Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Giant eland/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 17:42, 3 November 2012 [1].

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Giant eland

Giant eland (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/Giant eland/archive1

Nominator(s): Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 13:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured article because I have put much effort in providing literature and expanding this article. It is also a GA. I think it has much broad coverage, and agrees with all Wikipedia policies, and believe this could be an FA. Thank you. Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 13:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Image review: File:Western Derby Eland (Taurotragus derbianus derbianus) 3 crop.jpg, File:Western Derby Eland (Taurotragus derbianus derbianus) 4.jpg, File:Western Derby Eland (Taurotragus derbianus derbianus) 5.jpg and File:Western Derby Eland (Taurotragus derbianus derbianus) 1.jpg should have a description in English. File:Taurotragus derbianus gigas.jpg does not describe the content of the image but the file, it should do both. And if it a derivative work of another file, as suggested by the description, that other file (and the author, if it is another) should be mentioned. Same goes for File:Giant eland map.png, which should mention the blank map of Africa used. The other files are fine Cambalachero (talk) 23:02, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. About File:Western Derby Eland (Taurotragus derbianus derbianus) 3 crop.jpg, I have added a caption. But I think the rest images tell about the behavior of the animal, and that everywhere there need not be a description of the location where the image was taken (but tell me if this is important, there is no objection of mine). I have rewrote the caption. I do not know the source map used by File:Giant eland map.png, I just used the image available in Commons.

The descriptions in English that I mentioned are not the captions used in the article, but the image description at the pages of the files themselves. The files I pointed have only descriptions in cesky, add one in English as well. It's not needed to be very complex, things like "A Giant Eland eating a plat" is enough. The original map is needed and mandatory, for copyright compliance, but if you don't know where was it taken from, I will see if I can locate the original map myself. Cambalachero (talk) 21:04, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

As there is a same discussion below about captions, you can look there. Thanks for your offer of locating the base map, I have failed in finding it. Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 13:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I could not locate the base map either. I left a question about it to the uploader, let's hope that he visits Commons and notices it. Cambalachero (talk) 01:19, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Article review: The "Subspecies" subsection is perhaps unneeded, it has a list of just 2 entries. A paragraph in the "Taxonomy" section should be enough. "However, the giant eland is the slightly larger species...", do we need the "however"? The text is not introducing an idea that contradicts or contrasts the one stated before. The trophy head should be placed inside the "uses" section. And according to MOS:IMAGELOCATION, File:Houston Giant Eland.jpg should be at the right, as the Eland is looking to the left (but perhaps that page does not apply for pictures of animals). I did not see any other problems. Cambalachero (talk) 00:41, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Good point. I have removed the 'Subspecies' title. Removed 'however' and fixed sentence. About the trophy head picture, if its placed in 'uses', it pushes the References section to the left, which according to me does not look fine. Same for File:Houston Giant Eland.jpg, if it is placed at the right, it squashes the text. And, however, I do not think it is so significant. --Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 12:51, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

As I noticed in another discussion, we have different screen sizes in our computers. In mine, the change would not be problematic, but if it is at a higher resolution, then we may leave this as it is, so I removed that request. Cambalachero (talk) 21:07, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

So I hope the rest issues you mentioned here are resolved (article review). Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 13:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Support Comments by Jim Looks comprehensive, but a few quibbles Jimfbleak - talk to me?

• All the English-speaking countries in the current and former range use BE, AE spelling is therefore inappropriate (color, behavior, defense (noun), -ize endings)

Fixed those you mentioned (some -ize ending words may be left)

• Taurotragus derbianus, composed of three words: — "derived from"

Fixed.

• Duplicate link detector found overlinking for Tragelaphid, Terminalia, sexual maturity, bongo

Thanks for that help. Did not have that tool, but now I know the links.

• It belongs to the order Artiodactyla, family Bovidae, subfamily Bovinae and genus Taurotragus. — pointless repetition of what the taxobox says and doesn't tell us the important thing, how the genus is related to other bovids

As the section gives taxonomical information, this information is required. The order and subfamily could be removed. And, I could not understand what you said to be the important point.

