User talk:Lehoiberri/Archive 1

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"I am a mestiza. I am the product of the Spaniards and the Mapuche Indians, so I can understand both currents, both traditions, and I feel that I can write about it, because I feel it inside." Those are Isabel Allende's own words and this is the source[[1]] The Allende's were originally from Euskadi, but her father's ancestors were in part Mapuche.

que listo eres, no

aver tio llevas aqui 2 dias y ya te crees que vas a cambiarlo todo, esas categorias llevan asi desde siempre, si te pica te rasca, pero no vandalices, joder, un spanish brazilian aunque no sea de origen español, tiene pasaporte y ya es un spanish brazilian, un brazilian spaniard es un español nacido en españa, de origen brasileño, aver si te enteras, no me caliente mas. adios vandalo, Raymond Cruise 16:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

y tu porque cojones sabes que no son de origen español?, le has echo a todos la prueba del adn, la verdad es que flipo contigo, dios llevas desde octubre del 2007, yo desde mayo de 2005, tu cambias todo lo que quieras, que yo estoy seguro de lo que hago asi que tengo la conciencia tranquila, te podria responder en ingles, pero como se que me entiendes en español, no pasa nada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raymond Cruise (talk • contribs) 15:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

bueno, si nos ponemos de acuerdo, se ponen las dos categorias, y no pasa nada, y de paso de disculpo contigo por las formas empleadas, ok? venga cuentame mas de ti, de donde eres? .. Raymond Cruise 17:03, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Chart

Yes agree..yes but the spanish poulation is wrong in the reference also..but i just added it all in from the reference...all seems to be good aprt from the spanish pop.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.147.39 (talk) 17:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Recent comments

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Addhoc (talk) 19:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

WP:AIV report

Hello – thanks for your report to WP:AIV regarding Opinoso. He has been notified that his previous report to AIV was inappropriate, as AIV is for obvious and persistent vandalism, not disputes between editors. You were also notified that the personal attack you left was inappropriate. If personal attacks continue, in violation of WP:NPA, we have established mechanisms to deal with them and you're welcome to avail yourself of those processes if you feel it's necessary. In the meantime, I've removed your report from AIV, as it is not vandalism and a block is inappropriate. Please let me know if you have questions. Thanks. KrakatoaKatie 19:42, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

You're not being reported, you're not being blamed, you're not in trouble, and you're not being ignored. I left the above message as a courtesy, rather than simply blanking your report without telling you when or why. Many admins wouldn't say anything at all after dismissing a report, but I could tell you were flustered and I thought you'd like to know that someone responded, how I responded, and why.

You called him a name, he called you a name, and now it's time to stop it. Tempers sometimes flare here, and that's okay – within limits. It jumps over the line when the words 'jackass' and 'racist' and the like are hurled between people who don't even know anything about each other. This is a collaborative environment, and it's essential to discuss content to create the encyclopedia. If you can't do that without stress, it's a good idea to step away until you can read and respond to dialogue calmly. One personal attack is not going to get either of you blocked, but if it continues, you can come to WP:ANI, where you'll see what happens when things escalate. Don't let it escalate.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that a human being saw your report, and I left the note (two notes now) to tell you about it. If you consider it as being ignored, I really can't help you. Have a nice weekend. - KrakatoaKatie 20:37, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Italian settlement in Argentina

Hi. I've made some edits to the article you created- mostly to improve the language and format. Hopefully you approve! Dionix (talk) 18:12, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

British Chilean

Hello, thank you for your message. I reverted the blanking because it is not appropriate to have blank pages on Wikipedia; see Wikipedia:No blank pages for the guideline on this. Was it your thought that the redirect should be deleted? If so, list it for deletion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion. If you need help with this, let me know. Kind regards. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:48, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

April 2008

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to White Latin American, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. --Wikiscribe (talk) 04:25, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Warning:white latin america

Warning

Please refrain from making unnecessary changes to White Latin American. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you.--Wikiscribe (talk) 04:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

white latin american

there was no concensus on the removal of the picture also race is a phenotype half of the white population of the united states of america are self hating white guiltist that does not mean they are not white this is encyclopedia its based on fact and che was in fact white obviously as you stated his background is irish and basque, and if you see the talk page i objected to his removal from the box right away, che was a very important figure from latin america and he just happened to be white if pele said he was not black would he be removed from the info box from the Afro-Latin American article i think not because he is black and it is obvious.--Wikiscribe (talk) 05:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey Lehoiberri, answer my last question, please: what about 20 images, one from each country? SamEV (talk) 23:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm still seeking an answer to this ([2]. Would appreciate a response. Thanks. SamEV (talk) 01:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Australian Brazilian

Just a quick caution; your remark could be considered fairly offensive. Ironholds 20:35, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

