Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/First Test, 1948 Ashes series/archive1

< Wikipedia:Featured article candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Karanacs 01:36, 14 April 2010 [1].

First Test, 1948 Ashes series edit

First Test, 1948 Ashes series (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Nominator(s): YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 05:01, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

First Test of the 1948 Ashes series, a rather slow game marked by England's use of leg theory, and Bradman made his slowest Test century, snared in the leg trap of Alec Bedser, part of a trend. Compton made a famous 184 in England's second innings. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 05:01, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments. No dab links and no dead external links. You have two refs named "sched" and "sco4" with slightly different content. Ucucha 11:59, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done, one redirects to the other YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 02:48, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Ucucha 02:58, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • References
    • Passes W3C validation
    • Properly uses {{cite xxx}} templates; error check passes except for the two duplicate names already noted
    • Uses shortened footnotes with some standard footnotes; not egregious, but cosmetic
    • Cricinfo is used as the publisher in several cites, it should be used as the work; looks like it is now named ESPNcricinfo
      Cricinfo should probably be moved but that is not a FAC issue
    • CricketArchive should be used as work, not publisher; see the documentation for {{Cite web}}
---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:25, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If you mean shortened, I only put in the years if there is a need to dab. For the websites, Work and publisher only differ in italicisation and they aren't italicised as they aren't newpaper/journal titles, so publisher works the same as work with explicit italics to invert it YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 02:48, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Harrias
**While I obviously know what it means, would it be worth putting a note by the first use of cricket scoring notation, ie "and fell to be 74/8" and then "Bill Johnston taking 5/36 for Australia". I've started doing it in some of my articles, as people not that familiar with cricket may not understand what it means, particularly with the two being opposite ways around (though I'm pretty sure in Aus, you'd normally write the score 8/74 in that case anyway?)
    • "with ended with a hostile crowd reaction to Keith Miller," presumably should be "which ended with.."
    • "England's batsman progressed" should be 'batsmen'.
    • "Compton's innings in such conditions was highly praised." sounds a little bit off to me, but it's probably just me. I'll come back to it.
Right, that's the lead, I'm going to have to leave it for the moment. Will get back and read through the rest of it later. Harrias talk 16:21, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Some more then; midway through the first paragraph of Day One; "round-arm action— and Miller" I don't think there should be a space after the emdash, it certainly doesn't look right anyway.
    • "Miller bowled Hutton for three" - I don't want to make this a glossary; but should 'bowled' be wikilinked for clarification?
    • I'm slightly confused as to why you reference the 2nd Test at the end of the second paragraph of Day One. I can't see any logical reason for it?
    • "as he caught the ball head over heels." I'm going to sound silly here; but my head is almost always over my heels, so I don't really understand what you mean?
    • "score at Trent Bridge, surpassing the 112 made by England.." I'm not sure 'surpassing' is the right word to use here; it kind of means the opposite of what you're trying to say.
    • "Barnes had made continuous time-wasting appeals against the light, which forced the authorities to the batting team to one protestation, after which only the umpire could call off play on his own prerogative." I can't read this straight, the piece within the commas makes no sense at all to me I'm afraid!
Again, going to have to take a break. Harrias talk 19:32, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done YellowMonkey (bananabucket!) 05:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The ball flew tot slip where Edrich completed the catch." - 'to', not 'tot'.
    • "to the left arm orthodox spin of Young." - should probably use "left-arm" here.
    • "with seven fours." - Nothing in any MOS specifically covering this, but it always reads oddly to me when they are both written out in full. Purely a matter of personal taste, but I'd prefer to see "with 7 fours." No issue with you leaving as it is though.
    • "from Johnson when he was eight." - "when he was on eight." maybe?
    • "with Hutton and Compton on 63 and 36 apiece." - Think this is an incorrect usage of 'apiece', it should be used when they have the same amount, in a similar fashion to 'each'. Possibly replace it with 'respectively'?
Another break for me. Only so much of this type of reading I can do in one sitting! Harrias talk 10:27, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done YellowMonkey (bananabucket!) 02:15, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • "At 12:35, bad light stopped proceedings, and after two inspections the umpires resumed play." Would be useful to know how long the break was, and thus when play resumed if you have that information.
    • You mention the beamer accidentally bowled by Miller, and that it is illegal, but don't mention what action was taken. I know these days, it'd be a no-ball and he'd just get a warning; was it the same then?
I don't have information on the time of the delay. As for official action over the beamer, there was no hint of a warning, I guess if there was then it would have been mentioned as Lindwall was warned in the other matches for running on the pitch and a threat of being banned from bowling is similarly important to a leg injury. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:31, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • "...that "No..." I know it's a quote, but shouldn't that be a lower-case 'n'? I'm not sure though.
I don't think so
    • "Apart from Hardstaff, none of the batsmen passed 25." If I'm reading it right, I think that should be "..none of the other batsmen.."
Done. Thanks very much again YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:31, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
And that's the whole article from me. No major issues, another lovely article in the Invicibles series. Harrias talk 12:27, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
All prose issues resolved for me, I can't comment on the technical stuff, I'll leave that for other people. Pending anything terribly off with them, you have my full Support Harrias talk 08:06, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:15, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: I have made several minor fixes, typos etc. I have also been listing numerous prose queries, either grammatical, punctuation, cricket-speak or lack of clarity. Either by some telepathic genius, or maybe by stalking my sandboxes, you have anticipated and dealt with most of them, so here is a shorter list (you may have got to some of these by now, too!) As a general point for the future I would strongly recommend that you get a non-cricket person to look at the prose before FAC submission of further cricket articles, particularly match reports which are very hard to do encyclopedically. I would usually be willing to help with this.

