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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1956 Winter Olympics/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 01:00, 4 April 2010 [1].

1956 Winter Olympics edit

1956 Winter Olympics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Nominator(s): User:H1nkles citius altius fortius 23:38, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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I am nominating this for featured article because the article has been greatly improved after undergoing reviews at WP:GAC, WP:PR, and WP:OLY. This is an important FA nomination as I hope to establish a template for other YEAR at winter/summer Olympic Games should this article pass. Special appreciation must be extended to Parutakupiu who supplied sizeable chunks of information for this article. While the 1956 Winter Olympic Games do not garner as much attention as many of the other celebrations of the Games, you will soon see that these Games were very pioneering and set the foundation for the next fifty years of Winter Olympics. Thank you in advance for your reviews. User:H1nkles citius altius fortius 23:38, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments Oppose. Images lack alt text, as required by featured article criterion 3. See WP:ALT for advice on alt text. I will strike this oppose when this issue has been resolved. There are no links to disambiguation pages and no dead external links–good! Ucucha 23:50, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose until the alt links are fixed, other than that it's good to go. Dincher (talk) 01:13, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    • Support alt text in place, striking oppose now supporting. Dincher (talk) 17:42, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alt text has been added to all images. Thank you, I learn something new everytime I do this. Please advise if it is acceptable. User:H1nkles citius altius fortius 05:26, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks. I made some further edits, and it's fine now. For future articles, what is often the most important part of WP:ALT is WP:ALT#Verifiability: generally, all aspects of the alt text need to verifiable from the image alone to a non-expert. When I see File:1956 Winter Olympics opening ceremonies.jpg, it's not immediately obvious (although very likely) that the flags are those of the participating nations. Most of my other edits were made for the same reasons. Also, chance details such as whether a photo is black or white generally don't need to be mentioned. Ucucha 14:01, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Much appreciated, and also thanks for the guidance. Is there anything from your perspective that I need to do further regarding the alt text? User:H1nkles citius altius fortius 15:49, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, it's fine, as I said. You're welcome. Ucucha 15:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments -
  • Magazine titles in the references should be in italics, I noted Popular Science Monthly but there may be others.
  • What makes http://www.skateresults.com/skaters/248 a reliable source?
  • You use the one link the in the "external links section" as a source, so it should not be in the external links, which is for links that are NOT used as sources.
Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:08, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I italicized the magazine, switched the ref to a more credible source and removed the external links section. I'm not sure if there should be a header for the categories and footer information though. Any thoughts on that? H1nkles citius altius fortius 17:11, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you remove the external links section, it'll be fine. I have a number of articles that don't have external links and the cats and footer info are just fine. What'd you replace Skate results with? Ealdgyth - Talk 17:14, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe that my interpretation of WP:EL#Official links is slightly different than (I think) Ealdgyth above. The external links section of all of the Olympics main articles contains at least a link to the official site (which is what this link is), and I believe that this is within the guidelines even if the official site is used as a reference or citation (which it usually is), in order to highlight it to the user for further reference. If we need to call it "Official Site" to meet the requirements of the editor above (the guidelines on this aren't clear to me), we should be able to do that across the board with a change in the template that formats these links. Donlammers (talk) 18:05, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image copyright review: 7 images. Following issues:
The logo for each olympics is placed in the infobox for identification, just as a corporate logo is placed in infoboxes in corporate articles. From the file information: "The image is placed in the infobox at the top of the article discussing 1956 Winter Olympics, a subject of public interest. The significance of the logo is to help the reader identify the organization, assure the readers that they have reached the right article containing critical commentary about the organization, and illustrate the organization's intended branding message in a way that words alone could not convey." I'm not exactly sure what else is expected here. Donlammers (talk) 15:06, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Something else to consider is other FA's that have logos in the article, Idlewild and Soak Zone, Rosetta@home, Olympic Games, and Dartmouth College are examples. If there is something I can add to the licensing to make sure it is compliant with WP standards please advise and I'll happily add it. H1nkles citius altius fortius 03:07, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I never really liked the image so this gives me a great excuse to change it out. I'll have it fixed by Monday. Thanks for the review. H1nkles citius altius fortius 03:07, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Others seem fine; oppose pending resolution of the above. Stifle (talk) 13:43, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have replaced the Albright image, I hope this meets the standards and that your concerns have been addressed. Please advise if there are unresolved issues with the images. H1nkles citius altius fortius 15:43, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment -
  • It would be nice to say which three Alpine events existed (different in 1956 than now) so readers don't have to click out of the article for the information. I'd suggest adding slalom, giant slalom and downhill to the Alpine section. Also the women who received gold medals in the Alpine events deserve mention. I haven't been through the entire article and subarticles, but that jumped out at me. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 12:13, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree it does seem a bit sparse. I've added some more info on the races and then outlined the women's gold medalists. I can add the silver and bronze medalists if you feel that would be appropriate. H1nkles citius altius fortius 16:10, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks better. As soon as I get a chance I'll read the entire article and the subarticles if necessary, but at the moment my impression is there's more room for development in the main article. Will post back soon. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 16:34, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yeah that's a tricky one, I can always add more silver and bronze medalist information along with interesting tid bits about the competition but I feel like I have to watch over-detailing the main article. The events section is about the only place I can add more meaningful information, the sources for the organisation and venues sections quickly fall off into construction detail that would bore the reader to tears. I'd really have to stretch to find more stuff on politics since most of the sources give much more emphasis to the political drama of the 1956 Summer Games. There really isn't much more to say about the host city selection. So it comes back to the events. I'll expand the bobsleigh section since it seems rather light compared to the rest. I've already added to the skating section. Let me know what you think and if more should be added I'll be happy to work on it. H1nkles citius altius fortius 16:48, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You might want to use the nice table at the bottom as an organizational tool. You have 8 sports in the table, but only 4 paragraphs devoted to sports. Would it be too sparse to separate figure skating from speed skating and alpine skiing from nordic skiing for example? Also, I like the new skating image, but the description is for a nordic event - that needs to be looked at. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:03, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmm interesting suggestion, hadn't thought of it. I'll play around with it and see if there's enough to make separate paragraphs. I'm confused on the image comment, I have the caption, "Pairs figure skaters at 1956 Olympics" under the figure skating image and the caption, "Sverre Stenersen on his way to victory in the nordic combined event" under the nordic combined skiing image, which is immediately below the figure skating image. It looks ok to me, am I missing something obvious (wouldn't be the first time)? H1nkles citius altius fortius 17:13, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additional comments -
  • It seems odd to use conversions for the races. A 1500 meter race isn't normally referred to as a 4900 ft. race. Unless I'm wrong, and somebody objects, I'd consider deleting the conversions.
  • There is no clear policy as I can tell for conversion of race distances, I errored on the side of inclusion. I'll be glad to remove them as I agree it does look odd.
  • I'd prefer to see the list in the venues section as prose as the paragraphs are fairly chunky for a list.

