lively WT discussions. Honestly, it seems Wikipedia as a whole has lost contributors in the last few years, but not enough to noticeably decline in quality. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 01:08, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

2021-22 season articles

The 2021-22 season has begun, and only about half of D1 teams have articles. Please try to help by creating them. It is a major undertaking but can be done as a collaborative effort. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 02:08, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

T-Mobile Arena Paradise or Las Vegas?

Which city do you think that T-Mobile Arena is in? I saw Paradise in the arena article but then I checked the official arena website and it says Las Vegas. I feel like if we want to be completely accurate with the city that we should put it in Las Vegas. Thoughts? GoWarriors151718 (talk) 03:04, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

I would note that on similar team pages to the college basketball ones you are asking about, the location is listed as Paradise. See UNLV's sesaon, UNLV's main page, and the Golden Knights' main page. Additionally, the page for the T-Mobile Arena states that it is Paradise, so I believe we should be consistent with that. The page for the Las Vegas Strip also notes that it is located in Paradise, Nevada. I read through WP:PLACE, but couldn't find any specific guidance for this, but I believe its location should be Paradise, as that would be consistent with the arena's page and other pages on Wikipedia. Swimmer33 (talk) 15:30, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

I'd be interested to understand the rationale of using the unincorporated area versus a more recognizable town that's part of a mailing address. Seems kind of a case WP:ASTONISH for Las Vegas Strip locations.—Bagumba (talk) 08:42, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Paige Bueckers peer review

I have requested Paige Bueckers to be peer reviewed in hopes of bringing it to featured article status. Any feedback would be appreciated. Sportzeditz (talk) 15:35, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

"College of Charleston" or just "Charleston"

This discussion is long overdue. What the heck is the naming convention? Article titles and categories still use College of Charleston. But the ledes and some standings templates now use just Charleston. This conversation impacts all of the college sports WikiProjects so I'll drop their talkpages a note to participate here. Input requested from the college basketball members. SportsGuy789 (talk) 23:54, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

• I don't know if this settles it, but the institution generally refers to its athletic program as "College of Charleston Cougars." See [5]. So I would generally favor the longer title, especially to distinguish from Charleston Southern. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 13:17, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

WP:Commonname is College of Charleston.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 14:17, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Concur with above. Billcasey905 (talk) 15:01, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Okay that's how I feel about it too, just wanted some others' input. Thanks! SportsGuy789 (talk) 16:41, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Featured Article Save Award for Lee Smith (baseball)

There is a Featured Article Save Award nomination at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Lee Smith (baseball)/archive1. Please join the discussion to recognize and celebrate editors who helped save this featured article from demotion. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:56, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject Purdue University

Hey all! I would like to invite any editors here to show their support for and potentially join the new WikiProject: Purdue University. It hasn't technically been made yet, and I only proposed it just a few minutes ago, but I'm trying to start out strong. The Project would aim to improve existing Purdue University-related articles and create new ones. As it is still in the proposal process, you can show your support here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Purdue University. Thanks!! Invinciblewalnut (talk) 20:24, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Category:Big Ten Men's Basketball Tournament championship seasons has been nominated for discussion

Category:Big Ten Men's Basketball Tournament championship seasons has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. SportsGuy789 (talk) 18:49, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Would still love some input from others: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 December 29#College basketball tournament champion seasons. SportsGuy789 (talk) 18:29, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Paige Bueckers FAC

I have nominated Paige Bueckers for featured article consideration, and would appreciate any comments at the FAC page. Sportzeditz (talk) 17:09, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

NCAA transfer portal

An article on the NCAA transfer portal was long overdue. I took a shot at starting the article today, but it's an important topic and welcome any help in developing the topic further. Among other things, it would be good to include data on the number of athletes entering the portal each year. Cbl62 (talk) 01:27, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

FAR for Cliff Clinkscales

I have nominated Cliff Clinkscales for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm _Talk 21:11, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Conference Player of the Year article effort – progress update

It's been years since this project has had an update on CPOY articles. We've knocked out so many more dozens of player biographies since then, but we still have a good amount of work left. But hey, how do you climb to the top of a mountain? One step at a time. The following CPOY templates are complete: A-10, American South, ACC, America East, AAC, American West, Big 12, Big East, Big Eight, Big South, Big Ten, CAA, C-USA, Great Midwest, Great West, Horizon, Metro, Midwestern, MVC, Mountain West, Pac-12, Patriot, SEC, SoCon, SWAC, West Coast, WAC

Below are the number of articles needed to complete the rest:

• ASUN → 14
• Big Sky → 12
• Big West → 12
• East Coast → 5
• Gulf Star → 2
• Ivy → 14
• MAAC → 8
• Mid-American → 10

• MEAC → 14
• NEC → 10
• OVC → 12
• Southwest → 5
• Southland → 14
• Summit → 8
• Sun Belt → 6

Does anyone wish to volunteer to "adopt" one of these conference and then create one or two (or more, if inspired) corresponding CPOY articles? I'll adopt the American West, since I recently created that and I know I can knock out the only two needed. Thoughts? SportsGuy789 (talk) 23:43, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Tagging the WP:CBBALL regulars... @Rikster2:, @UCO2009bluejay:, @Bagumba:, @TonyTheTiger:, @Mjs32193:, @Editorofthewiki:, @Zagalejo:, @Dale Arnett:, @Pvmoutside:, @DaHuzyBru: —SportsGuy789 (talk) 23:50, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@CalDoesIt:, @Sportzeditz:. Rikster2 (talk) 12:09, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

