Penlite

Welcome!

Hello, Penlite! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! —MelbourneStar☆talk 11:51, 7 April 2016 (UTC) Getting Started Contributing to Wikipedia The five pillars of Wikipedia • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions New contributors' help page Where to: ask questions • make requests Tip of the day Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump IRC channels • Mailing lists Discover what's going on in the Wikimedia community (The Signpost) Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Your submission at Articles for creation: User:Penlite (April 7)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Dodger67 was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to User:Penlite/sandbox/User:Penlite and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Hello! Penlite, I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Not a problem. There was a misunderstanding about the process and protocol, while I was releatively new to Wikipedia.

~ Penlite (talk) 06:33, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Questions for Washington Post story

Hi, Penlite.

My name’s Chris, and I’m a reporter with The Washington Post. I’m working on a story about edits being made on Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump’s Wikipedia pages during the 2016 presidential election cycle, and I'm interested in interviewing some people of the Wikipedia community who have contributed edits.

I saw you’re a participant of the WikiProject Hillary Clinton project, and I’d like to ask you some questions about your participation thus far.

Please let me know if you’re interested in talking. You can send me a message here or contact me via email: chris[dot]alcantara[at]washpost.com. If you are working with anyone else who is editing these pages, feel free to pass my contact information along. I understand you wanting to remain anonymous, and I'm happy to work with you on that if you choose to answer some of my questions. You can find some more information about my ongoing project here.

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your response.

Cheers, Chris — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chriswapo (talk • contribs) 19:26, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Your draft article, User:Penlite/sandbox/User:Penlite

Hello, Penlite. It has been over six months since you last edited your Articles for Creation draft article submission, "sandbox/User:Penlite".

In accordance with our policy that Articles for Creation is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}} or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. 1989 (talk) 23:03, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

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Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from CSI: Crime Scene Investigation into CSI effect. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was moved, attribution is not required. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 13:42, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Citation overkill

Hello Penlite, thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia!. I just wanted to let you know about citation overkill. Generally, four solid reliable sources are enough for each idea (i.e. a single sentence or multiple sentences all dealing with the same statement). Your edits have been backed by many good sources, but adding five or more citations to a single idea may be a bit of an overkill. On Wikipedia, we'd all like to assume good faith about each other's edits; however, adding too many citations may ironically put edits under more scrutiny. A large clutter of citations may be perceived by some as an attempt to back a controversial statement as fact, even if said statement is [proven to be] fact. This can generally be avoided by adding citations to the information it is specifically referencing instead of cluttering them at the end of an idea, or just leaving out less reliable sources in favour of the four most reliable. For example, if I had three scientific studies, a document from a [generally] reputable organisation (such as the UN or NASA) and two news sources quoting the other examples, it's probably best for me to pick the three scientific studies and the one document. Just something to keep in mind whilst editing, since nobody wants to unintentionally cause doubt in a reader. All the best, CentreLeftRight ✉ 01:40, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

@CentreLeftRight:, while I've attempted to take this guidance largely to heart, since my first couple of years of (infrequent) Wiki-editing, I've occasionally strayed, and have been recently been slapped around by another editor citing this comment on my Talk page. While I'm sure I understand the guidance on WP:CitationOverkill, and generally try to respect it, there are substantial reasons for varying, including:

• WP:Linkrot, which is a chronic problem with most of the material I edit, I've discovered -- because much of it requires citing major news media -- most of whom, unfortunately, do not keep their articles online indefinitely (and with a decline in print media, and a sharp reduction in its archiving in libraries, often leave few, if any, traces that the article ever existed). To avoid that problem, multiple citations are absolutely needed (though I'm learning to bundle them, now).
• Citation clutter resulting from having to sprinkle far too many citations throughout a paragraph, resulting in sharply diminished readability. For instance (as often happens in articles I'm editing), if I have sources 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 -- for various elements of a paragraph -- the normal (widely accepted) method of citation would look like this:

While 400 widgets were produced by RonkleKonkle Systems in 1940 -- during their conversion from a plastics fabricator to a metal-products manufacturer -- their industry-shaping whatchamacallits remained the industry standard. Because of their popularity, they continued to sell in the thousands, topping 3,200 in 1942. This resulted in a splitting of the company into two divisions -- plastics and metals -- with the owner's son taking charge of the new metals division, while his father remained in charge of the plastics division.