  • Prose queries
    • The next morning, Bradman departed for 138, but his vice-captain Lindsay Hassett continued on,... The "on" is redundant.
    • Godfrey Evans, who kept wickets in the last series,... "Kept wicket", surely, and for the uninitiated this should be linked to wicket-keeper.
    • "...but the run rate remained low" followed soon after by "This ended a 64-run stand in 58 minutes". That is not a low run rate
Fair enough and removed, in spite of Fingleton and Wisden saying they were slow YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 04:58, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Fingleton was a grouch, especially about Bradman (who for some reason he detested). Test match run rates in those days tended to be faster in terms of time than now, but were generally slower in terms of runs per 100 balls; they bowled many more overs per day, then. For example, when Australia scored 404 at Headingley, England bowled 110 overs - and that was in less than a day's play. Brianboulton (talk) 16:33, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Fingleton and Bradman were all at loggerheads but the amusing thing is that Bradman hagiographers in Australia also often just lift all their stuff off him including all his quips and turn of phrase etc. Yeah, when I checked the scorecard again, they were bowling at 20 overs per hour that day, and 3 RPO isn't bad for that era and those crummy bats they had. Even if that hour they had only spinners and it seems Yardley was bowling some of it, so even if they had 25 overs that hour YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:38, 31 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • O'Reilly often attacked leg stump during his career and devised a refined plan to ensnare Bradman "Refined" is surely not the best adjective here. O'Reilly's career was long over at this point, so you need to say: "During his career O'Reilly had often attacked leg stump, and had devised..." etc
    • ...while Young had none and used a pure ring field. I've never heard the expression "pure ring field" - what does it mean?)
I just used a descriptive treatment; everyone in a circle. Sometimes a commentator will say "ring field" even though there is a slip, which is a close-catching position. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 04:58, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • As such, Yardley's leg theory tactics failed to coax them into losing their patience. "As such" is unnecessary
    • ...the ball had touched his body and not the willow. Unexplained use of "willow", meaning "bat"
    • Miller returned late in the day Needs explanation. Had Miller been off the field? Otherwise, in what sense was he returning?
    • Compton's fall at 405/7 exposed the English tail "Exposed the English tail" is cricket-speak, needs explanation
    • England made three, omitting Barnett, Hardstaff and Young to a combination of injury and poor form. You don't omit "to", you can omit "through", or "because of", or "due to".
    • Australia's batsmen set a world record by chasing down 404 on the final day to take a series-winning 3–0 lead. You need to make it clear that this was a Test cricket world record, which relates to the 404 winning total, not to the last day or the 3-0 series lead. Thus: "On the final day Australia's batsmen set a world Test cricket record by scoring 404 to win the match, thereby taking a series-winning lead".
    • Australia then completed the series in style... POV (and unnecessary rubbing it in)
Changed. Never thought of myself as a rowdy gloating nationalist YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 04:58, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • The Fifth Test was the last international match, and the tourists only had seven further matches to negotiate in order to fulfil Bradman's aim of going through the tour undefeated. Clarify that this was the last international match of the tour. Also, "only" seven further matches is putting it oddly - that's more than 20% of the whole tour.