I don't know about adopting any conferences, but I will try to create a few missing player of the year articles. Several weeks ago I created George Cale, who was the MEAC player of the year in 1987. I'll see what else I can dig up for other players. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 22:28, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Eddy. Whatever articles you might feel inspired to write, regardless of conference, please do! I knocked out one of two remaining for the American West (Ben Larson). SportsGuy789 (talk) 23:59, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I have a couple on my radar that I can do from the OVC and MAC. Sorry, I don't have as much concentrated time to write articles as I once did so my pace has slowed considerably. Rikster2 (talk) 13:49, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Neither do I, unfortunately. I hit spurts where I can make a couple, but then life gets in the way and then the most updating I can do again is drive-by stuff. I think a good, attainable goal would be to finish out American West, Gulf Star, and Southwest all before the end of 2021. SportsGuy789 (talk) 15:03, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

I recently created Thomas Terrell, a 2002 ASUN recipient. It's difficult to find sources for players' pro careers from 15 years ago and earlier. Like I can see "he played in Israel, France, Spain, Italy, etc" but it can be challenging to find the specific teams. That said, it should be reasonable to knock out the American West, Gulf Star, and Southwest by the end of the year. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 01:08, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Just finished the American West. SportsGuy789 (talk) 00:14, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Nice. Just created Louis Dale, the most recent Ivy PoY without a page. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 21:33, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Recently created Anthony Winchester of the Sun Belt and Antoine Brockington of the MEAC. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 02:44, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

David Patten of the Big Sky done. Might not be a bad idea to focus a little on the 21st century ones since sources are easier to find. Rikster2 (talk) 21:39, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Kind of a different way to look at these, but for the 2007–08 season we are only missing 4 CPOYs - Thomas Sanders (basketball) (ASUN), Scott Cutley (Big West), Jamar Smith (basketball, born 1985) (MEAC) and Josh Alexander (basketball) (Southland). All seasons after that one are completed. Rikster2 (talk) 16:47, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

I like digging up the more historical players' information because of my access to newspapers.com. I'm not opposed to creating more recent players' articles of course, but the older guys' pro careers are done by now and so their infoboxes are usually complete. I haven't had nearly the free time I thought I'd have around the holidays to work on more creations, but come hell or high water I will try to get at least one more bio done before 2022. SportsGuy789 (talk) 14:52, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Finally created Josh Alexander, one of the more recent winners. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 14:48, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

I'll adopt the MAAC and NEC for now, then anything else that needs filling in. Brian (talk) 21:31, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

NCAA Division II seasons

A new article within this group's scope was unilaterally moved to Draft:2022 NCAA Division II Women's Basketball Tournament today. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:44, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

• I think this should stay at draft until the tournament is underway. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 14:34, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

• It's completely unsourced.—Bagumba (talk) 15:40, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Is there really no next/previous for infoboxes?

This seems like a pretty incredible oversight. I stumbled across 2019 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Championship Game and was surprised to see no Next/Previous like articles for most other sports. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but how to we fix this? Mannysoloway (talk) 01:40, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Modifying this infobox that is currently in use for motorsport season is certainly a possibility.

2019 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament

Previous

2018

Next

2020

Hi @Frietjes:! Any chance you could add this function into {{Infobox NCAA basketball game}}? SportsGuy789 (talk) 03:38, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Pinging @Frietjes: again. Might you be able to assist? You're my coding guru! SportsGuy789 (talk) 16:31, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

added using syntax from Template:Infobox basketball game. Frietjes (talk) 17:14, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the assist! @Mannysoloway: your request to add that infobox parameter has been added. SportsGuy789 (talk) 20:19, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Question about displaying forfeit

In the current ACC women's season it looks like Notre Dame and Virginia were unable to play after the game was rescheduled twice. If you count UVA's record you get 2-15, yet the ACC is showing it as 2-16. Similarly, if you count up Notre Dame's record, you get 12-4, yet the ACC shows 13-4. What is the appropriate way to display this on the team's pages? Thanks for any input. Swimmer33 (talk) 16:15, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

MSM Mountainers edits

Hello everyone,

I've checked early this month via uncat categories that categories for some pages about Mount St. Mary's Mountaineers are problematic, and that new categories has been created for that. Again, adding cats for MAC basket seasons cats has made me comeback for this problem. I'm not sure about the cats policy in US college sports, so I'm asking help for someone who is more regular in working in that topic to make the correct changes.

Here's the problematic pages:

• Mount St. Mary's Mountaineers men's basketball
• Mount St. Mary's Mountaineers men's lacrosse
• 2022 Mount St. Mary's Mountaineers men's lacrosse team

I'm thinking, after checking more pages, that a whole check of the MOS layout of the athletics department pages may be needed.

Already thanks for your answers, Anas1712 (talk) 23:01, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

• I don’t understand - please be specific about what is problematic with these pages. I am willing to help but do not understand the issue being raised. Rikster2 (talk) 23:06, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Anas1712, hard to follow your message, but I did see some problems with the category tree for Mount St. Mary's University and made a bunch of cleanup edits. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:54, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for all, that's what I needed, an expert third-eye to look for the articles (and mainly their categories) and the category tree, especially as the user who made many edits had created 2 new categories for NCAA Divsion I teams that I wasn't sure where to place. --Anas1712 (talk) 21:23, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

So is it an issue with individual pages, or categories? Or has the issue been dealt with. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 02:45, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Wait... when did NIT appearances make it into the programs' infobox?