Instead, bunching references at the end yields a much more readable product:

While 400 widgets were produced by RonkleKonkle Systems in 1940 -- during their conversion from a plastics fabricator to a metal-products manufacturer -- their industry-shaping whatchamacallits remained the industry standard. Because of their popularity, they continued to sell in the thousands, topping 3,200 in 1942. This resulted in a splitting of the company into two divisions -- plastics and metals -- with the owner's son taking charge of the new metals division, while his father remained in charge of the plastics division.

References

• Expedience in editing: which is prevented by "citation clutter". It is far more difficult to efficiently and productively edit a paragraph when you have to insert reference citations at various places within the paragraph -- as opposed to posting them all at the end of the paragraph.

Moreover, it is even worse for the next editor (or oneself) to, later, try and edit that tangled paragraph, in which it is often nearly impossible to quickly identify which text is body text, and which is elements of a reference citation. Many mistakes often result, further delaying and frustrating attempts at good editing, and discouraging careful documentation. The resulting editor inefficiency and exhaustion -- and resulting editor indifference -- sharply reduces the volume of productivity and precision of Wiki-editors, and thus reduces the total quality and quantity content of Wikipedia.

Respectfully,

~ Penlite (talk) 12:45, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

~ Penlite (talk)

~ Penlite (talk) 13:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Rohingya people

I get what you are trying to do there, but honestly a post along the lines of "no Muslims must edit this page" is a borderline violation of NOTFORUM; the only reason I didn't remove it was because it had some tangential mention of actual content. In such a case, I'd suggest you limit yourself to a single response; nothing good comes of lengthy debate. Not that it's wrong on your part, just not likely to be productive. Regards, Vanamonde (talk) 17:19, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

NOTE: for the record, to people dropping in and viewing this, out-of-context, I am not the person who made the disgusting "no Muslims must edit this page" remark (referred to in the message, above). Vanamode was referring to my negative responses to that remark -- and that the whole debate topic (on another page) that the other poster instigated, was not proper for Wikipedia. (I concurred, and encouraged its deletion, as noted below). ~ Penlite (talk) 13:36, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

@Vanamonde. Noted. Thanks. Please feel free to delete that entire section (if you also delete the remarks I was responding to). The whole conversation should never have come up, IMHO, and I sure didn't appreciate having to say what it seemed had to be said to make the point. Would really have preferred if another editor had nipped his edit-bigotry in the bud. Don't like "playing cop" on WP. ~ Penlite (talk) 05:18, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

That's alright: this is more of a general suggestion than a request with respect to this discussion. Vanamonde (talk) 18:02, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

@Vanamonde. Your remark "nothing good comes of lengthy debate" may be true, but in my limited experience with online posting (at Wikipedia and elsewhere), short posts seem to invite endless debate -- while a long, solidly presented, comprehsnsive, well-documented "lecture," either bores people to sleep -- or shuts them up by leaving no exposed avenue for invalid and spurious arguments (except where I'm demonstrably wrong).

It's a lot more work at first (a miserable, tedious chore), but seems to save a lot of follow-up that might otherwise be required to deal with countless additional spurious arguments by a stubborn party or faction.

I'm very uncomfortable and embarrassed about being so combative and domineering, when I'd rather just focus on editing the article, constructively -- but if I don't swat all the flies, at first sight, they swarm the cake as soon as it's baked.

