Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Art Ross/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 14:44, 28 September 2010 [1].

Art Ross edit

Nominator(s): Kaiser matias (talk) 21:03, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The fourth article of my 1945 Hockey Hall of Fame class to come through here, Art Ross was a major part of hockey for nearly half a century. Player, coach, manager, referee, innovator, he did everything and has a trophy named after him. The article went through GA back in June, and after some delay it should be ready for a final promotion. Kaiser matias (talk) 21:03, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments—no dab links, all external links check out. Imzadi 1979 → 21:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

image review All images have appropriate licences Jimfbleak - talk to me? 09:58, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources comments: A couple of minor format nitpiks re refs 6 and 7: these should be formatted so that they reflect the relevant entries in the bibliography. Otherwise sources OK, no other issues. Brianboulton (talk) 18:04, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I took a look at those two references and don't see anything really wrong with them. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:20, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing "wrong" with them as references – and I made a mistake, I meant 6 and 8, not 6 and 7. These are format nitpicks. Refs are normally by author; the "author" of ref 6 is Associated Press (1938), so for consistency I would have expected the ref to read "Associated Press (1938), p. 13". Likewise, the "author" of ref 8 is "Canadian Press", not "Lewiston", which isn't even the name of the journal. These are relatively simple fixes. Brianboulton (talk) 23:36, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I get what you mean. Understandable and rather obvious thing. I made the changes. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:33, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Is there any information on his tactics as a coach at all? what kind of style and formation? YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 05:38, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good question. I'll take a look to see if there is anything I can find. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:26, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alright so I spent the last few days looking, and have found that there is little to no information about any type of style used. Writing about coaching stategy from the early days of hockey is severly lacking, as there is nothing even written in contemporary news reports. Kaiser matias (talk) 20:32, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I promised a review a while ago and never got around to it... I'll try to do that soon. But, a question of historical accuracy that has bugged me about Dan Bain also: Was Ross (and Bain) actually a 1945 inductee into the Hockey Hall of Fame? The HHOF's website today says they were, but articles from the time do not mention Ross as being among the initial inductees (Toronto Daily Star). Rather, both Ross and Bain were said to have been elected in 1949 according to multiple news articles (Ottawa Citizen). Unfortunately, the HHOF contradicts itself as I've seen books of theirs saying both 1945 and 1949 - and that 9, 11 and 12 members were in the first class. Any ideas on what the most trustworthy source would be? Reso lute 17:02, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It probably has something to do with the change over from the International Hockey Hall of Fame. On the IHHOF web site they claim that there is 4 different HOF classes and if you click on the links for the players it gives the corresponding years, but if you look at the pic of the players plaques they say differently. Bain says 1945 next to year but in the pic' it says "selected 1950", Ross, like Bain says 1945 on their info box but the pic' shows "selected - 1946" etc. Not that this helps any it was something I noticed. As for the most trustworthy I would think that something actually from the HHOF would be the thing to go with--Mo Rock...Monstrous (talk) 18:45, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That is pretty much it there. I noticed the same thing when I was expanding the article, so sent an email off to Phil Pritchard, curator of the Hockey Hall of Fame. He said that the IHHOF was the original HHOF, and incducted the players in a couple different years. When the HHOF in its present form was founded in 1960 they retroactively inducted players, and the first 12 players were all listed as being inducted in 1945, even though they technically had not been. The catch to this though is I am not sure if there is any source for this other than a now-deleted email. Kaiser matias (talk) 01:09, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

Personal life: Comma needed after "a suburb of Boston", I believe. This is for the first time this appears; a second use later in the section has the comma afterwards.
Playing career: "In November 1910 the NHL decided to impose a salary cap...". I think you got the leagues mixed up here.
A couple teams—the Canadiens and Bulldogs—are overlinked towards the end of the section. Also, the Maple Leafs are overlinked in the following section
One thing I see several times in the article is a comma following a month, such as in "when Ross retired at the end of October, 1964." Those don't really need to be there, though I suppose it isn't the biggest issue. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 14:29, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed all these. Kaiser matias (talk) 20:32, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments
I have a few comments before I could support.
"he was one of the first to carry the puck up the ice" - unclear to a non-hockey reader, also doesn't explain further thoughout the article.
It's better to create an early life section, and a personal life section in the end if you could expand the article some more.
Ross also excelled in baseball, football, lacrosse, and motorcycle racing. Source?
Though he did not score a goal, Ross was an important part of the Thistles; he started many plays, and had the Montreal crowd cheer for him several times. - choppy prose.
Several redlinks of amateur teams that are unlikely to be created, or are easy dyks, decide which ones should be delinked and which one you could create and article for.
For the 1908–09 season Ross had demanded a salary of $1,600, though had to settle for $1,200; the average salary of hockey players at the time was $600, while most people earned $50 per month? Source and you don't need to say most people earned 50 dollars a month.
Ross knocked out Eddie Oatman in a fight. What caused the fight? I understand if there is no explaination in your source. Same with McGiffen.
However, the NHL recorded two additional games the Wanderers had scheduled as defaulted losses for the team, even though the games were not played. Why?
adopted new methods in training camp that emphasized physical training. What kind of methods.
Ross knew many people associated with hockey throughout Canada and the United States, and utilised them to help build the team. How he utilised them?
the second longest of its kind, third longest of its kind, can you reword?
There were rumours that Patrick, a Methodist, was drinking heavily and being too friendly with the Bruins players. Source, how friendly?
With these players the Bruins finished first in the league in 1937–38 and Ross was named as the second best coach in the league, selected for the end of season All-Star Second Team. Run-on
Why he released Weiland of his duties? Was he a bad coach, etc?
Why did he hire and want to fire Boucher, no information between the 1945 and 1950 seasons other than hiring Boucher.
NHL adopted a new style of goal net that Ross created, why it was deused after 1984.

I'll understand if you don't have answers to some of the comments I had, I'll support once everything is fixed, or why it can't be fixed. Thanks Secret ^account 22:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I addressed everything to what I see as best; if it can be improved, do tell. As for the few concerns about sources, all of them are covered in the following sentences; I felt it was redundant to include the same reference in consecutive sentences when one is sufficient. Kaiser matias (talk) 02:53, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough Support Secret ^account 03:31, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.