I noticed on Georgia State Panthers men's basketball that "NIT Tournament" appearances show in the infobox for 2002 and 2014. When did this happen and was there consensus? I have a suspicion there was never consensus to begin with, as no active editors of this WikiProject are stupid enough to agree to "NIT Tournament" (redundant) to be included in a major part of all programs articles. SportsGuy789 (talk) 03:59, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Consensus back in 2016 was to remove them (Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_Basketball/Archive_6#Additions_of_NIT_to_school_infobox).—Bagumba (talk) 04:12, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

@Bagumba: Thanks for the link. How do we get the NIT parameter removed? I also wonder if there are any other fields in Infobox CBB Team that shouldn't be there. SportsGuy789 (talk) 13:11, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Any autoconfirmed editor can edit the template. As for other fields, consensus can change, no different than with article text.—Bagumba (talk) 13:24, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Input needed for new WP:NBASKETBALL notability criteria

Based on the results of a recent RfC about the notability guidance for athletes, all "participation" criteria ("played at least one game in league X") have been removed. As a set of Wikiprojects we need to come up with new criteria. A centralized discussion was been started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 43#NHOOPS - please come and give input so that we can build the new guideline. Thanks Rikster2 (talk) 13:59, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Loyola Chicago vs Loyola Illinois?

Is it possible to have a centralized discussion about this? I've seen some inconsistency throughout Wikipedia. My gut feeling is that Loyola Chicago is more common in current sources (see ESPN, CBS Sports, etc). As an alum, I've always thought Loyola Chicago was more natural, anyway - "Chicago" is part of the school's full name, not Illinois. Zagalejo (talk) 13:06, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

1. I'd go with Loyola Chicago or Loyola–Chicago, not with Loyola Illinois or Loyola–Illinois. SportsGuy789 (talk) 13:13, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
2. Yes please. I have been begging someone who cared enough to keep changing the display name to start the discussion. I vote we DO change the display name to Loyola Chicago (no hyphen - which seems to match the majority of sources) but do have a question about articles like "Loyola Ramblers men's basketball." Should that be "Loyola" or "Loyola Chicago?" Seems like keeping these as just Loyola would fit convention with the MVC site (a place with only one Loyola), etc Rikster2 (talk) 13:25, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

The other Loyola schools have their own nicknames (Lions, Greyhounds, Wolf Pack), so I'd be content with leaving pages like Loyola Ramblers men's basketball alone. Zagalejo (talk) 19:19, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

• This issue comes up with football as well. (Yes, Loyola Chicago at one time had a notable football team.) My experience there is consistent with the above comments. I never saw it referred to as "Loyola Illinois". I agree that "Loyola Chicago" is preferable. BTW, this same point applies equally to LMU which (before the merger with Marymount) was known as "Loyola Los Angeles" and NOT as "Loyola California". Cbl62 (talk) 21:02, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
  • I would disagree in that the 3 Loyolas for many years were differentiated in national media by the state, similar to how the 2 Miamis are still today. Look at an old Street and Smith and you absolutely would see “Loyola (IL),” “Loyola (CA),” etc. it is just that things have evolved since. Rikster2 (talk) 22:07, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
  • As with every other name follow the sources to see if WP:Commonname can be established, either it should be Loyola Chicago or Loyola (IL), the other issue is Loyola Ramblers though.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 01:29, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

• @Rikster2: We are seeking to identify the "common name". The fact that a particular publication (e.g., Street and Smith) may have disambiguated by state is not dispositive. What should control is what has been most common. A search of Newspapers.com shows that the cities are, by far, the more common method of disambiguation:

• 488,000 hits for "loyala chicago" (here) vs. 20K hits for "Loyola Illinois" (here).
• 68,000 hits for "loyola los angeles" (here) vs. 11,000 hits for "loyola california" (here).
• 101,000 hits for "loyola new orleans" (here) vs. 16,000 hits for "loyola louisiana" (here).

In each case, the usage in newspapers favors the city as a disambiguator by a ratio of at least 6-to-1 over disambiguation by state. In the Chicago case, the usage is > 20-to-1 in favor of "loyola chicago" over "loyola illinois". Cbl62 (talk) 03:11, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

"Loyola University Maryland" is the lone exception where state seems to control over the city, and even in that case usage is split about 50/50 between "loyola baltimore" (49,000) and "loyola maryland"(44,000). Given the even split in voting in that case, it seems fair to continue using the official name (Loyola Maryland), but the other cases overwhelmingly favor city over state. Cbl62 (talk) 03:16, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Contemporary name of the California school is Loyola Marymount.—Bagumba (talk) 09:31, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

I raised LMU because we do have articles on the schools football teams from the 1920s and 1930s, prior to the merger with Marymount. In those days, the school was typically referenced as Loyola Los Angeles and not Loyola California. Cbl62 (talk) 15:33, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Right. And since that has been true since 1973 why do we think Google hits would reflect anything about the state differentiator being used in a sports context? Any usage was pre-Internet. But again, that’s beside the main point here. Rikster2 (talk) 10:11, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Cbl, I agree we are seeking the current common name and !voted as such. My point stands, that for YEARS everyone who published standings tables and other athletic info distinguished the schools of common names by the state, a practice that continues today for the Miamis. It is a much more recent phenomenon that sites like ESPN and the like have been using “Loyola Chicago” instead of the state DAB. It’s why the display name for this was set at “Loyola (Illinois)” to begin with. It is beside the main point being decided, so I am not that interested in continuing to debate the issue. Rikster2 (talk) 09:01, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