  • I thought I had gotten all of the NBSPs but I'll roll through it again to catch any that I apparently missed.
  • I've gone through with a light copy-edit. I'll re-read again later to see whether anything jumps out at me.
  • I like this article, think it's important given the recent Winter Olympics, and would support with the above changes and as much possible development given the sources available. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 20:50, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok I've broken the events section into separate sub-sections based on the calendar of events later in the article. The only event I did not give its own sub-section was Nordic combined, as there isn't much on this event. I'll work a little harder on it but it was only one race so it's hard to generate enough information for its own sub-section. I'll keep tinkering though. I also took out the bullets in the venue section and made each one its own paragraph of prose rather than a list. I removed the conversion template for all races and checked for non-breaking spaces. Let me know if there's anything unattended to or anything else you'd like me to take a look at. H1nkles citius altius fortius 22:20, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've added enough info to the nordic combined event to create its own sub-heading. This should complete the suggestions made by Truthkeeper88. Please advise if I've missed the mark. H1nkles citius altius fortius 15:10, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support : looks good with the changes. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:07, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:27, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Quick drive-by comment – Cortina, which had originally been awarded the 1944 Winter Olympics, beat out three other cities for the right to host the 1956 Games seems like a fairly obvious statement without providing additional information. Which three cities? –Juliancolton | Talk 13:14, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good question, my only answer would be for consistency between all of the YEAR at Summer/Winter Olympics articles. Later Games articles (2010 Winter Olympics for example) when there were more sports and more medals awarded, have the same top-ten medal-winning countries in a table and then a separate article for all the medal-winning countries. Would you suggest I break down the medal table in the 1956 Winter Olympics article to the top five countries? Would that help give some weight to having the medal table article? I don't think I could remove the 1956 Winter Olympics medal table article without getting community consensus. H1nkles citius altius fortius 17:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • That might work too, but personally I'd suggest simply merging the table article. Standalone lists should really only be used if the content is unable to fit into its parent article for whatever reason, and obviously two additional entries won't cause the article to be too long or unwieldy. That said, since this is a fairly widespread issue, I won't let it prevent me from supporting based on the article's prose and apparent completeness. Nicely done. –Juliancolton | Talk 17:27, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much for your support, I'll bring your comments to the Olympics project and see what they say. H1nkles citius altius fortius 18:46, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. Thanks for your help. :) –Juliancolton | Talk 20:03, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – I'm honestly surprised that this was the position I would up in, since there has been so much support already. However, when I went over the article with a fine-toothed comb I found quite a few prose glitches and such.