Brianboulton (talk) 17:01, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I saw that you had tweaked teh article and looked in your sandbox as I have seen FAC reviews being prepared in there. Thanks YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:31, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Changed all of it. Offer accepted. Many thanks YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 04:58, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Is nothing sacred? Having someone poking about in the sandboxes is like having a stranger going through your sock drawer. Anyhow, the article is looking a lot better now. I'll give it another readthrough in the next couple of days. Brianboulton (talk) 16:33, 30 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nice article. Minor style point - referring to Lindwall's teammates as his "colleagues" read a little strangely to me, and to the extent his colleagues had a heavier workload due to his injury, wouldn't it be better to specify "the other Australian bowlers" or "the rest of the Australian attack" - because that's who we really mean. And a question to which I don't know the answer: the parts of Law 42 dealing with short-pitched bowling were introduced after the Bodyline series. Was the beamer "illegal" by 1948 or was it a later prohibition? I had a look around, and I can't find out.KD Tries Again (talk) 16:02, 31 March 2010 (UTC)KD Tries Again[reply]

Changing it in the lead. A beamer was definitely illegal by then although I don't know when it was changed. YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:28, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments – These are through the majority of the article, including the recaps of the first three days. For the most part, it looks like another winner.

  • "taking five wickets for Australia. Australia...". Little bit of repetition that could be sorted out in the lead.
  • Background: "It was thought that Bradman would play another leg spinner Doug Ring in McCool's place". Bracketing commas around Ring's name would appear to be needed.
  • "Joe Hardstaff junior scored 107 for Nottinghamshire, the only century made against Australia in the lead-up matches". This fact has five citations, which strikes me as extreme overkill. Do none of the books mention this, so the many match recaps wouldn't need to be used?
Of the top of my head, I think sched and/or f77 is enough but I wonder why I put those other ones there YellowMonkey (bananabucket!) 06:16, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Day One: "Both players attacked the bowling but could get their shots through the field for runs." Is there supposed to be a "not" in this sentence? I'm no cricket expert, as I've said many times before, but it doesn't sound like they were scoring much at the time.
  • "They reached stumps at 17 without loss, with Morris on 10 and Barnes on six." That's a total of 16, not 17. Is this some oddity of cricket scoring that I don't know about?
They can get runs from extras; wides no-balls etc infringements by the fielding team YellowMonkey (bananabucket!) 06:16, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Day Three: "Miller then responded to the spate of boundaries by with a series of bouncers." Is "by" supposed to be here as part of the terminology, or is it an excess word? Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Did the rest YellowMonkey (bananabucket!) 06:16, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: first mention of stumps in the lead should be linked (as per this). Having used the word "stumps" to define end of day's play, you need another word to describe the batsman's wicket, as in Day 2 para. 2, Day 3 para 3 and Day 5 para. 2. Otherwise it all gets rather confusing. Brianboulton (talk) 20:59, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done, er I think maybe avoiding the dabbing might be more convenient YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 01:19, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support: There is a thin dividing line between cricket reporting and encyclopedic writing, and it is difficult, particularly with match reports, to keep to the right side of it. I think that this article occasionally strays over to the wrong side, but not egregiously so, and that may just be my opinion. In any event, I am now happy to support. Disclosure: I have done quite a bit of tweaking and adjusting during this FAC, stuff I would have preferred to do in a peer review. I note that with Bedser's recent death, all of the England XI have now passed away; of the Australians, I think only Morris is left. Brianboulton (talk) 20:58, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, only Morris, Loxton and Harvey are left, and the latter two only played in 3-5 and 4-5 respectively. Thanks again for your help YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 01:57, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support, well-written. A few quibbles, though. Could you reword the last part of the background to avoid the awkward "bowlers. The bowlers" part? I realise you've done this consistently in similar articles, but with ice hockey articles I'm used to having statistics at the end. It looks a bit weird to me, with the prose-stats-prose sandwiching, but if it it's consistent and it works for you, that's fine. Maxim(talk) 03:13, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. In cricket, football and swimming, the data sheet is usually up the top YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 07:20, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – After my batch of comments above was taken care of, I just looked through the rest of the article and found only a couple of minor glitches, which I fixed. The article rises to the same high standard as the other similar ones that have come through here. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:34, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/First_Test,_1948_Ashes_series/archive1&oldid=1091635664"