I tend to see it referred as Loyola–Chicago the most, so that would be my preference. The current "Loyola Ramblers" can stay however. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 15:07, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

• FWIW, the usage of "loyola chicago" over "loyola illinois" is strong in both modern times and olden times per these Newspapers.com searches:

* 1973-2022: 309,000 hits for "loyola chicago" vs. 15,000 hits for "loyola illinois" -- a ratio of about 20-to-1.

* 1900-1972: 183,000 hits for "loyola chicago" vs. 5,800 for "loyola illinois" -- a ratio of greater than 20-to-1.

It seems pretty clear that "loyola chicago" is (and was) the common name. And not only that, it's also the official name. See Loyola University Chicago and the school coat of arms, all of which use the city name and not the state name. Cbl62 (talk) 15:43, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

• • Whatever man, again, it is just a side issue. "Illinois" was always just a parenthetical next to the Loyola name on standings, etc. (usually just "Ill." or "IL"). If you really wanted to suss out usage, It was likely just "Loyola" overwhelmingly. The state DABs were only used in places were schools of the same name might appear together. Why don't you spend your time figuring out if it should be "Loyola Chicago" or "Loyola–Chicago," since we all are in violent agreement it should change? Rikster2 (talk) 16:01, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

To quote you, "whatever man". Spend your time as you see fit, and I'll do the same. Cbl62 (talk) 21:21, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

• Between Loyola Chicago and Loyola–Chicago, I'd prefer Loyola Chicago. I don't know how you demonstrate that one is more common than the other, but Loyola Chicago seems common enough for me, and slightly easier to implement. We wouldn't need to worry about tedious hyphen/en-dash housekeeping. Zagalejo (talk) 04:27, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

This is not about personal preference. It never should be. Hyphen/en-dashing is of paramount importance when we have to create articles about the Louisiana–Monroe Warhawks and Texas A&M–Corpus Christi Islanders which have endashes in their names. Compare that to Cal State Fullerton Titans which doesn't. CSU Pueblo ThunderWolves recently had a page move over the whole issue of an endash. To include it where it doesn't belong or to omit it when it does is a spelling error.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 13:09, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Loyola Chicago is not wrong in any sense. I can easily find that construction in ESPN or CBS Sports publications. If neither format is clearly wrong, then what the heck - let's go for the version that's less of a hassle. IAR. The MOS is just lipstick on a pig when articles have more serious problems. I hate how so much time has been wasted over the years on punctuation minutiae that 99% of readers won't care about. Zagalejo (talk) 14:47, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Anyway, Loyola's style guide specifically advises against Loyola–Chicago. Zagalejo (talk) 15:01, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

That seems pretty clear then. Rikster2 (talk) 15:18, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

@Rikster2: @Zagalejo: @UCO2009bluejay: @Cbl62: @Editorofthewiki: @Bagumba: Given that Zagalejo just found the smoking gun where Loyola–Chicago is definitively not acceptable, and that it seems all of us are in general agreement to begin with (it was just a matter of Loyola Chicago vs. Loyola–Chicago), I propose two things: (1) That Loyola Ramblers and all of the associated athletics pages get moved to Loyola Chicago Ramblers except for the football program due to its historical naming convention, and (2) we close this discussion off "Afd-style" where no further input is accepted - a new discussion, if ever warranted, can reference this one but is not a continuation of this one. Thoughts? SportsGuy789 (talk) 15:53, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Actually, not sure I agree the sport team pages get moved to "Loyola Chicago Ramblers." I don't think there is consensus around that. I do think we can run with "Loyola Chicago" for the display name though, because there is agreement (and several other editors who change the display name to that or some version but haven't taken part in the discussion. Rikster2 (talk) 15:56, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure that actually is the smoking gun, so to speak (I couldn't actually find the part advising against Loyola-Chicago, but I'll take your word). I'd also be opposed to moving the page to "Loyola Chicago Ramblers men's basketball" because a) It's not common, unless the need for disambiguation and b) the website itself refers to "Loyola Ramblers". I'd personally prefer Loyola-Chicago or Loyola (Chicago) if it's unclear, but I think simply Loyola Chicago would be workable as well, in pages such as season articles where it could be confused with Loyola (Maryland). ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 16:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Page 11 of the style guide Rikster2 (talk) 19:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

• I am not so concerned with moving "Loyola Ramblers" to "Loyola Chicago Ramblers". "Loyola Ramblers" is already sufficiently dis-ambiguated anyway. Where we do need dis-ambiguation is in places where we omit the mascot name, for example, in schedule charts listing opponents. In those cases, "Loyola" does require dis-ambiguation, and I think it should be "Loyola (Chicago)" or "Loyola Chicago" (either is fine IMO) rather than "Loyola (IL)". Cbl62 (talk) 22:12, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

• It never really appears as “Loyola (Chicago)” though. Go look at the standings and scores at ESPN, Foxsports, CBSSports - all are “Loyola Chicago.” When you go to the MVC standings, it’s just “Loyola” Rikster2 (talk) 22:51, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

The parenthetical would simply be to conform to how we do other disambigs in schedule charts, but either "Loyola Chicago" or "Loyola (Chicago)" should be fine. Cbl62 (talk) 12:15, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

I'd keep the team page and related categories at "Loyola Ramblers", but go with "Loyola Chicago" (no parentheses or dash) when disambiguation is needed. Evidence:

* The NCAA calls the program "Loyola Chicago" throughout its statistical record books. See, e.g., the official 2021–22 NCAA D-I men's basketball record book, which uses "Loyola Chicago" throughout. One example is in its list of "all-time winningest D-I schools", which actually includes all D-I schools; on page 73, you'll see "Loyola Chicago".