Thanks for your gentle guidance. ~ Penlite (talk) 00:59, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

• Whilst I appreciate your interests, please do not participate in defending nonsense stuff.Winged Blades^Godric 12:00, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

• Godric is quite correct, Penlite. When users engage in original research, the proper response is to ask them to support their assertions with sources, not to engage in OR yourself to try to refute them. Again, I appreciate what you are trying to do, but it's better in the long run to avoid such a dispute. Vanamonde (talk) 12:14, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

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COI editing

You might find the current two/party discussion on the Sam Brownback Talk page somewhat interesting, given your prior comment which I just noticed. 23:12, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

(added wikilink). ~ Penlite (talk) 19:29, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Rohingya.

@Penlite:@Vanamonde93: Hi, want to show you these figures here, as I'm banned on the article page.

−

1869 24,637

−

1872 census 64,315

--Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 13:52, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

@Sidoroff-B:, as you've been told multiple times, you are engaging in original research. I couldn't care less about what conclusions you draw from the census, because they are your conclusions, and carry no weight. Please find reliable sources to support your position, or prepare to be ignored (or possibly sanctioned). Vanamonde (talk) 14:11, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

@Vanamonde93: OK, I'll take you out of the discussion. It was a reply to @Penlite: American example. And considering the sources, which of them do you consider "reliable"? --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 14:33, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

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World Mission Society Church of God

Penlite, please don't do this kind of thing--the last thing we want is editor speculating about living people in article space. Drmies (talk) 01:40, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

@Drmies: I take it you're referring to my speculating, in the article, that the two New Jersey Michele/Michelle(s) with the Hispanic surnames, who both sued the church around the same time, were possibly one and the same. If so, I agree, wholeheartedly. You're quite right to advise against such speculation in an article, and I'm baffled at my having done so. Was probably thinking out loud (in print), inappropriately. The two did seem strangely coincidental, and I was afraid that I was overblowing the lawsuit angle, if the suits were simply the work of one party (name changing with marriage). I recall that something in the sources gave me that impression, but don't remember what. But, again, you're right to strip that speculation from the article. Thanks.

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Apparently done, already. ~ Penlite (talk) 13:58, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Iron lung

The Administrator's Noticeboard is not the place to discuss the content of Iron lung. Your post there will be archived very quickly and no trace will be connected from Talk:Iron lung. By all means copy and paste it to the correct location, but don't expect other editors to go chasing after your contributions made at the wrong venue.

In addition, you are giving the wrong impression by simply posting a link to your statement. The talk page isn't a place for you to merely expound your position as if it's unquestionable: it's a place for you to collaborate with other editors in finding ways of improving the article, and to do that you are going to have to make your proposals on that talk page. Any changes to the article will only arise from those participating there. --RexxS (talk) 19:24, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

@RexxS:: Thank you for this guidance. Frankly, this is the first real edit conflict, taken to this level (or anything like it), that I've ever had in my years of wiki-editing. I'm not conflict-focused, just content-focused. I'm simply unfamiliar with all the elaborate wiki-rituals and protocols for dealing with this kind of situation, and a little taken aback by some of the responses I've received. At the same time, I have (had) a life, and need to get back to it.

I'll try to fix this, as best as I can figure out how, within the severely limited time frame I have to work with (while dealing with my other numerous, pressing responsibilities), and post a suggested revision to my sandbox, for others to review and comment upon, if that's proper. Is it? ~ Penlite (talk) 19:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

@Penlite: That's perfectly fine, and there really is no deadline. Of course we all want to improve articles, but sometimes that involves discussing changes patiently when others don't see particular sources or content as an improvement. By all means use your sandbox to illustrate the text and sources you want to use. Please link to it from Talk:Iron lung as that provides not just a convenience for other editors who may wish to review, but a record for future editors of how the article was developed (that's why we want to keep the article talk page as the hub for discussing improvements). Hope that helps. --RexxS (talk) 22:17, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

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Done. ~ Penlite (talk) 13:57, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