• Well, if you are going back to the order, you might as well add the class and phylum for completeness. It's too much information, I'd start at bovinae. The info on relationships within the subfamily is actually there, perhaps give an example of a member of the other part of the tribe, like the bongo? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:20, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Actually, class and phylum if mentioned would be pointless, the purpose of the taxobox is to mention the full hierarchy. So we could have here only the family (if you prefer subfamily as well, though I think it is not needed) and genus, these are most relevant. I would not like mentioning subfamily and tribes, these do make the taxonomy confusing and are not much needed. Still, what are your views?

• The species has been differentiated from E. canna and E. triffittae, which parasitize the common eland (T. oryx). It is also parasitized by Carmyerius spatiosus… — last species mentioned was Eimeria derbani,, but I assume these are eland parasites not parasites of E. derbani

No, it is for the giant eland.

• Centric fusion, ungulate — link or gloss

Linked.

• Nigeria is not part of the range in lead, suddenly appears lower down

In "Threats and conservation" section, it is mentioned that the presence of the eland is uncertain in Nigeria, so it is not a part of its range.

• Nor are the four countries listed in the lead as being no longer part of the range. Its presence is uncertain in Guinea-Bissau and Nigeria I took to mean that it may be extinct, are you now saying that there are doubts whether it ever occurred there? Needs clarifying Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:20, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

See the lead. I have tried to write in a bit clarified way there.

• The western giant eland is in a more dangerous situation, being listed as 'Critically Endangered' by the IUCN. Today they — "today it"
• Captions shouldn't include article title, they are assumed to be giant elands unless otherwise stated

So instead of the name "giant eland", would it be fine to use the word "specimen"?

• Pointless though. Just taking a couple of examples: T. d. gigas, a subspecies of T. derbianus, in Cincinnati Zoo = Subspecies T. d. gigas in Cincinnati Zoo If it's not T. derbianus,, wouldn't be on this page. Or Giant eland is a herbivore = Feeding on plant material, I can't tell it's a herbivore from the picture, might eat a rabbit ten minutes later. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:20, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

• The use of the name may be unadvisable but it's not forbidden, we may seek other equal terms or ways to structure the sentence to avoid the name, but if that breaks the accuracy or leads to unneeded wordy or complex captions, then we should simply use the name. For example, we may replace "Distribution of the giant eland" with just "Distribution", but the "Western giant eland" and "Eastern giant eland" color code references of the map should stay as they are. Other suggestions, turn "Giant elands fighting over dominance" to "two males fighting over dominance". As for the picture eating a plant, that criticism is a bit over the top: the giant eland is herbivore, and the photo shows the animal being herbivore. There's no inaccuracy in the photo. Cambalachero (talk) 20:53, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Okay fine, I have made changes in captions, hope they shall be satisfactory. As the picture caption in diet is still being discussed, I haven't disturbed it. See here. Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 13:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

• Why does Robertsonian translocation suddenly become "Rob"⋅?

Changed to Robertsonian translocation

• They form groups among themselves, like the males group, and that of females and juveniles.— clunky They form separate groups of males and of females and juveniles

Reworded as you said

• giant elands are also known to scrape — giant elands scrape

Reworded.

• the delivery ends — we don't have a midwife, "birth" I think

Rewrote it

• You need to be consistent about publisher locations, all or none

Better none

• Don't abbreviate US states, we are not all Americans

• MD? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 16:06, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Oops, left this out! But what is 'abbreviating US states'? Didn't understand the problem

• An apparently English language source has "éléphants" Pouquoi?

It was the original name of the article. Well, I have changed it to "elephants".

• P. Hejcmanova in refs needs italics

Couldn't understand, please clarify.

• Oops, I thought it was a binomial! However, ref 27 should have italics, and ref 34 has "giant's" instead of "giant" I know you have just copied from the sources, but they should be corrected Jimfbleak - talk to me? 16:06, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Done.