* The basketball standings pages at ESPN, CBS Sports, and Sports Illustrated all use "Loyola Chicago", again with no dash or parentheses (CBS Sports abbreviates "Chicago", the others spell it out).

* This ESPN story, including one columnist's ranking of the top 10 "mid-major" teams, uses "Loyola Chicago". — Dale Arnett (talk) 19:55, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Well my point was confirmed. It does matter. Otherwise Loyola wouldn't care if it was Loyola–Chicago. I support Loyola Chicago as that appears to be the mainstream usage. Again with the Ramblers what is the common name? Whether they use Chicago or not, I support the use of the common name, whatever it may be.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 05:38, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

• Recommend closure - Can we all agree that the display name is Loyola Chicago and that there will be no change to the athletic pages (still read as "Loyola Rambles sport foo")? It would be great to just implement a common sense change that I think many have been independently lobbying for via edits for years. 20:10, 14 March 2022 (UTC)Rikster2 (talk)

• Sounds good to me. Zagalejo (talk) 02:52, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

• OK, I am just going to start making edits then. If anyone has strong concerns say so. It seems like EVERYONE agrees it is "Loyola Chicago" in some form and without the dash seems to be the most common representation. Rikster2 (talk) 13:25, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

• Agreed. Cbl62 (talk) 14:08, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

"Seeding Strength Index"

The articles 2022 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament and 2021 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament have a "Record by conference" table which includes a "Seeding Strength Index" column. That column is defined as "Seeding Strength Index sums the total of seeds earned by the conference attributing a seed of 17 to unseeded conference members and dividing that sum by number of conference members to equate conference size." Searching online for the term gets no hits in a college basketball context, other than Wikipedia, at least that I can identify. This concept, and the specific math behind it, may be WP:ORIGINAL. Anyone have more insight? Thanks. Dmoore5556 (talk) 05:52, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Sounds like advanced analytics at best. Probably WP:UNDUE to display.—Bagumba (talk) 06:14, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Page histories show it was added on March 14 by an editor for which those were the only edits made to date. Removed. Dmoore5556 (talk) 14:08, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

More fancruft at 2022 tournament

See local announcers section. It was removed an an IP readded it.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 23:44, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

2022 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans

How common is it that someone is a power conference player of the year like Atlantic Coast Conference Men's Basketball Player of the Year Alondes Williams without appearing on any 3-team All-American teams, while someone else in his conference is 2022 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans from that conference like Paolo Banchero?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:59, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

• Today they said Armando Bacot was runner up, so Banchero is not even considered among the best players in his conference. This is crazy.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:57, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
  • It's often just conference politicking. SportsGuy789 (talk) 14:38, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
    • Williams and Bacot were both better than Banchero in conference play but Duke was the only nationally relevant ACC program during the regular season Rikster2 (talk) 17:25, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

2022_NCAA_Division_I_Men's_Basketball_Tournament#Upsets

What counts as an Upset? Apparently not 10 over a 7 or a 9 over an 8.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:53, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

8 over a 9 is essentially a pick ‘em. I wouldn’t list it as an upset. Does the prose give a definition (like a certain number of seed lines)? Rikster2 (talk) 03:34, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

WP:CRUFT? Prior year's articles address upsets in prose, not an enumeration. That said, the 2021 article states: using the NCAA's definition of "upset" as a win by a team seeded five or more lines below its defeated opponent. Dmoore5556 (talk) 04:30, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

I am not sure whether it is CRUFT, but I don't like all the subsections that were recently added. I think each upset should say the region and round inline.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:46, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

I think it could be formatted better or turned into prose. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 00:45, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Yep, excessive sub-sections; I re-structured it as a table. Dmoore5556 (talk) 05:13, 25 March 2022 (UTC)User:Dmoore5556, well done.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:14, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

User:Dmoore5556, well done.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:14, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Upset content

Above, I commented on the presentation of the upset content at 2022_NCAA_Division_I_Men's_Basketball_Tournament#Upsets. I am now wondering if we have any content on the all-time records by school or coach and the single-year record.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:18, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

2022 McDonald's All-American Boys Game

After a 5-year hiatus, the 2022 McDonald's All-American Boys Game returned to Chicago. With the current state of my back, I did not bring my camera bag, but I did bring a camera to the game hoping to help fulfill some of the photography needs of this project and other basketball related projects with content like this User:TonyTheTiger/NBAguyphotos. However, I was not allowed to bring in a camera. I don't know if it is because 1. Wintrust Arena is stricter than the United Center, 2. the name and likeness landscape and NFT world has changed the meaning of my efforts, 3. I have not been active enough doing things for my city and wikipedia to make people want to pull strings behind the scenes to make it possible, but whatever the reason, we won't have pictures even though the game and I were here this year.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:35, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