  • "The 1956 Winter Olympics ... was a winter multi-sport event". A couple sentences later in the first paragraph start "The Games were..." Tenses should be more consistent.
  • "The Soviets would go on to win more medals than any other nation at these Games." Replacing "would go on" to "went on" eliminates an unnecessary word, and makes the voice of the sentence more active, which is usually a good thing.
  • "Politics did not impact the 1956 Winter Games as it did the Summer Games in Melbourne, Australia, when the Soviet response...". "when" → "where". Works better with what comes before it.
  • Host city selection: "They persuaded the city council of Cortina to bid for the 1944 Games." The last sentence only mentioned one Bonacossa, so "they" really doesn't apply anymore. I suppose this should start with "The Bonacossas" or similar.
  • "presented Cortina's bid to host the 1952 Winter Olympics, at the 40th IOC Session in Stockholm, Sweden." Minor point, but the comma after 1952 Winter Olympics can probably go.
  • "Despite the success, Bonacossa would die on 30 January 1953; three years before he could witness Cortina host the Games." Another minor punctuation point; the semi-colon should just be a regular comma.
  • Organisation: The Italian National Olympic Committee doesn't need another link after the one in the previous section.
  • "the alpine ski runs were in poor condition as was the ski jump and bobsleigh run." Here, "was" should be another "were" since there is more than one element after it (assuming they were different sites).
  • "They commenced the competition by playing each team in their pool in a round robin format ." Get rid of that space before the period.
  • "while the United States took the silver and Canada, with their two loses, earned the bronze." "loses" → "losses".
  • "Her teammate, Carol Heiss won the silver". Situations like this are one of my pet peeves. Surrounding Carol Heiss' name, there should either be two commas or none. I would go without, but either would be better than leaving one hanging like this.
  • I have concerns about a couple of sources used in the article. Reference 4 is to Merriam-Webster, and reference 7 is to Brittanica. Surely for a page on an Olympic Games, which surely has good sources waiting to be found, we can do better than a dictionary and a fellow encyclopedia.

It's definitely a good article, but I don't think the prose quite rises to the level of what I've been seeing in recently featured FAs. With a little copy-editing, though, passage should be doable during this FAC. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:41, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments, I will address the issues you brought up and do a thorough copy edit. Fresh eyes are always appreciated especially regarding prose, so if you (or any other editor) see prose deficiencies please bring them up and I will correct them. H1nkles citius altius fortius 15:12, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I've made the suggested changes and worked through the other sections not mentioned above. I tried to tighten up the prose and fix problems as I found them. Regarding the two references mentioned, I changed the Webster cite but it was difficult because the information is most readily found in travel websites and I felt that those were more suspect than Webster. I was able to find a book that I think will work for a replacement. I also replaced the Britannica site fairly easily. I was not aware that those two references were looked down upon at FAC. Thank you and please let me know if my work does or does not meet the standards. H1nkles citius altius fortius 16:11, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Comments - I feel happier about the prose now. beginning a read though now. The prose is a little repetitive with some redundancies which should be easy to iron out. Please revert any changes I make which inadvertently change or lose meaning. I will jot queries below. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:22, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
..Norway, defeated Cortina by twice the number of votes - does this mean Norway had double or triple Cortina's votes? i.e. " by twice..."
It should mean that Norway had double the votes that Cortina had but it really is unnecessary information (how many votes Norway beat Cortina by), I will remove this. H1nkles citius altius fortius 22:36, 25 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, if it were me I might add an adverb like "soundly defeated" or something. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:54, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Alrighty I'll work on a good adverb, nice thinking. H1nkles citius altius fortius 02:37, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the support! H1nkles citius altius fortius 03:18, 26 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - This was an interesting article. The TV and Soviet Winter Olympics debut info was new to me. I went through and did a little copyediting, but didn't make it all the way through. Please revert if I messed up the meaning anywhere. I skimmed the rest and have a few comments:
  • In the venues section, "The ability...was unprecedented" reads a little funny.
  • "A special cooling plant was built under the stadium, which froze the rink" — Maybe this is OK. Maybe should be "froze the ice"?
  • Refs 3, 4 and 37 are missing a space before the page #. Nitpicky, I know.
  • It's a bit tricky to summarize main articles into single paragraphs, but when this is done, the text sometimes seems a little choppy. One example was the opening ceremonies and I tried to smooth it a bit. Another is the ski jumping section.
  • In the closing ceremonies section, it isn't completely clear here if Greece and the US were also participants. And I was surprised to read "respective poles". I cannot think of a great way to write this, but could it be something to the effect of after all the flags of participating nations were displayed, the Greece and US flags were hoisted as the originating nation and the next winter olympics host? Strafpeloton2 (talk) 04:49, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your comments, I'll work on your suggestions. H1nkles citius altius fortius 15:56, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ok I've made the suggested corrections, I tried to find some better wording for the sections you mentioned please see if it is improved. H1nkles citius altius fortius 16:13, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
All these issues were addressed. Good work! Strafpeloton2 (talk) 23:09, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see two MOS issues that should be fixed. First, the template used in See also breaches WP:LAYOUT-- it repeats the article in See also (!!!) and contains links that should be worked into the article. Second, I suspect a review of WP:ACCESS is needed for the chart in Calendar-- I don't think it would be understandable to color blind people, and tables should not rely on color. Or something like that. Please work on these issues. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:30, 4 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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