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Tigray genocide

hi Penlite. For the moment, several sources refer to crimes against humanity in the Tigray War, but the term Tigray genocide, despite being overwhelmingly obvious to an uninvolved outsider browsing the sources, is so far not on the lips of any UN or other official sources, although strong concerns have been expressed. On the other hand, War crimes in the Tigray War would quite likely be justified by the sources, if someone wished to create the article. See Template:Tigray conflict, in particular the Ethnic profiling, massacres, sexual violence, and the combined civilian+military Casualties articles. The analogy with the Rohingya case, is, unfortunately, highlighted by Abiy Ahmed also receiving the Nobel peace prize. As evidence accumulates and court cases go forward, the title would quite likely undergo changes, as happened in the Rohingya case. A difference between the two cases is that part of the genocide in the Tigray case is being done by starvation. A similarity is that Abiy might not have realised how genocidal the Eritrean soldiers would be and might not hold direct legal responsibility.

The only risk with creating the article right now is that it would risk having too much overlap with existing articles: executions of civilians without any military necessity - i.e. war crimes - are already reasonably well covered in the en.Wikipedia articles, based on the sources that seem to be known. The sources that see a deliberately designed genocide tend to be somewhat opinionated and wouldn't necessarily be accepted as WP:RSes. Boud (talk) 18:51, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

@Boud and Boud: Perhaps you could simply refer to these combined issues, past and present combined, as the "Tigray persecution" -- although, perhaps, segregating events by time frame is appropriate for this, in the title (e.g.: "Tigray persecution (2020-2021)" as the title for current events). Also this title-enhancement may be appropriate for the article(s) about Tigray War, since there have been previous conflicts involving Tigray (and Ethiopia).

~ Penlite (talk) 05:11, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Another (somewhat impulsive) thought: refer to all conflict issues involving Tigray -- Wars, Persecutions, War Crimes, Genocide -- under the catch-all title "Tigray conflict". This is a more WP:NPOV title, reducing (hopefully) the risk of subsequent title changes by someone disagreeing with the characterization of something as "persecution" or "genocide" or "war crimes" (the latter two having specific legal meanings in some situations, and thus theoretically subject to legal-nomenclature standards -- especially if the term is used to describe a specific perpetrator, running the risk of defamation that could violate WP:BLP guidelines, and even trigger litigation against Wikipedia). (Yes, I'm painting a worst-case scenario here).

~ Penlite (talk) 05:18, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions. On the question of BLP issues, I once raised the question of Template:ICC_indictees_(NavBox) at the BLP noticeboard, since being labelled as an ICC indictee after your case has been dropped or your conviction has been overturned is much worse for your reputation than being accused of an "ordinary" non-war crime. There was very little concern expressed that the inclusion of legally absolved living people in the template might violate their rights. I think the motivation was that you don't get indicted by the ICC without a huge amount of public information, and once this information is overwhelmingly in the public record, it's un-erasable; and that it's better to have the charges and the full results of the court case and why the person had the case dropped or no conviction or a conviction that was overturned remain in the public record. As long we stick to the sources, there's no BLP violation.

Back to your suggestions: there are both wider and more specific articles that will very likely be written on this broad topic sooner or later. As more people from the Horn of Africa develop the motivation and skills to contribute constructively to en.Wikipedia, this seems inevitable to me. We'll see. Boud (talk) 11:49, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Waiting for "more people from the Horn of Africa develop the motivation and skills to contribute constructively to en.Wikipedia" could be a very long wait. English is, at best, an infrequent second language for most in the Horn of Africa -- where computer ownership and literacy, and internet access and competence, are in extremely short supply.

Moreover, passions run high in the Horn, and surrounding regions, making it rather challenging to find a WP:NPOV approach to any issue there. Honest, accurate and fair Wikipedia reporting on this issue probably must fall on the shoulders of those far away, and more detached, personally, from the issues, in my humble opinion. ~ Penlite (talk) 02:17, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

 Done I prefer to assume that those who live in the Horn are fully able to look at the evidence, and my qualitative guess is that most of them (on site and in the diaspora) are indeed keeping an eye on and editing en.Wikipedia articles on the topic very constructively. The irrational locals point of view doesn't convince me much. That doesn't mean that global editors cannot contribute. If you're interested, feel free to keep an eye on War crimes in the Tigray War. My judgment, based on the sources, is that as "war crimes", the topic is well-established. The long-term question will be whether to switch to crimes against humanity or genocide. My prediction is that the sources will converge on this within a few years. (My personal guess of "genocide" is only speculation, especially since I don't follow all the quite subtle legal arguments between the different categories of mass extermination and I'm unlikely to be especially interested.)