The size of the lens is unsually the concern, and then it's up to the particular guard who screens you. I tried moving to a different entrance once and saved myself having to go back to the car and dump my camera.—Bagumba (talk) 10:01, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

I had the same lens that I used in 3 or 4 of the 5 games I shot between 2013 and 2017. I also only took one lens because I can't carry a lot of weight right now while I am in recovery.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:28, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Roster question

What is the consensus on rosters on these team pages? The default putting players in order by jersey number, right? I ask this because there is a page that I am working on where someone changes the order from jersey number to walk-on/scholarship order with the scholarship guys on top and all the walk-ons on bottom regardless of jersey. Here is an example of what I am trying to say. (Jersey: #0, 1(W), 2, 3...to 0, 2, 3, 1(W).) Thanks for your opinions. GoWarriors151718 (talk) 05:06, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

NBA proj sorts by name. The columns are sortable, so it's not that big to change. Personally, I'd vote name, since I dont think most readers are as familar with a given player's number. But it should either be by name or number, not scholarship status.—Bagumba (talk) 05:42, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for your opinion. I agree with you that scholarship status is not a good way to sort players on these rosters templates. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't the only one who thought that. GoWarriors151718 (talk) 05:45, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move of March Madness (disambiguation) to March Madness

This page isn't listed as a project interest but I believe parties interested in the outcome are likely members of this project. Please feel invited to join the discussion at Talk:March Madness (disambiguation)#Requested move 4 April 2022. Thank you. BusterD (talk) 03:58, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Infobox question 2019 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Championship Game

Question for all those tech savvy infobox persons...errr, yeah. Not a big deal, but wondering why Texas Tech Red Raiders in the info box directs people to Texas Tech Red Raiders men's basketball and not the 2018–19 Texas Tech Red Raiders men's basketball team like all the prior seasons?Brian (talk) 04:31, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi. I took a look at what you were asking and the only thing I saw that could explain this is that the Virginia page for that season has the word men's in it whereas the Texas Tech page for that season does not. Perhaps not having "men's" in it has something to do with the link not being connected. GoWarriors151718 (talk) 06:21, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, probably related to them not having "men's" or "women's", per se, but Texas Tech Red Raiders basketball and Texas Tech Lady Raiders basketball. Someone designed this infobox "smart" to avoid human error and automatically encoding the specific team season links, but in the process it's "dumb" for assuming all have men's in the page title.—Bagumba (talk) 07:14, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

So it seems like the fix to {{Infobox NCAA basketball game}} would be to have a way to override |gender= for each team. That internally gets fed into {{cbb link}} to generate the team season link. Texas Tech men's pages don't have "men's" in their title. The poor man's way would be to create a redirect from 2018–19 Texas Tech Red Raiders men's basketball team to 2018–19 Texas Tech Red Raiders basketball team; that's similar to why UNLV works at 1990 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Championship Game.—Bagumba (talk) 09:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. Did the poor man's way and did a redirect, works like a charm now! Brian (talk) 19:08, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

2021–22 season

In 2021–22 NCAA Division I men's basketball season page, there is a section for preseason polls, and an empty section listed as "Final polls." I added the info in, as both polls are now final, but in looking back at past seasons, this was never added before. I've hidden the table for now, just wanted to get some thoughts on if it should be added.Brian (talk) 19:36, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Seems a bit more encyclopedic than preseason polls, so shouldn't be an issue if preseason is going to be included.—Bagumba (talk) 06:10, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

NCAA Tournament MOP

The page is titled NCAA Basketball Tournament Most Outstanding Player. However, Ochai Agbaji and lots of other pages pipe it as "NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player". Is there an official title to this award? I can't find anything definitive from a quick check. Sources refer to it interchangeably as the tourney MOP and the Final Four MOP. And does anyone know if there are any guidelines given to voters? The current WP page offers nothing verifiable.—Bagumba (talk) 18:27, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

While I found from Kansas website & kusports site calling it NCAA Tournament’s most outstanding player, this might take it from NCAA.com, which listed the awards from 1939-current as "Final Four Most Outstanding Players." Sorry, not sure this helps much. Brian (talk) 19:31, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

NCAA isn't consistent either with "tournament Most Outstanding Player" 3× here. Unfortunately, I haven't seen much prose about the award itself i.e. history, voting criteria, voting panel etc.—Bagumba (talk) 09:13, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Changes at List of NCAA Division I institutions‎

Please see the changes in edits at that page. There are changes that overhauled the page. Some discussion is needed regarding formatting. Thank you.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 17:55, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

1980 ECAC Metro Men's Basketball Tournament?

I saw where 1980 ECAC Metro Men's Basketball Tournament exists. It's listed in Category:MAAC Men's Basketball Tournament, yet nowhere on parent article MAAC Men's Basketball Tournament nor on navbox {{Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference Men's Basketball Tournament navbox}} does it exist.

