Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Shojo Beat/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 17:32, 22 September 2009 [1].

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Shojo Beat

Nominator(s): -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 22:51, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• Featured article candidates/Shojo Beat/archive1
• Featured article candidates/Shojo Beat/archive2

I am nominating this for featured article because I feel it meets the current featured article Critera. It is currently a Good Article and underwent an FAC preparatory peer review last month. All issues from that PR have been addressed. The article is complete, well sourced to quality, reliable sources, and covers all major aspects of the topic per guidelines. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 22:51, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:32, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

~silent scream~ I checked that when I first started, and ended up setting the wrong link at the dab is showed before :-P Fixed now. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 03:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

• Comments -
• What makes http://www.icv2.com/ a reliable source?

Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:17, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

ICv2 is a well-known, well-respected pop culture-focused news organization that has been around since the 80s. Their news reports and annual retailer uides have been quoted by The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal. Publishers Weekly, and of course Anime News Network and AnimeOnDVD/Mania. It used to be a print magazine called Internal Correspondence, a trade publication by Capital City Distribution until the latter was sold to Diamond Comic Distributors and its editor-in-chief, Milton Griepp, decided to continue it in its current online form. Very easily meets WP:RS :) -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 00:25, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I thought I recognized it... (Once, long ago, we sold comics through Capital City, of all things...) Ealdgyth - Talk 01:09, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

• Image check: The one image meets WP:NFCC. Stifle (talk) 09:15, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

It would be nice to have a little bit of explanation of the lesser known terms in the lead. Something so people don't have to click on "shōjo manga" and "light novel". We can probably assume that readers (of this article, anyways) know what manga and anime are. Although, if it gets on the main page, they would probably need more or orient them.

"In May 2009, the magazine was discontinued and the July 2009 issue being the last released." Sound funny. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:39, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Reworded the sentence. :) I'm not sure what the best way to add explanations would be without messing up the flow? Parentheticals? dash call outs (i.e. shojo manga—Japanese comics aimed at female readers aged 10-18 years—magazine)? or through footnotes? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 02:46, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, not a footnote. I don't think many people read them, and it still requires a click. I had to look up dashes, but apparently "A pair of em dashes for such interpolations is more arresting than a pair of commas, and less disruptive than parentheses." I usually use parens, but that might just be because I don't know a lot about dashes. Apparently commas are an option as well, although I'm not saying that's what I recommend. You decide, I don't think it makes a big difference. Wikipedia:Dash#Dashes talks about it of course, but doesn't mandate anything. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

"a circulation of 20,000 copies" word copies probably not needed (and in next sentence)

"with half of its circulation came from subscriptions rather than store sales." coming?

"some critics found the initial issues boring" is early better than initial? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:03, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

"that they were not subscribers themselves" themselves probably not needed.

"magazine" is used 8 times in the lead, including twice in two sentences. You could probably reduce this. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:06, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Fixed all and added the two notes :) -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 04:02, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I adjusted it some. As you mentioned, it's hard to do without messing up the flow. Not sure what to do. We may have to just rely on the wikilinks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:08, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah...either way its messing up the flow, and its hard to summarize succinctly. I think the shojo part can probably be gleaned from the second lead paragraph, since it does not the audience there...for light novels, I think just let them click over if they want to know the full details? For other manga FAs, I think that's what we did as well. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 05:20, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

You might want to start a new paragraph after "featured Nana Komatsu of Nana on its July-dated cover." It seems like the stuff after that is its own idea.

"who would inspire the readers." - Maybe get rid of "the"

"With the first issue, a letter informed subscribers" - Not clear. Sounds like it's the first issue of Shonen Jump.

You may want to think about refactoring the "History" section a bit. The second paragraph talks about a mascot, and then colors. The third talks about colors, then goes back to discussing mascots. Otherwise, the section looks pretty good. FAs are supposed to be comprehensive, so are you sure you've included everything you can? I see you've got info from a couple of issues of Shojo Beat. Do the other issues have out of universe info? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 07:02, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Response? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 08:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, man, I'm sorry! I totally missed your last note. All done. :) And yep, it was the first issue of Shonen Jump (for Shojo Beat subscribers) but made clear. And yes, I am pretty sure I have everything. I own every issue start to finish and most of the letters from the editor were just random chatty stuff. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 13:13, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

OK, cool. I'll look at the rest soon. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:12, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

What is the reasoning on not including refs for the table in the series section? Your using the primary source, I guess, and adding 30 Shojo Beat cites for it is funky I guess. Also, it's hard to verify that Absolute Boyfriend (for instance) ended in the March 2008 issue, since it's kind of dependant on the following issue, and maybe all following issues. Anyways, I'd like to here your thoughts on the issue. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:57, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

You pretty much nailed it. I started to do it early in the article, but basically would just be citing those specific issues (generally two per series as the endings were always noted in those specific magazines - so one for start, one for ending), which seemed a little redundant. I can go back and add, though, if needed, though to have the page numbers. Would add 28 refs or so :) -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 03:03, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, I would say skip it, but it's good to have the reasoning documented on the FAC page. Other reviewers may have another opinion. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:04, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

"Viz stated that it would continue" - Should it be "will"? Might also be good to put a date on this, in case they don't follow through.

"between the ages of 13 and 19, and more than 84% of readers were at least 16 years old." - These stats are odd, because of the overlap. You might want to use the 12 to 17, and 18 to 34 numbers, since they don't overlap, and cover most of the audience, instead of the over 16 part. I'd keep the "core audience" thing. Maybe even use the words "core audience" and attribute it. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:37, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Fixed would to will and added date (so far, they are still doing so...better than a certain other company ;-) ) . Reworded the ages a bit...how's that? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 22:00, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Looking pretty good. I added the other stat. Remove it if you don't like it. Also, I noticed the article has hyphens instead of fancy dashes. May want to make sure they're all fancy dashes when appropriate. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 22:15, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Fixed, I think? They look exactly the same for me so I can never tell :P -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 22:28, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

You can search for dashes and hyphens using control+f in your browser (usually). The ISSNs have hyphens. No clue as to whether that's correct or not. "under–acknowledged" has a dash, which is incorrect, I think. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 22:54, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not super MOS hound. I beleive dashes are for ranges, like the age ones. Otherwise we use hyphens, for combo words or whatever they're called. I guess ISSNs aren't ranges, so they should probably stay with hyphens. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 22:56, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I believe ISSNs need hyphens, for proper linking and what not. Other than that, I get confused too. I think you're right, on dashes for ranges...so I think they may be fixed now? I tried to find all dashes used in ranges and fixed...be easier if they were easier to visually differentiate too :P -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 02:49, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

I see one dash used to hyphenate a combo word left. Happy hunting. ;-) - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:55, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.