As a footnote to my comment above: the claims of genocide make sense, properly attributed, within an article on war crimes; and I think (as the first author, so I'm biased) that the article, as it currently stands, focuses on the topic without overlap with the other articles beyond what's relevant. Boud (talk) 03:21, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

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Rutherford County, Tennessee

I trimmed your lengthy edit, but inadvertently deleted your most recent edit. My apology. Magnolia677 (talk) 15:56, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: Apology accepted. I reverted your last change. Please be patient for another hour or so. I'm making some fixes (was making one of the condensations you made). Please read my edit summaries before acting. Thanks. Also see the article's Talk page.

~ Penlite (talk) 16:47, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	Thanks for your work on Rutherford County, Tennessee juvenile jail controversy (including when the content was just at Rutherford County, Tennessee). Really important stuff. — Bilorv (talk) 23:41, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

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Donna Scott Davenport

Sorry to say that your recent edits add a redundant source, twice, to the introduction. So, reversed. Please do expand on the content, such as the content of that deposition.Lindenfall (talk) 20:42, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

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Moved

Hi, FYI, I've moved your (blanked) sandbox into your own user space, at User:Penlite/Sandbox2, as it should never have been in the main article space to begin with. Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:00, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing:Could you just delete it? I've realized the error, and before I could delete the old sandbox, I'd already created a User:Penlite/Sandbox/2 (please don't disturb that page).

~ Penlite (talk) 08:06, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

• DoubleGrazing is not an admin and unable to delete it directly. However you can request its deletion under wp:U1 -- Dolotta (talk) 14:17, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

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Fixed it. ~ Penlite (talk) 08:55, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of JusticeInfo

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A tag has been placed on JusticeInfo, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

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@Onel5969:, @Bbb23:: While, in retrospect, I can appreciate the impression you may have gotten, that this was some promotional article developed by a person connected to that enterprise, that is NOT the case, here. I have absolutely NO connection to any of the entities or persons named in the article, let alone the subject, itself -- JusticeInfo.

The only reason I wrote this article was because I kept running across JusticeInfo almost everywhere that I looked for information on certain crimes against humanity -- primarily in Africa, but also elsewhere around the globe.

Not only were Google searches on those subjects responding with JusticeInfo articles, they were also responding with articles, statements and other documents from other media, organizations and institutions -- which, in turn were citing JusticeInfo as a source. And these were not just stray references from obscure sources. They were from some of the world's most important major media, and from major institutions and organizations in the field of human rights (as I clearly and thoroughly document in the section "Distribution and use"). Clearly they think JusticeInfo is a substantial and important source.

Despite the fact that JusticeInfo articles seem firmly congruent with these other major sources on these issues, I, personally, didn't have any real faith, or put much stock, in it until i saw, repeatedly, that they put faith in it. After seeing such references to that source, everywhere I looked on the topics I was researching, and seeing that only Wikipedia, itself, seemed to have no idea who they were, I figured it was a gap in Wikipedia that was severely overdue for a fix -- especially since dozens of Wikpedia articles (only a handful of which I've contributed to) already cite it as a source.

I agree that there isn't a lot of chatter about this source, itself, on the internet. And, in researching it, I was very frustrated by that. But, frankly, new media usually doesn't attract much attention for itself unless its part of a large-scale commercial operation -- which automatically is the focus of massive amounts of coverage in the business media world (Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg News, Fast Company, etc.), and in media industry publications (E&P, CJR, AJR, Deadline, AdWeek, etc.), and in local media of the "Northeast megalopolis" (New York Times, Washington Post, The Washingtonian, etc., reporting on media in their own turf).

