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April 27 edit
Pizza Mexicana edit
Pizza Mexicana with ham or pepperoni, pineapple and jalapeño peppers is a popular style of pizza in the Nordic countries. How similar is it to pizza that is actually eaten in Mexico? JIP | Talk 11:50, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- The idea of putting tinned pineapple on pizza is credited to Sam Panopoulos, a Greek-Canadian, in Ontario in 1962 (so maybe Pizza Canadensis?). Alansplodge (talk) 12:08, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- What makes it a pizza "Mexicana" in the Nordic countries is the jalapeño peppers, as Mexican cuisine is associated with spiciness. Is this true also for genuine Mexican pizza? JIP | Talk 12:17, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- It is (so far as I can tell) though, a universal phenomena for every culture to say "this food comes from this foreign culture" and it either has nothing to do with that culture or is only vaguely related. Mexicans sometimes do put jalapenos on their pizza, but the only things listed in that article that I couldn't order on a pizza back in South Carolina were chorizo and tripas. Ian.thomson (talk) 12:45, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- By the way, see below. Mexicans don't particularly put anything on their pizza. The paragraph you cite is referenced to a cookbook recipe for Taco Bell's Mexican Pizza, not to any native Mexican-made pizza. I wouldn't take anything said in that paragraph as referring to anything about Mexicans and their pizza-eating habits, rather to an American fast food chain creating a pizza-like dish with Americanized "Mexican"-type ingredients. --Jayron32 13:25, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- It is (so far as I can tell) though, a universal phenomena for every culture to say "this food comes from this foreign culture" and it either has nothing to do with that culture or is only vaguely related. Mexicans sometimes do put jalapenos on their pizza, but the only things listed in that article that I couldn't order on a pizza back in South Carolina were chorizo and tripas. Ian.thomson (talk) 12:45, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- What makes it a pizza "Mexicana" in the Nordic countries is the jalapeño peppers, as Mexican cuisine is associated with spiciness. Is this true also for genuine Mexican pizza? JIP | Talk 12:17, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- While we're going down this rabbit hole, in Mexican cuisine, there is a dish with pork, hot peppers, and pineapple known as tacos al pastor, which is based on the Eastern Mediterranean style of food known as shawarma/döner kebab/gyros. It's interesting that there's both an Eastern Med (Greek/Lebanese/etc) connection and a pineapple connection, through pineapple is not otherwise well represented in either the cuisine of Mexico or of the Eastern Med. --Jayron32 12:22, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Also, there's really not a "genuine" Mexican pizza. In Mexico, any pizza that you're likely to get will be from American chain restaurants (Dominos Pizza, Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, etc.) and the like, they don't really have a native "pizza culture". While Wikipedia has a tiny section on Mexican pizza, what this really is is an American invention that consist of putting typical Mexican ingredients, like salsa roja and taco-seasoned ground beef (which is itself an American approximation of actual Mexican cuisine, and mostly unknown in Mexico) on a pizza. There's not a typical "Mexican pizza", there's whatever random Mexicany-type ingredients the restaurant that made it decided to put on it (and, those ingredients generally don't include pineapple). --Jayron32 12:31, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Right, it's fusion cuisine. Similarly, American Chinese cuisine has little to do with food actually consumed in China, even though it's often referred to as "Chinese food" in the U.S.; it was created by Chinese immigrants to the U.S. who adapted some elements of Chinese cuisine to American tastes. For that matter, the global idea of "pizza" is itself an Italian-American dish that is loosely based on traditional Mediterranean flatbreads. In turn, American culture exported it across the world and then other cultures put their own twists on it. Good old cultural exchange! Tex-Mex is another good example. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 21:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- "...the global idea of "pizza" is itself an Italian-American dish that is loosely based on traditional Mediterranean flatbreads." A bit of US-centrism there. In Australia, the first pizza shops were established by Italian immigrants who had come directly to Australia without going via the US. I doubt they knew much at all about what was happening in America. Its culture had not begun to dominate in those days. HiLo48 (talk) 23:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
I'd also note that even if something is a an American fast food chain, what it served in a certain country can often be a complicated mix of American influence and local influence, depending somewhat on the management and freedom allowed. What people expect from the restaurant is likewise likely to be a complicated mix of what they expect from what kind of food, which will be influence by its American origins, and their local palates. Cost and east of production also comes into play.