"They have not contribute to Brazil's history and culture, and they are nowhere in Brazilian society. Why is there a page for an unnotable community? This is such a useless page!". Do you think any Australian Brazilians might be offended to be told they're nowhere and contribute nothing to brazil? That's why it's offensive.Ironholds 05:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Again, offensive. Personal opinions are not for wikipedia. You have to have a stronger reason to delete than "I dont think they're an important group of immigrants". and there are altogether 37 million Italian/German Brazillians, so yes, they probably do contribute more, but use of language like that of the AfD is heavily frowned apon. Ironholds 06:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Deleting information from Argentine American

I'm curious about this edit, why do you say the study is controversial? How do you know that "most Argentines are not mestizos"? Have you ever even been to Argentina?

Judging by the kind of articles you edit and your self description on your user page, I'd say you have some personal issues regarding your ethnicity and your ancestry. Just because your mom has Italian descent it doesn't mean the rest of the country does... Ever heard of Salta? Jujuy? Tucumán? Catamarca? I'm reverting your edit. –w2bh _{talk•contribs} 19:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh come on! I never said I doubted your background, neither have I said that your mom isn't of Italian descent. What I said is that, just because she is, doesn't mean the rest of the country is also.

The study doesn't say Argentines "aren't white". It says that 56% of Argentines have some genetic trace of amerindio. You shouldn't judge a source that's in a language you don't fully comprehend.

"I feel you have something against Argentines?" Well, I'd say that's difficult, given that I am Argentine, born and raised.

Seems like acknowledging that fact that we are not pure european whitey white is somehow bad... I may have something against Argentines. Or maybe you have something against unpure blood?

It's funny, I've lived here all my life, and I've never paid much attention to the "race" issue. Why do you have to get so worked up about it? I have blood from all over the place; for example, my great grandfather (from my father's side) was from Spain, and my grandmother (from my mother's side) is native, from Tucumán. Guess I'm not that white after all...

Finally, I know what the study is called. Just about everybody in my family is studying or has graduated from UBA. –w2bh _{talk•contribs} 22:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have made personal remarks. But the study is cited in the Argentina article. –w2bh _{talk•contribs} 16:49, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Italian Argentine

After looking through the RfD, the article, and the DRV, I went ahead and restored the article. It was a goof on my part for not catching it (though they had supposedly taken all the articles out of that batch). Try and be more civil next time though, that was simply an honest mistake by me in deleting that. Wizardman 00:10, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Argentine American Article

It seems that you have a hard time with the truth. Why should my edits make one group look Whiter and another group look less White? My intention is to go about Wikipedia with sources and add to articles that need reality. Many Argentines possess Amerindian genetics... I have no intention on debating whiteness between Mexicans and Argentines... Facts are Facts. Millions of Mexicans are White and Millions of Argentines have Amerindian ancestors. Facts shouldn't bother you. Hasta Luego, Cali567 (talk) 07:16, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I have changed the wording to fit the source which states that around 56% of Argentines indeed have Amerindian blood. Many will not admit to non-white blood, which is very noticeable in many. Have you seen documentaries on Argentina? I see many that do not fit the "Euroepan" label... Phenotypically they are more Mestizo or Amerindian. Why has it become common to hide Amerindian elements in Argentina? Especially when they are not well hidden. Argentina is a country of much more than 'European copy cat' style. It is a Latin American country, not Nordic. You yourself say you don't look Hispanic?... Hispanic has no look, contrary to what you may think. Amerindian presence in Argentina has been an aspect for longer than it was a country. Cali567 (talk) 08:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

"White" Argentine Photo

The photo of the young ladies at the Immigrant Festival (which by the way means Asian/Japanese immigrants can be represented) is not of absolute assurance that the ladies are of European descent... The middle woman looks Asiatic in phenotype and as such isn't a good candidate to represent the White population of Latin America, but rather Eurasian population. Find another picture of White Argentines if you can, there is no problem with Argentines. Cali567 (talk) 19:29, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, thank you. Cali567 (talk) 19:46, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Argentina

Dear Lehoberri, I have recently improved the ethnicity section, (I have to include the study to prevent further issues) and I wish to know your opinion.