Apparently JusticeInfo is a non-profit -- and coverage of such media (especially if it's non-Anglo/American) is usually avoided, or very tardy, in the English-language commercial media world. And I don't have the proficiency in French, or any other European language, to effectively scour the European media for their coverage of this topic.

Moreover, JusticeInfo is European (and, though co-published in English, is not British). English-language Wikipedia is notoriously Anglo-American in its focus, and its coverage of new media outside that realm is seemingly tardy, if it happens at all. I thought I was helping to rectify that.

Frankly, for a new media outlet -- take, for example, Punchbowl News or even early Politico -- Wikipedia articles about those new media essentially establish those media's notability, initially, by citing their affiliations (in the case of JusticeInfo, none other than Oxford and Harvard), and by citing the prior media connections of its staffers. I followed that protocol for JusticeInfo with as exacting and thorough documentation as I could, within a reasonable timeframe.

Because I remained a bit skeptical of JusticeInfo, i did not take their promotional claims about their staff at face value. Instead, I took care to further research them, and ensure that at least some independent validation of the claims about them existed, and I documented those very carefully with appropriate ref cites. I only listed those JusticeInfo staffers who had notable credentials that I could independently (and randomly) check and validate from some of their claimed prior connections. Most of those were major media or substantial institutions in their own right, as wikilinks in most of my references demonstrate.

Since my judgement on the matter is not being taken seriously, I urge the critics to do their own research, to see whether JusticeInfo is a substantial and notable medium in its field of focus (transitional justice for crimes against humanity, and related matters). In fact, I would like to know if there is any more prominent periodical or website focused on transitional justice.

I will revisit the article as my (heavy) workload permits, and attempt to provide more detail. But, in the meantime, please keep it in Draft, so that the demanded changes can be made (if I can find the time and further online references).

Respectfully,

~ Penlite (talk) 09:23, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

JusticeInfo moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, JusticeInfo, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Bbb23 (talk) 17:08, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

I strongly urge you not to move the article back to article space on your own but to go through WP:AFC to get feedback from other editors as to what you need to do to make the article ready for article space. From the article itself, as well as from your comments on the article Talk page, I don't see you as being in the best position to make editorial judgments, although you are probably in a good position to do the necessary research and hopefully implement changes requested by others. As it stands, the article is way too long, and although I didn't think it qualified as a WP:G11, it is far more promotional than it should be. It does not come across as a solid, neutral encyclopedia article. Finally, it needs a lot of proofing; in just skimming it I found many errors that should be corrected before it is moved back to article space.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:18, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

@Bbb23:Thank you for saving it from the dumpster. Please see my response to the previous post by the deleter.

Respectfully, ~ Penlite (talk) 10:53, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Personal attacks

Please try to keep discussion civil and focus on content in talk page discussions. I don't appreciate the ad hominem attacks you've made against me in Talk:Constitution of the United States. Freoh (talk) 13:06, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

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Fixed it. Thanks.

Penlite (talk) 06:21, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:JusticeInfo

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Georja Calvin-Smith has been accepted

Georja Calvin-Smith, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

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Audie Murphy

I hope you're not discouraged by the somewhat tempestuous reception your very good edits received in Audie Murphy. I noticed your absence and hope you reappear and continue contributing, which I intend to do as well. I've read two of the Murphy bios, and I found the Graham book is especially helpful. Coretheapple (talk) 22:47, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

@Coretheapple:: Thank you for the kind encouragement. ~ Penlite (talk) 20:32, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Certainly. I'm just trying to gin up some interest in the article. It is funny how that talk page blows hot and cold. I feel like I am sitting in an auditorium talking to myself. LOL. Coretheapple (talk) 20:56, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Audience scores

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Fixed it.~ Penlite (talk) 18:10, 27 April 2024 (UTC)