Anyone know if the MAAC used to be called ECAC Metro, and secondly if the 1980 and 1981 conference tournaments are related to (or a part of) the MAAC Tournament's history? SportsGuy789 (talk) 23:46, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

The MAAC was never called the ECAC Metro. 1981-82 was the first season of MAAC basketball and Army, Fairfield, Fordham, Iona, Manhattan and Saint Peter's were the first six members, defectors of the ECAC Metro from the season prior. The ECAC Metro was it's own conference after the split, and eventually became the Northeast Conference in 1988. Brian (talk) 09:27, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Weird if you look into the Northeast Conference history though. On wiki, 1982 ECAC Metro Men's Basketball Tournament is stated to be the first tournament for them. Further research will show, that 1979-80 was actually the first season of the ECAC Metro, and a tournament was held in 1980 above, and in 1981. But no mention of those two tournaments on wiki, or even the NEC website. So it seems the MAAC doesn't want those two seasons, and neither does the NEC. Brian (talk) 09:44, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Naming conventions for standings templates

User:fuzzy510 has nominated several categories containing college basketball standing templates, e.g. Category:Big 12 Conference men's basketball standings templates, for renaming. I have opposed these nominations as I think instead it's the templates that should be renamed to bring them in line with analogous templates for other college sports; see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 27#Category:Big 12 Conference men's basketball standings templates for discussion. Thoughts? Jweiss11 (talk) 18:10, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

As I mentioned on the CfD, there's not a ton of consistency with the naming conventions there. Most specifically, Talk:Big Ten Men's Basketball Tournament had a discussion where the consensus was to move to the common name and drop "conference" across the board. If that's the standard, then we should be instead focusing on moving a *lot* of templates, pages, and categories (and nominations aside, I'd agree with that in line with WP:COMMONNAME). If we decide to use the formal names, then the nominations should be withdrawn and the templates moved back.

Personally, I think the common names are the way to go - you don't see people referring to the Southwestern Athletic Conference, it's almost universally referred to as the SWAC in all but the most formal settings - but it's definitely worth talking out, and goes far beyond the scope of just those few categories. --fuzzy510 (talk) 00:12, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

"Big Ten Men's Basketball Tournament" is a proper noun in its entirety, whereas "2022 Big Ten Conference football season" and "2022 Big Ten Conference football standings" are not proper nouns; they are complex phrases composed of proper nouns combined with common nouns. Such complex phrases should reflect the phrasing of their root proper noun's articles. We have Big Ten Conference and Southwestern Athletic Conference as article titles, not "Big Ten" and "SWAC". If "SWAC" is really the WP:COMMONNAME, then we need to rename the article. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:21, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

I think there's a serious argument to be made for some conference pages to be renamed - the SWAC, MEAC, and MAAC all come to mind as conferences where the abbreviated name is used far more frequently than the full name. -fuzzy510 (talk) 04:55, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Infobox basketball biography vs Infobox college coach

Why do we use both of these for college coaches? The first infobox seems to be used when the coach was a former standout player, like Hubert Davis. The thing missing from these ones, and the ones that use the second one is head coaching records, including current record at the school they are at. Check Rick Pitino. He was not a real standout player in college, and didn't play in the NBA, but we use the first infobox anyway. [[6]] I think this one looks cleaner for his current profession. The basketball biography can't even add the cleaner HOF image at the bottom. Brian (talk) 01:18, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

What probably happens is that a college coach goes to the NBA, and then someone converts it to use Infobox basketball biography. I'd prefer we just use Infobox basketball biography for all basketball people, but we'd need to decide what fields, if any, to add. Generally for NBA, it's been discouraged to have editors churn in daily stats updates. Stats are currently only shown in that ibx when a coach retires.—Bagumba (talk) 01:44, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Maybe not their overall coaching record would need to be added, there seems to always be a CBB Yearly Record Subhead for every coach with their overall and yearly records. Perhaps just current record at the school would be good enough. What looks good on the biography one is where college coach has CURRENT POSITION, the team name there does look a lot more professional. Just where it says LEAGUE and it says ATLANTIC COAST CONFERENCE just sounds wrong. Brian (talk) 04:17, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

League vs. Conference can be customized, though Google search does show them being referred to as leagues sometimes. Regarding the record with the current school, why is that uniquely notable for college? I don't believe it's in any other sports infobox. I think it's better to exclude per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE:

The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance.

—Bagumba (talk) 08:30, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

If I only was a template guy....doesn't mean I can't learn! I'm tempted to agree that records and such might be too extreme, and that going with infobox basketball biography seems the better way to go, although there should be some edits made to that infobox for college coaches and others. How do we go about getting consensus on this change? It would be a big overhaul for some coaches. Brian (talk) 19:45, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

We can give a few more days for people to chime in, or just change a few high-profile ones to start and see if there's any comment/reverts.—Bagumba (talk) 07:15, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

And just to add, I'm sure not anyone searching for Rick Pitino on wiki actually cares what his height and weight are, which I'm sure has changed since his UMass playing days in 1971! Brian (talk) 20:14, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

I think it's only listed for coaches who played in college, which is probably the only way it'd be public to begin with. Even if "nobody" did care, someone would inevitably fill it in anyways. —Bagumba (talk) 06:06, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

We may face an uphill battle regarding switching coaches to infobox basketball biography from infobox college coach. It may be better to see what can be edited on the latter to make it more inline with the biography one. I only say this as it seems about 96% of the current men's basketball head coaches are already using infobox college coach, easily 300+ coaches of 358 in D1 alone. Brian (talk) 01:39, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

We already have some mixed use, so I don't think it's critical to covert them all overnight. It's another story if people don't agree with a change.—Bagumba (talk) 05:20, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources

Main page: User:Headbomb/unreliable

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

"NC State Wolfpack" -- when did that usage become common?

See discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#"NC State Wolfpack" -- when did that usage become common?. Cbl62 (talk) 15:48, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Consensus needed for Project page and others

Would anyone have any objections to a revamp of the main project page, the infobox template on the right, and a cleanup of the userbox {{User College Basketball WikiProject}}? There wouldn't be huge changes, everything that is there will still be there, just a slightly cleaner look similar to our brother project at College football. I have added all the elements of it on my sandbox, the infobox will obviously be on the right like it is currently, not at the bottom like shown. I thought about what someone here told me a couple years ago, WP:BOLD, but this might be a little beyond that. Brian (talk) 01:36, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Edited the infobox on main project page since I have heard no objections. Still tweaking the other stuff, and if it doesn't fit the project, anyone is welcome to revert it back to the original. Brian (talk) 04:42, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

East Coast Conference POYs = finished

FYI all I just finished up the last remaining East Coast Conference Player of the Year player bio. Another comprehensive CPOY article in the books! SportsGuy789 (talk) 19:08, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

History in the making in 2022–23

Antoine Davis officially declared he's returning to Detroit Mercy for a fifth season. He already stands #22 in D1 scoring all-time, and #13 for career threes. Davis is also only 180 points behind Alfrederick Hughes as the Horizon League's top scorer. Barring injury, he'll definitely finish atop the Horizon League and career three-pointers lists. He's got an outside shot at surpassing Maravich, though that'd require him to average 31.1 ppg over a 30-game season. Not impossible, but a tall order. He'll easily finish #2 all-time no matter what.

Covid has been wreaking havoc on the all-time lists, and will continue to do so. Get ready for a lot of in-season updating to those statistics articles. SportsGuy789 (talk) 23:19, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

If Pistol Pete does get passed, I think there will be a giant (*) asterisk debate after. I don't usually support those, but I might in this case. Maravich scored 3,667 points in three seasons, and in just 83 games. Davis is on his fifth season, and barring injury, will end with about 141. Brian (talk) 17:42, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

I agree with you. There'd have to be giant asterisks for a lot of these lists, but especially the scoring records. SportsGuy789 (talk) 19:10, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Shortnaming the Loyolas

There is a discussion ongoing at WikiProject College football regarding the shortnaming the four Loyolas schools with the intention to bring about a consistent standard to be applied to all college sports. Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#Shortnaming the Loyolas. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 17:59, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

College career stats

There are some guys who do a ton of stats tables. I was wondering if anyone would drop a table in at Charlie Moore (basketball).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:45, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Help requested – need 5 more schools to complete this list

I just added the section All-time schools' scoring leaders to "List of NCAA Division I men's basketball career scoring leaders". I couldn't find any info online regarding the following schools' leaders:

• Alabama A&M
• Arkansas–Pine Bluff
• Florida A&M
• Prairie View A&M
• Southern

Does anyone have this info, or can try looking please? SportsGuy789 (talk) 23:14, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Alabama A&M, Arkansas Pine Bluff, Florida A&M, Prairie View, Southern Brian (talk) 17:50, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Granted, these will be from when the schools were D1 only. I did manage to find a media guide from 2011 for Alabama A&M, but even that only lists D1 scoring records. Brian (talk) 18:10, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I saw their sports-reference pages, and when I tried to cross reference the listed players on s-r to a third party source to confirm they're the all-time leading scorers, I couldn't find anything. For HBCUs, there's a 99% chance the all-time leading scorers are from the NAIA days, due to the tempo of the game back then. I don't want to put Division I era only scorers. I even checked newspapers.com for articles and nothing popped up. I might have to email these schools' SIDs next fall. SportsGuy789 (talk) 20:01, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Might be the only way to get it. Alabama A&M leader is Obie Trotter 2002-2006 with 1,726 points. It's also listed in their media guide from 2011, but even the school only lists the D1 scoring records. Brian (talk) 21:48, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Florida A&M went D1 in 1979, and SR lists the leading scorer as DeLon Turner 1,795 points, but this media guide from 1989-90 says David Wright 1966-1970 with 2,029 points. Brian (talk) 21:53, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Wright must be it, then! Between those two sources it's evident that he hasn't been surpassed. I found a Miami Herald article from May 1970 that says Wright averaged 30.6, 29.3, 31.8, and 27.3 ppg in his four years. Plus I found this 2013 University of Florida article listing the state of Florida's all-time 2,000-pt scorers up to that point, and Wright was #9 overall (but the top from FAMU). Thank you for scrounging up Wright's name, he's now been triangulated as their top scorer. SportsGuy789 (talk) 05:11, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for merger of Template:Infobox NCAA Division I women's basketball season

Template:Infobox NCAA Division I women's basketball season has been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox NCAA Division I men's basketball season. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:03, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Basketball players at the XXXX Final Four categories up for deletion

Discussion can be found here. Please chime in if you have an opinion either way. Rikster2 (talk) 20:56, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

1978 USBWA All-Americans

FYI

There is a discussion at Talk:1978 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans#USBWA selections regarding whether the USBWA divided their picks into first and second teams or not. —Bagumba (talk) 11:19, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament § Getting Article to GA Status

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament § Getting Article to GA Status. I've started a proposal for a new lead. The article needs a lot of work, it's in relatively poor quality for such an important topic to the sport Ha2772a (talk) 22:13, 21 September 2022 (UTC)