Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Far Eastern Party/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ucucha 03:12, 23 August 2011 [1].
Far Eastern Party edit
Far Eastern Party (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
| Toolbox |
|---|
- Nominator(s): Apterygial talk 04:50, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Most Australians (and many others) will know at least the vague outline of this story: how Douglas Mawson was forced to eat his dogs to survive almost two months in the Antarctic, how the livers of those dogs poisoned his companion, Xavier Mertz. It's an incredible story, an epic of survival, and I hope I’ve done it justice. I’m grateful to Malleus for his copyedit and Brian for his peer review. Dog lovers beware. Apterygial talk 04:50, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Source review - spotchecks not done.
- FN 86: what is this from?
Otherwise, sources check out, though I can't speak to comprehensiveness. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:36, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I've removed that cite, as it wasn't needed anyway. Apterygial talk 00:50, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support: My "nitpick" was in fact a complete peer review, found here. I have one suggestion to make, which relates to a point I raised at that review. I feel that the wider scope of the AAE needs to be indicated in the lead, and I think you should extend the opening sentence thus: "...which investigated the previously unexplored coastal regions of Antarctica west of Cape Adare". Use your own phrasing by all means, but the information needs to be there. Otherwise, this is in all respects a welcome addition to Wikipedia's Antarctic canon, and I look forward to seeing it promoted. Brianboulton (talk) 16:14, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Your help is much appreciated. I've added your suggestion to the lead. Apterygial talk 23:57, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I was invited to look this article over before its peer review, and all the changes I suggested were made. Malleus Fatuorum 00:10, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. Apterygial talk 14:13, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I think it's important to emphasize the one single primary source of the entire article/journey, Mawson's famous account The Home of the Blizzard (1915). Everything we know is from Mawson's account, 80% of the article is simply a re-telling of what Mawson said in his book. When citing, if the information is equally available in both a primary and secondary source, you should cite the primary source (that's what I was taught years ago with my BA History degree). Another way to emphasize is create two sources sections, one for primary source and the other for secondary sources, in place of the current "Sources" section header. It would also be useful to link to the collection at Internet Archive so readers can browse the book online, including any illustrations. (Recommend the linked link since IA adds new editions all the time). Finally, given how central Mawson's book is to this article, it probably needs a Wikipedia article of its own before this article goes FA, including critical reception which is a big part of the post-journey perspective that is missing from the article. For example the book is included in National Geographic's list of 100 all time most important exploration literature, which is an important list in the field of exploration literature, but there is almost no mention of the book in the article - it should be mentioned in the lead section and probably a paragraph devoted to it in the aftermath section. Green Cardamom (talk) 04:32, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- As far as possible, I've avoided citing Blizzard; there are just three cites to it in the entire article, and none of them are controversial. When using Blizzard, it's important to remember its background; when it was written, Mawson was heavily in debt, and the publishing of a book about the expedition was seen as an important was to recoup funds. Hence, he had to make it appealing to readers, and the book as a result glorifies the journey. For this reason, I don't think it stands terribly well as a reliable source. I agree that it should be mentioned in detail somewhere on Wikipedia, but I don't think this article is the place; since the book concerns the expedition as a whole it is better suited to the AAE's article. Where his word is the only perspective, instead of using Blizzard I've quoted extensively from Mawson's diary; it offers a more unvarnished story than Blizzard does (this section is nowhere near 80% of the article. Only Death of Mertz and Alone really rely on Mawson's story; for the rest Ninnis and Mertz's diaries share the telling, and for Background and Aftermath there are innumerable other primary sources). I agree that Blizzard should be linked from the article, so I've added your link from the External links section. I don't agree the book needs a comprehensive article for Far Eastern Party to become an FA; it does not require an understanding of the book to understand the article. Apterygial talk 08:28, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Why can't this be discussed in the article? Your downplaying Mawson's book but it's still the main reason the journey is so well known, the book is famous, it's a central and notable part of the history. It would be like writing an article on Scott and neglecting discussion of his Diaries because they were written to glorify the journey (which they do). What you just wrote here is important, a discussion about the sources. As you can tell I think Mawson's book is very important because it is so well known as exploration literature, and without a Wikipedia presence in some form or another, this FA would be incomplete. Green Cardamom (talk) 15:08, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree with you that the book is important in itself, and that it deserves a place on Wikipedia, but I don't think this is the place. Rest assured that when I get around to working on Australasian Antarctic Expedition it will be included there; as it stands the Aftermath section section is big enough. You are welcome to create the article on the book, however, and I'll happily link to it from this article. Apterygial talk 11:16, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah I may actually do that. But in terms of this FA candidate, can we at least add one or two sentences about the book? The book isn't mentioned at all in the article (outside as a reference), yet the book is the most famous work of literature about the expedition! Remember that Wikipedia articles are stand-alone, they are meant to be read as individual pieces and not rely on other articles to be complete. This is because we have no idea how end-users will use content, for example someone may create a CD with only FA's and nothing else and distribute it to poor villages with no Internet connection. Or they may be printed and bound in books. We don't assume that content is being read via the Media Wiki interface. Green Cardamom (talk) 20:35, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I've discussed with Green Cardamom separately on some wording to incorporate a mention of The Home of the Blizzard into the text, and have added it in. Apterygial talk 12:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. Green Cardamom (talk) 15:04, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I've discussed with Green Cardamom separately on some wording to incorporate a mention of The Home of the Blizzard into the text, and have added it in. Apterygial talk 12:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah I may actually do that. But in terms of this FA candidate, can we at least add one or two sentences about the book? The book isn't mentioned at all in the article (outside as a reference), yet the book is the most famous work of literature about the expedition! Remember that Wikipedia articles are stand-alone, they are meant to be read as individual pieces and not rely on other articles to be complete. This is because we have no idea how end-users will use content, for example someone may create a CD with only FA's and nothing else and distribute it to poor villages with no Internet connection. Or they may be printed and bound in books. We don't assume that content is being read via the Media Wiki interface. Green Cardamom (talk) 20:35, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree with you that the book is important in itself, and that it deserves a place on Wikipedia, but I don't think this is the place. Rest assured that when I get around to working on Australasian Antarctic Expedition it will be included there; as it stands the Aftermath section section is big enough. You are welcome to create the article on the book, however, and I'll happily link to it from this article. Apterygial talk 11:16, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Why can't this be discussed in the article? Your downplaying Mawson's book but it's still the main reason the journey is so well known, the book is famous, it's a central and notable part of the history. It would be like writing an article on Scott and neglecting discussion of his Diaries because they were written to glorify the journey (which they do). What you just wrote here is important, a discussion about the sources. As you can tell I think Mawson's book is very important because it is so well known as exploration literature, and without a Wikipedia presence in some form or another, this FA would be incomplete. Green Cardamom (talk) 15:08, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Images are fine, licensing checks out. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:48, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Support – Read through the whole article, and it is an excellent piece of work on a compelling event. Well done. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 15:50, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. Apterygial talk 01:29, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.