Torontas
Joined 24 June 2014
Latest comment: 9 years ago by Denisarona in topic Muslim conquests
Welcome!
|
The talk page of Torontas
Your "source" edit
You will provide a quote from "Sykes, Percy, History of Persia, Vol. 1, (Routledge and Kegan Paul: London, 1969), pg. 492" to support your inclusion of "Arab Christians". If you do not provide a quote from said source, I will notify an Admin of your falsifying information from a source. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:15, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
- This is a pretty serious accusation and so far I cannot find anything to suggest that Kansas Bear is wrong, so I also will be very interested in your explanation. I am an WP:Administrator. Dougweller (talk) 15:43, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
- There is much I would wish to discuss on the issue, and when I have a few spare moments (as I am unfortunately somewhat busy at present), I will certainly do so. However, I wish to clarify what exactly is being disputed. I had, perhaps erroneously, assumed that it was fairly common knowledge that there were Arab Christian tribes who were indeed involved in various engagements in the time of Muslim conquests. If you believed the example I had provided was inadequate or indeed a "fake source", what of other examples, such as their involvement in the Battle of Dawmat al-Jandal, as accounted by Pakistani historian, Agha Ibrahim Akram in his The Sword of Allah: Khalid bin al-Waleed, His Life and Campaigns? (Nat. Publishing. House, Rawalpindi (1970) [ISBN 0-7101-0104-X]) Torontas (talk) 23:02, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
- Still no quote from the source you used, yet you have had plenty of time to stalk my edits and canvass editors with whom I have had discussions/conflicts with. FYI, Dougweller is an Admin, not my friend per your ranting at Callanecc and Adam Bishop's talk page. Along with comments about my religion.[1] Pity you just couldn't provide the quote, assuming you even can. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:14, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
- And again, you fail to answer my request for clarification. It is clear that you yourself are familiar with this and related subjects, and so I am somewhat surprised that you have come to such strong conclusions so quickly. From your own personal historical knowledge, and your claims of false information regarding mine, let me ask you, do you genuinely disbelieve that there were some Arab Christian tribes present at these conflicts? Again, I do not have the luxury of time or the inclination at present to spend hours debating this, but when I have a few moments to spare, I will do so. If you are able to, you might be interested in pages 54 to 57 of this source. Torontas (talk) 21:48, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
- The burden of proof is on you. "All content must be verifiable. The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and is satisfied by providing a citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution".
- You used the Sykes source, you have been asked provide a quote or it will be quite clear that you have falsified a source to edit war. Plain and simple. Considering the smoke and mirrors routine you have put on, it is becoming clear you do not have evidence that the Sykes source states "Arab Christians". Whether another source states "Arab Christians" or not is immaterial. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:57, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
- No, whether other sources say so is relevant to the discussion as well, and very much so. From your continued personal attacks and unfounded claims of my attempts at deception, you seem to have very little regard for certain policies as WP:Civility, WP:Assume good faith, and WP:Revert only when necessary. Almost every day, you have been constantly edit-warring with dozens, perhaps hundreds, of other users for years now on Wikipedia, and all you can do is threaten to report them and have them banned. Rather, why not simply leave a simple [citation needed] tag whenever possible rather than such extreme action, and so frequently? Torontas (talk) 22:06, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
- And again, you fail to answer my request for clarification. It is clear that you yourself are familiar with this and related subjects, and so I am somewhat surprised that you have come to such strong conclusions so quickly. From your own personal historical knowledge, and your claims of false information regarding mine, let me ask you, do you genuinely disbelieve that there were some Arab Christian tribes present at these conflicts? Again, I do not have the luxury of time or the inclination at present to spend hours debating this, but when I have a few moments to spare, I will do so. If you are able to, you might be interested in pages 54 to 57 of this source. Torontas (talk) 21:48, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
- Still no quote from the source you used, yet you have had plenty of time to stalk my edits and canvass editors with whom I have had discussions/conflicts with. FYI, Dougweller is an Admin, not my friend per your ranting at Callanecc and Adam Bishop's talk page. Along with comments about my religion.[1] Pity you just couldn't provide the quote, assuming you even can. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:14, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
- There is much I would wish to discuss on the issue, and when I have a few spare moments (as I am unfortunately somewhat busy at present), I will certainly do so. However, I wish to clarify what exactly is being disputed. I had, perhaps erroneously, assumed that it was fairly common knowledge that there were Arab Christian tribes who were indeed involved in various engagements in the time of Muslim conquests. If you believed the example I had provided was inadequate or indeed a "fake source", what of other examples, such as their involvement in the Battle of Dawmat al-Jandal, as accounted by Pakistani historian, Agha Ibrahim Akram in his The Sword of Allah: Khalid bin al-Waleed, His Life and Campaigns? (Nat. Publishing. House, Rawalpindi (1970) [ISBN 0-7101-0104-X]) Torontas (talk) 23:02, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
- Torontas, you could resolve the issue immediately by providing the quote Kansas Bear asked for. That seems the easiest solution. I expect you can do so upon request, for a source you added to an article less than two days ago after there was some contention about that statement's verifiability, can't you? Huon (talk) 23:33, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
- Huon (another Administrator) is of course correct. This is simply resolved by explaining how your source does or does not back the text you added. This is a separate issue from whether you are correct or not. Dougweller (talk) 11:45, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you, Doug, for your advice, and I much appreciate it. However, as you may recall: [2], after Kansas notified you, you deleted the edit before I was able to log back on again or join any such discussion, which led me to the conclusion that the issue was - for most intents and purposes - closed. If the source is not a reliable one, as you strongly believe, then it scarcely requires such a quote, as it evidently fails to comply with Wikipedia standards in the first place. Torontas (talk) 21:45, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Sorry for taking so long to respond to your message - haven't been online for days due to work pressures. My knowledge of this subject is very limited and my recent revert was one of removing vandalism, so unfortunatley I don't think my input would be of any assistance. Regards Denisarona (talk) 15:24, 28 June 2014 (UTC)