For example, I'm fairly sure the reason Domino's in NZ and Australia have butter chicken inspired pizzas is not because someone in the US thought that's a good idea, it's because managers in NZ or Australia most of who are probably born in NZ/Australia thought they could come up with something which would be popular with the Kiwi and Aussie palates. I believe this is probably also the reason for the common apricot chicken pizza. And while possibly the Domino's lava cake was invented in the US, I strongly suspect the idea for a durian one originated from someone (if not multiple people) in South East Asia. Likewise the sambal sauce was probably the idea of a Malaysian or maybe Singaporean [1].
And it's not like locally grown chains or restaurants aren't likely influenced by the norms influenced in part by the US either. Hell Pizza came from NZ. But they have the same influences from the US, from Italy, from Australia etc that US pizza chains here tend to have. They have more freedom, and operate far more upmarket, which affects what they offer but I'm unconvinced this means their pizzas are more "Kiwi" than Domino's or Pizza Hut.
Mexico may in some ways have a stronger influence from US managers and tastes given it's geographical proximity, still with supposedly 120 million pizzas in 2016 [2], most I'm fairly sure for locals and not American tourists, I would be surprised if there is no Mexican influence on what goes on pizzas in Mexico. This is not to say you could identify anything as being distinctly Mexican about pizzas in Mexico, but rather you also can't simply say it's just American influence or an American idea of what is Mexican. In reality both are surely at play with both Mexicans in Mexico and Americans having a role.
You get the same thing in other areas e.g. the Kiwiburger. Fried chicken including spicy fried chicken at McDonald's in Malaysia. Nasi Lemak McD. The season Prosperity burger at McDonald's in Malaysia and I think Singapore. Hot and spicy being a permanent menu item at KFC in Malaysia and some other places, and being hotter than the one you get in NZ (and I expect Australia). It seems there's currently no fish burger at KFC in Malaysia, but from what I gather, they've had various attempts and it's lasted a lot longer there than it did the US. (It seems Jamaica is possibly another place?)
I've even heard anecdotal reports of Nando's restaurants in NZ making the mistake of following the South African norms for what 'hot', 'medium' and 'mild' means, to the surprise of customers for who 'hot' means something like 'medium' or maybe even less in South Africa. There's also the interesting case of Kenny Rogers Roasters, which is dead in the US but survived in Malaysia with some presence in other parts of Asia.
- "...the global idea of "pizza" is itself an Italian-American dish that is loosely based on traditional Mediterranean flatbreads." A bit of US-centrism there. In Australia, the first pizza shops were established by Italian immigrants who had come directly to Australia without going via the US. I doubt they knew much at all about what was happening in America. Its culture had not begun to dominate in those days. HiLo48 (talk) 23:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Right, it's fusion cuisine. Similarly, American Chinese cuisine has little to do with food actually consumed in China, even though it's often referred to as "Chinese food" in the U.S.; it was created by Chinese immigrants to the U.S. who adapted some elements of Chinese cuisine to American tastes. For that matter, the global idea of "pizza" is itself an Italian-American dish that is loosely based on traditional Mediterranean flatbreads. In turn, American culture exported it across the world and then other cultures put their own twists on it. Good old cultural exchange! Tex-Mex is another good example. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 21:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- Also, there's really not a "genuine" Mexican pizza. In Mexico, any pizza that you're likely to get will be from American chain restaurants (Dominos Pizza, Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, etc.) and the like, they don't really have a native "pizza culture". While Wikipedia has a tiny section on Mexican pizza, what this really is is an American invention that consist of putting typical Mexican ingredients, like salsa roja and taco-seasoned ground beef (which is itself an American approximation of actual Mexican cuisine, and mostly unknown in Mexico) on a pizza. There's not a typical "Mexican pizza", there's whatever random Mexicany-type ingredients the restaurant that made it decided to put on it (and, those ingredients generally don't include pineapple). --Jayron32 12:31, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Sudden Spike on Userpage Views? edit
I really have no clue where to ask this question, but I was looking at my Userstats on my Semi-Month Wikipedia binge, and I noticed that I had a massive spike of views on the 11 April, and that is about 10 days after my most recent edit at the time. I had 99 views on that day, while I typically have between zero and two. Anyone have speculation as to why that is? Just extremely curious :P - AquilaFasciata (talk | contribs) 23:55, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
- No idea and I don't think there's any way to reasonably guess what might drive that. I guess you're an "influencer" now? Matt Deres (talk) 14:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- Noice! Don't know enough about Wikipedia yet though :P - AquilaFasciata (talk | contribs) 19:50, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- There are plenty of things to worry about without inventing more. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:32, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- Don't worry, its just another glitch in the matrix. 107.15.157.44 (talk) 19:42, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
- Excellent point - AquilaFasciata (talk | contribs) 19:50, 28 April 2020 (UTC)