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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Aang/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 00:05, 24 March 2008.

Aang

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Self-nominator: This article has come a long way, through four GA nominations and three peer reviews. Finally, the article has become greater than I have every imagined it to be. I think this article has what it takes to be FA. Parent5446(Murder me for my actions) 02:10, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments
Issues resolved, Ealdgyth - Talk 15:21, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments from User:Ealdgyth-Ealdgyth
    • First, {{citation}} and any of the {{cite X}} templates don't play well together. Switch to one or the other to avoid issues.
      • Sorry to ask, but what exactly do you mean? Do you mean mixing the actual citations in the footnotes?
        • Be glad to clarify. When I clicked on the article to edit it, down at the bottom it shows you a list of templates in use. You're using the {{citation}} template along with the {{cite encyclopedia}}, {{cite web}}, {{cite episode}}, and {{cite interview}} templates. Unfortunately, if you use the first one (citation) with any of the others, sometimes weirdnessess happen with the formatting, or so Sandy has informed me. Since she's the MOS queen, I take her word for it. Probably should just change the ones using (citation) to one of the basic (cite) ones, but you could go the other way also (Change them all to citation) Did that explain it a bit better? Ealdgyth - Talk 03:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not seeing how http://toyfair06.asmzine.com/mattel/mattel-avatar/index5.html references that there are video games (toys and figurines yes, although I'm not convinced this is the most reliable site to use)
      • That is actually because the link to the site changed as the site updated. I will find a permanent link for it.
        • I changed the main reference to a link to the game itself and also added a link to the IGN report on it.
    • http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-24-2006/0004266998&EDATE=looks like it's hosted on a press release site. How reliable is this site?
      • Well, the source is reliable since that page is actually an exact copy of [1]. If you want, I could change the site to source directly to the main press release article. Please reply if that would be better.
        • I'd think the direct link, if possible, would be better, but I've since been informed that PRnewswire is good (I've never run across it before, hey, I edit medieval bishops, they didn't have press releases!)
          • I put the direct link in anyway.
    • http://www.musogato.com/avatar/magazine/avatarmag1_scan09.jpg seems to be hosted on an fansite. Likewise http://www.musogato.com/avatar/magazine/avatarmag1_scan08.jpg
      • The site is a fansite but the images are actual scans of Nickelodeon magazines. I know this because my brother actually has these magazines from a while ago. I was not exactly sure how to cite a magazine so I cited the scans of it since it would provide more information.
        • Template:Cite journal is the template you use for magazines. Ealdgyth - Talk 03:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • Please see WP:COPYRIGHT; we should never knowingly link to a copyright violation. A scan of a Nick magazine on a fansite is likely to be a copyright violation. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:33, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • I put in cite journal templates, excluding the URL, so they should be cited correctly now.
    • "The Earth King" reference (current number 40) is missing publisher information
      • Sorry about that. The reason is that the WikiProject Avatar: The Last Airbender just recently started instituting new episode citation templates that have all the publishing information and that ref must not have been changed over. I will change it as soon as possible.
        • Fixed it.
    • Not sure that the IMDB is the best place to cite for plot summaries.
      • Sorry, I put that in recently too, I'll find a better plot summary, though they all generally say the same thing.
        • Found a better plot summary on Nickelodeon Asia's website.
    • http://tv.ign.com/articles/818/818284p1.html needs publisher information (in this case IGN)
      • I will fix it as soon as possible.
        • Fixed.
    • http://avatar.wikia.com/index.php?title=Escape_from_the_Spirit_World&oldid=12044 is to a wiki, which isn't a reliable source
      • Trust me, I guaranteed myself this argument was going to come up. The reason the reference is there is because I referenced the game itself and was not sure whether that was enough. If you think that a ref to the game itself is enough, or whether I should look for a better source, please tell me.
        • In game articles, I see them reference the game manual. You could probably also reference the game itself (not sure if there is a template for that… once again, medieval bishops didn't do video games…) Ealdgyth - Talk 03:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • I removed the Wiki source and left the ref to the game. It should be enough.
    • http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/episode_guide.php?ep=007 does not match with the given publisher information. If you're meaning to refernce the unaired pilot itself, you probably shouldn't link to this site (And how you can reference an unaired show….) Several other episodes are linked to this site but list the publisher as Nickelodeon. I think it's best that the links be clearly stated to show that they are to a fan site, and keep that fan site separate from the actual citations for the episodes.
      • That is probably just a mistake on my part considering I added that reference recently, I shall attempt to fix it immediately.
        • I removed the URL. We can cite the unaired pilot because I believe it was released on DVD and through other medias, it was just not aired on TV.
          • I removed the URLs from every ref. Now it is not linking to the fansite but just referencing the episode.
            • I think I still want to see where the unaired pilot was on the DVD or in some sort of published form. The other issue is fixed though. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:20, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
              • Got it. I added the reference to the DVD it was on (Complete Season One Box Set). Is everything OK now?
    • http://www.animationinsider.net/index.php is this a reliable site?
      • I believe it is. Either way, the reference to it is a review, not actual info on the show. Therefore, I do not think a review or criticism of a show can be exactly defined as "unreliable". Either way, the site seems reliable to me. If you have proof otherwise, please bring it forth.