Ps, Don't quit on wikipedia your edits are constructive! (eg the Italian Argentine article) Don't let bad faith users make you quit, you will always have someone to work about italian argentines! Regards, --Fercho85 (talk) 23:45, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Populations

Haha, sending messages to yourself Fercho85/Lehoberri! I have not used words saying that 56% of Argentines are Mestizo. I understand that to be Mestizo you should be more or less half and half (Which is hard to determine after many generations.) Half of all Argentines have Amerindian ancestors, that is a fact. That statement doesn't mean they are Mestizo... although many are. Many Mestizo's pass for White in Latin America. Argentina is no different from any other Latin American country, except for its imitation of "European" culture. As most Argentines have Indian blood, it is not a fact that Argentina is a "White" country in Latin America. Brazil or Uruguay maybe, but not Argentina. Cali567 (talk) 06:01, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

AIV

Hi, I removed your request to the AIV page because it is not the appropriate place for this kind of request. Maybe you could take it to AN/I? Regards, MSGJ (talk) 21:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Just noticed you have already done this! So no need to cross-post. MSGJ (talk) 21:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Latino/Latina

I'm responding here because it's not all that important to the specific article

No you are wrong, they do not say Latina, they say Latino. In Spanish, when being gender neutral, the masculine version is used. So its Latino, not Latina. They only use Latina when they are talking about a woman. I thought you probably should know that already. Lehoiberri (talk) 20:47, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Not quite. Gender neutrality is only used with plurals in very specific cases and and there are very few gender neutral words. Latino as used in the United States is Spanglish rather than Spanish. Deepstratagem (talk) 21:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Argentine American

Lehoi, please respond to my and Kman's inquiry over there. Thanks. SamEV (talk) 16:22, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

White Latin American images

I got it. I know what you meant: if I only cared about the image order, why did I also change the sizes?

At first I only changed the image order, a couple of days ago. But then I noticed (in the preview) that it somehow didn't work out right size-wise. Weird. I tried to adjust the sizes, but to no avail. So I gave up and just restored my old sizes. I was hoping that whatever problem you'd seen the first time would have disappeared by then; or, that you'd be kind enough to fix it. Thanks for fixing it, Lehoi. SamEV (talk) 00:40, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

List of Hispanic and Latino Americans

Hey, take it easy on that user ([3]). (And I must tell you — I wish I didn't — that many of your edit summaries fall on the uncivil side.)

It's really not so clear-cut. S/he keeps adding Vanessa Hudgens based on the fact or claim that she's part-Spanish. That's not so unreasonable on the face of it. On the other hand, you point out that she's most of all a Filipina American, and this doesn't seem to fit the Census Bureau's definition of Hispanic or Latino.

But again, there may be loopholes in that definition, I've noticed lately. I'm gathering data and sources to try and settle it. Wish me luck. SamEV (talk) 06:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Hello Lehoiberri! Merry Christmas! Huahuahua! I think you are a nice person, so I decided to leave you this message. Feliz natal!! Bye. Opinoso (talk) 15:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

'Hispanic (updated)' Should Not Be Deleted - Respect My Work

Lehoiberri , it has come to my attention that you had expressed concern over my article, 'Hispanic (Updated)'. You state that much of my article is contained in the other article, 'Hispanic', and should be considered for deletion. The 'Hispanic' piece is not entirely accurate. The author of 'Hispanic' makes statements which are highly untrue and he doesn't take into account a certain segment of the Spanish-speaking population that shouldn't be included in his definition of hispanic. I am appalled and insulted by his misuse of the term. In the past, I tried to edit his article but he ended up reverting it back to his original. In frustration, I had no choice but to offer a correction to his article so others of my background can be assured of accuracy. I want you to respect my space.

I ask that you respect my work as you would expect me and others to respect yours. Nothing is more irritating than seeing people write untruths and then not being able to do anything about it. All I ask is that you respect my work, my perspective, and my people's background. I'm not asking for much. All I'm asking for is for you to respect me and my work. Hopefully, you understand where I stand. Thank you.

. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidx5 (talk • contribs) 05:56, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Fooian Brazilian articles and sockpuppets

Can you have a look at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Troy86 --- since you seem to have been following Skanter closely, do you think those also look like his sockpuppets? Once I finish digging up diffs I'm taking this to Wikipedia:Requests for CheckUser as suggested at the SSP case. In a similar incident recently (AN/I reports here and here), a guy was indef-blocked for repeatedly creating false articles about immigrant groups, so this case may lead to the same outcome. Cheers, cab (talk) 07:21, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello Lehoiberri. I'm an admin who is trying to review Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Troy86 for possible action. I think that a Request for checkuser ought to be submitted, but it would be good to collect regular evidence first. Are you willing to add your conclusions (which you mentioned at cab's Talk page) to the sockpuppet report? The IP which is mentioned in the report geolocates to Miami, and User:Skanter claims to be at law school in Brazil. The better the data, the more likely the checkusers are to take a request seriously. If you know of any previous sockpuppet complaints, please add that information. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 19:44, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