• '' Bibliography — these aren't cited texts, should be "Further reading" and this section seems to ignore all the rules for formatting books and italicising genera

These are not of much importance, I think their contents are already in the article. I have removed this section.

Thanks Jimfbleak for your comments. I have answered to them, please reply soon. Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 13:55, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

• OK, just three issues outstanding now Jimfbleak - talk to me? 16:06, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Further comments. I made these edits (a typo, captions, expand MD) please check. The taxonomy section still has an issue, I don't think you need all the taxa, you decide which are relevant. A new quibble is that you appear to have forced image sizes. This is generally discouraged since it overrides user preferences. Also, the sizes seem to be chosen at random, so not even consistency of presentation Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:20, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I think I need help with images. About this issue of image sizes, could you help me more? Also say whether the captions now satisfy you or not. I have rewrote the line in taxonomy as: "Giant eland is placed in the genus Taurotragus of family Bovidae". Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 10:57, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Users can set their preferred image display size in "my preferences". Using parameters like "180px" overrides this, so they see your preference, not theirs. Best to remove the image sizes, especially as the sizes vary from one image to the next. I'm not going to oppose on this, so I've changed to support above, and I'll leave this with you.

I have removed all image sizes, and all looks fine. I think this issue is resolved now. Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 10:13, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

• This is a minor point, but the synonym authorities in the taxobox aren't quite right. Brackets should only be used where the name represents a new combination (usually a species transferred to a different genus). So for example "Boselaphus derbianus (J.E. Gray, 1847)" should be "Boselaphus derbianus J.E. Gray, 1847" as that was the originally published combination for the species derbianus. mgiganteus1 (talk) 02:49, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. Done as you said. Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 10:13, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Removing all the brackets doesn't solve the problem either, since some of the taxon authorities should have brackets. I've corrected the synonym list after this snippet view of Mammal Species of the World, and I've done the same for Common eland. mgiganteus1 (talk) 22:46, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 11:50, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Support (except on prose, which I can not review because I'm not a native English speaker). All my previous concerns have been adressed Cambalachero (talk) 00:36, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Spotchecks

• Text: "Giant elands have comparatively longer legs than the common eland, as well as much brighter white markings on the legs and pasterns"
• Source: Compared to the common eland, the giant eland has longer legs with much brighter black and white flashings on the legs and pasterns."

Fine, added black. Flashing implies bright only, and I do not want to write with the exact words from the source.

• Text: "Giant eland are alert and wary, making them difficult to approach and observe or to hunt"
• Source1: "...giant elands are even more wary than the common eland, so they are very difficult animals to apporach."
• Source2: "The giant eland is a difficult antelope to hunt, because of its furtive habits and nomadic movements".

No need of changes, thanks for showing a grammatical mistake; should be elands in the text.

• Text: "A female can remain in estrus for three days, and the estrous cycle is 21–26 days long"
• Source: "Estrus lasts about 3 days." Can't find any mention of the estrous cycle length.

It is the 'Nowak' reference. I have added it now.

• Text: "According to zoologist Jakob Bro-Jørgensen, the colour of the male's coat can reflect the levels of androgen, a male hormone, which is highest during rutting"
• Source: "Its overall colour is ruddy fawn or chestnut, sometimes with a tint of bluish grey in adult bulls. This depends on the animal’s age and the climatic period or according to Bro-Jørgensen (1997) it may reflect the androgen status reaching its extreme in mature bulls during rutting."

Do we need a change here?

• Text: "They are also immune to some diseases that cattle may succumb to."
• Source: "Domestic cattle also suffer from diseases to which eland and other wild game animals are immune to."

No need of mentioning about wild game animals here.

Sourcing looks okay overall. I did find one problem though. LittleJerry (talk) 22:33, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I have solved your problem now, and have replied to the other comments (I don't know if you point out a problem or not, so I just made it clear). Hope you are satisfied. Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 02:28, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay then, all good. Support. LittleJerry (talk) 03:16, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.