        • Hm. Missed that it was a review. Where you quote that source the second time, give the name of the review up in the text? Always better to directly name the person giving the quote. Ealdgyth - Talk 03:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • I added the reviewers name to text.
            • Could you please clarify what further problem there is?
    • http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/ looks like a fan site. Why is it a reliable source?
      • It is a fansite but the site does hold interviews with certain people from the show and other information that is reliable. In other words, the site is part fansite, part third-party reliable source.
Just a heads up, but generally it's a no-no at FAC to strike another editor's comments. It's different at GAN, I know. I know you meant that you'd done them, and I'm not trying to yell at you, but some folks would get upset about you striking their comments. I'll double check that they are taken care of and then move them under resolved if they are. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:15, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've moved the ones that I felt were dealt with, ones still remaining below. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:20, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • http://www.icv2.com/index.html is this a reliable site for news? That it is put out by Griepp is somewhat reassuring… sorta. (Full disclosure, years ago I sold comic books and dealt with Griepp's company Capital City)
      • I have no specific proof that the site is reliable, but I have used the site for news and other sorts of stuff for a while and it has not failed yet. I will try and find a better source if you like.
        • I think, given what it's sourcing, it's okay, but if you find better it's always better to use the best you can. If it was a BLP article, things might be different, of course. Ealdgyth - Talk 03:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • I'll see what I can do, but if not, everything should still be OK.
            • Do not worry, I changed the ref to cite the cine-manga itself (using cite book) with a URL to Tokyopop's product page for it (Tokyopop is the publisher).
all web links checked out fine with the little tool at the top. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:40, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I will respond to the problems above within the next couple of hours. I cannot do it now as I have no time. I have requested some comments so please reply, and thank you for your comments. Parent5446(Murder me for my actions) 03:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If I'm still unclear, please drop a note. Ealdgyth - Talk 03:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved concerns ЭLСОВВОLД talk 23:07, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Numerous criterion three issues:
    • Image:Aang-baby.jpg is not low resolution (required per WP:NFCC#3B) or minimal extent (lower section containing “Nick” logo should not be included – also per 3B) both of which are perhaps moot given that a baby image doesn’t appear to significantly contribute to our understanding (required per NFCC#8).
      • I removed the image as it was not contributing to the article signficantly.
    • Image:Avatar-book_1_Chapters_1_And_2_0003.jpg: per NFCC#3A, “As few non-free content uses as possible are included in each article and in Wikipedia as a whole”. This image is entirely redundant to Image:Aang and Momo-Fire Background.jpg, as head is perfectly detailed and visible in both. Also fails NFCC#8 (no significant contribution to understanding above what is already provided by “fire background image”).
      • You are right, this image is redundant. I removed it.
    • Image:Reincarnations lowRes.png is not low resolution (required per NFCC#3B). ЭLСОВВОLД talk 22:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I don't think an article that only has 100 words on reception for a 3000 word article is really comprehensive (FA? 1b) Will (talk) 02:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Would you care to explain how we could get any more comprehensive when every other review on the Internet says the same exact thing? Parent5446(Murder me for my actions) 02:47, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's the proportion of real-life to fiction. Most fiction FAs have a proportion of 70-30 or 60-40 to real life (i.e. creation and reception), whereas Aang is about 70-30 (or even 80-20) in the other direction. Will (talk) 13:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Where in the FA criteria does it say there must be a certain proportion of real life to fiction?
    • Nowhere explicitly, but the difference shows that such an article isn't really comprehensive. Will (talk) 22:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • All possible sources about out of universe description have been added. You are welcome to look for more, but, as I view things, this is not a valid oppose since it is as comprensive as possible. The Placebo Effect (talk)`
    • It should be noted that User:Sceptre (signing as "Will") has denoted on his user page that he is on vacation, thus he may not respond to comments on this page immediately. Parent5446(Murder me for my actions) 13:45, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think Sceptre/Will was actually refering to WP:UNDUE. With so little real-world content and so much fictional content, the article is either not comprehensive in regards to real-world information, or the plot detail is excessive per a MOS (WP:WAF). There are a few instances where the lack of real-world sources leads to originial research through synthesis of primary sources. Example: "Aang's character possesses a deep respect for life and freedom, as evidenced by his vegetarianism[13] and his reluctance to fight.[30]" - Who says he has a deep respect for life and freedom? Who says he has a reluctance to fight? Who says that even if the "his vegetarianism and his reluctance to fight" are obviously true (I haven't watched the show), that they support the first claim? This article is fine as a Good Article, but the focus on so much in-universe content really hinders it becoming FA (at this point). – sgeureka t•c 14:32, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm afraid I tried to look for more out-of-universe information but could not find any. However, I toned down the plot summary for the show and completely removed the plot summary for the game as it was not necessary. Hope it is better. Parent5446(Murder me for my actions) 20:14, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose—1a, 2a, 1c. The prose is full of redundant wording and other serious problems. Take the opening para:

