Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Denis Law/archive1

Denis Law

Self-nom (I've written around 90% of it) about one of British football (soccer)'s most notable players. It's been peer reviewed and I think it meets all the criteria (I could rename Notes to References if anyone objects but other FAs haven't). It would really be improved with a picture, but with Law's career having started in the mid-fifties non-copyrighted pictures of him are not easy to find. I might be able to get some screenshots or a book cover image as fair use though - comments about whether this would be good or bad are welcome.

If you have any objections, please detail them as clearly as you can and I'll try and sort them out while the article's still on FAC, and leave you a message once it's done. CTOAGN 12:36, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

• Object Really needs pictures tbh, European Footballer Of The Year template should be at bottom, Notes are too small, no reference section. All should be easily fixable tho. (unsigned comment by PopUpPirate 18:25, August 11, 2005)

Support now, great work --PopUpPirate 11:57, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

I've renamed the Notes section. I've seen the page on a few different systems and strongly prefer the smaller text, but it did look a bit too small with some browser/screen setting combinations. I've increased it from 75 to 85 percent of normal size – does that look better? I really don't like long References sections at full size – they just seem to get in the way.

With regard to the EFOTY template, I think the most logical place for it is at the end of the article text and before the reference sections, as most readers won't scroll down to the bottom and will just miss it. Do you strongly disagree?

I'll see what I can do about images. I'll be able to scan in a book cover at the very least, although whether I can remove the text around the image seems to be a grey area. I don't think I can use the link that you left on my user page but I'll look into it. CTOAGN 22:42, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Life's too short to strongly disagree :D , but personally I'd put it right at the bottom, thats generally where navigation goes, just above categories. The image I sent you I personally reckon would be fine, it's deffo promo? Any probs with removing text around an image, email it us and I'll give it a crack on photoshop! --PopUpPirate 23:02, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

While using, say, a cover of his autobiography (or some other book) to illustrate is probably kosher under fair use, I don't think fair use allows retouching it to remove the text... you'd have to leave it as is. IANA copyright lawyer, though. Qwghlm 10:08, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

I've uploaded some screenshots under fair use. I'll have a go at improving the quality of them tomorrow. I think that's everything now. CTOAGN 01:45, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

• Conditional object Apart from the mention of the '74 World Cup there isn't much on his international career (debut etc.), which is odd given he's Scotland's joint-top goalscorer. If you add some on that, and sort out the fixable minor problems outlined above (picture excepted), I think it's good to go. Qwghlm 12:02, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

His international career was less notable than you'd think, as Scotland didn't qualify for the World Cup from '62-'70, so it's not all that interesting. His latest autobiography just goes on about how he was disappointed not to qualify for each one. I've put the date of his debut in though. All the points raised by Pop Up Pirate have been dealt with. CTOAGN 01:45, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

International careers can still be interesting even if you don't qualify for a World Cup... in particular I'd like to see a reference to Scotland's 3-2 defeat of England in 1967, which Law scored in (what were his recollections? He must have been pleased with that). Qwghlm 09:04, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

I added some stuff on the match you mentioned and the 9–3 defeat he played in, and mentioned that the match gave him more satisfaction than winning the league. There isn't much on his emotions during the match in his book - there's stuff on how he felt the Scots treated beating England as being more important than qualifying for tournaments but nothing that would really belong in an encyclopedia article. CTOAGN 15:26, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

OK, that looks good enough to me - change my vote to Support. Qwghlm 18:59, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

• Object. All the images are under a license of "fair use". Since Wikipedia is a free content encyclopedia, the use of fair use images should be kept to a minimum. Image:Denis Law Manchester City.JPG and Image:Denis Law FA Cup Final 1963.JPG show pretty much the same thing, so one of them should be removed. Whichever two images remain need to have a fair use rationale included; see Wikipedia:Image description page#Fair use rationale for what should be included, and the image description pages at Sunset Boulevard (film) for a good example of how to do so. Also, if possible, try contacting Denis Law for an image under GFDL or a Creative Commons license. --Carnildo 06:37, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

To be fair, in the first picture Law is playing for Manchester City (in a blue shirt), while in the second he is playing for Manchester United (in red). I think they're sufficiently different to both warrant inclusion. Qwghlm 09:04, August 16, 2005 (UTC)