    Aang is a fictional character and the main protagonist for Nickelodeon's animated television series Avatar: The Last Airbender. The character was created by Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko and is voiced by Zach Tyler Eisen. Aang, being the central characer for the program, has appeared in every episode of the show, including the pilot episode that has never been aired.[1] In addition to the series, Aang has also appeared in a variety of other media, such as trading cards,[2] video games,[3][4] T-shirts,[5] and web comics.[6]

      • Comma after "DiMartino" probably better (and ... and).
      • Was ... is?
      • Remove "being"; you might consider using dashes here: "Aang – the central characer for the program – has appeared in every episode of the show, including the pilot episode that has never been aired." BTW, is this a smooth integration of two seemingly different ideas into the one sentence? Looks awkward. And at the top he's announced as "a fictional character"; only now are we told that he's "the central character". Poorly organised.
      • Oh the additives: In addition ... also. Remove "a variety of", since you trot out the variety of them in your list, anyway.
    • And further:
      • Do we really need "In the show,"?
      • Wouldn't mind a brief phrase after "Airbender", explaining that it's a super-race of aliens that regularly attack Earth, or something like that. One problem I have with such articles is their assumption of insider knowledge. "A supercentenarian at the incarnation age of 112"—huh? Am I missing something? The lead is meant to prepare us for the article, to paint the bigger picture, to lead us into the topic.
      • "that he must settle either along or with others"—along others? Um ....
      • and that he "seems to bring comfort in the most dangerous or hostile situations."[15]—See MOS on punctuation in quotations.
    • This is way below standard. The whole text is urgently in need of serious, time-consuming copy-editing by someone ELSE. Please don't just correct these random examples.
    • The verifications need auditing for accuracy, reliability, and formatting/MOS (I see ellipsis dots without the proper spacing, for example).
    • Ref 2 is used at the top in support of the claim that the game is in "trading card" form. But the web-page is only a commercial prediction of future publicaiton in that form: "CARLSBAD, Ca. – November 17, 2005 –Nickelodeon’s latest hit animated series, “Avatar: The Last Airbender,” makes its trading card game debut in January ...".
    • Ref 3 et al. require our readers to log in with a "nickname" and password, something that many will be chary about doing. Is this permissable?
      • Ref 8: Pittarese, Frank (2006). "Nation Exploration". Nickelodeon Magazine (Winter 2006): 2." Is that a page number at the end?

    Tony (talk) 04:05, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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