About Hispanic (Updated) - yet again

First off, I take offense to your, "relax, take a deep breath," condescent remark. Never did I convey a "nervous" tone with you in my plea for your understanding. I'm a reasonable and civil professional. Address me in a civil tongue or don't address me at all. Second of all, I'm of English and Spaniard descent who is sensitive to the falsehoods thus far stated in wiki pages concerning the English and Spaniards. For example, one of these falsehoods covers the notion that the Welsh population is huge in Argentina when in reality it is not as significant at all in numbers as the author of the 'Argentina' piece makes it out to be. Another false notion within the same piece - both explicit and implied - is that Italians are the majority ethnic race in Argentina, when again, the numbers show this is not the case. These and other idiocies which aren't true exemplify the need to update the info therein. Third of all, I read your bio. With all due respect, according to your ethnic background, you're not qualified to dictate the origins of other nation's histories, especially Euopean. I know my English and Spaniard history. You don't. I may sound like I'm talking out of line here, but seriously, I'm not. Don't take offense as I state the facts as I see them. This is why modification is necessary. There must be an appeals board within Wiki to whom I can supplicate my case. I hope that you understand my position. I look forward to making wiki a fair and informative base of knowledge. With your help, we can progress to this goal. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidx5 (talk • contribs) 04:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Germans in Jamaica

I had to decline this speedy. Looking at the deleted article on German Jamaicans, it is quite different. If no real references can be found, it might still be considered for AfD. EdJohnston (talk) 03:55, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Argentina

Dear Lehoiberri, a third opinion is requested at Argentina's talk page I am looking forward you reply..

Cheers, --Fercho85 (talk) 20:47, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Jewish Argentine

There's more than enough support for the merger. Would you carry it out, please? SamEV (talk) 03:18, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

---

Thank you! SamEV (talk) 00:33, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Latin America Demographics

Regarding the Mestizo section; Chile has to be included given over 70% are White/Mestizo, for Argentina it’s a bit more tricky given that even though over 56% contain Amerindian ancestor, it's at a very minimal degree or percentage. Here in the U.S a sizable percentage of the White population carry and Amerindian or Black ancestor but are considered White, because they consider themselves White; So I would consider over 90% of Argentina White... but one has to mention the Amerindian percentage, if you see the USA Demographics it is mentioned; But for Chile most Condiser themselves White/ Mestizo's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jesusmariajalisco (talk • contribs) 00:46, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Mestizos in Latin America

Lehoiberri, let's talk this out then. I do not like being engaged in revert wars. I see no reason whatsoever for these sections to be without facts. If many White Argentines have Amerindian ancestry, just as many White Mexicans and other White Latin Americans do, should this not be stated?

Honestly, there is no hurt in putting this information in these articles. The sources states that as many as 56% of Argentines (whether THEY consider themselves White or not) have "at least One Amerindian ancestor". This doesn't mean they are Mestizo or even Castizo (though millions are) - I acknowledge we shouldn't state most are Mestizo. But THEY DO have Amerindian ancestry. That is why I changed the article to say Many Argentines possess some Amerindain ancestry - I do not state they are Mestizo (Even though technically they are mixed, hence the word Mestizo. We could even state they have "a small amount".

If this isn't added, we are denying true facts, which most Wikipedians are against. This really isn't a very hard situation. Cali567 (talk) 20:48, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

See also, http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/03/genetics_the_mythbuster_the_ca.php Cali567 (talk) 21:00, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Lehoiberri, I know what a Mestizo is. Let's not use this word so that you will not be confused anymore. I'M SAYING many Argentines have some Amerindian ancestry - I know if I had 1/8 Amerindian ancestry it wouldn't make me Mestizo, but it does make me a descendant of Amerindians. No problem in saying that. Why is it a sin to put that SOME White Argentines or White Mexicans or White Brazilians have Amerindian ancestry? I'm not calling anyone Mestizo. Cali567 (talk) 21:17, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know about that photo, it seems odd that good photos (of the Argentine and Mexican girls) were taken out. Cali567 (talk) 04:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Request for mediation not accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Argentina. For the Mediation Committee, Ryan Postlethwaite 00:25, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management.
If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.

Asian H/L Ams

I rewrote it. Let me know if you think we should keep it, and likewise with the American Indian article. SamEV (talk) 21:26, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

---

I'm ambivalent. I was hoping you'd have a clearer opinion!

I've considered the possibility of creating one article about H/L Am racial demographics, and redirecting the Asian and the American Indian articles to it, because they're presently so insubstantial. The Black H/L Ams article has much more content and sources, I've noticed; but I've only taken a cursory look. Maybe after I edit it (one of these days) it too will turn out to have very little keep-able content and be a candidate for merging into that possible main article. I don't know. I've even thought of merging White H/L Ams into that possible main article. Do you think that's a good idea? SamEV (talk) 21:46, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

---

Oh yeah. Forgot about that. I'm not sure if I was thinking there should be a subsection and a separate article or what... Anyway, a subsection is the way to go! SamEV (talk) 22:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

---

Have a look at Hispanic and Latino Americans#Race. The last paragraph, and the last part of the one before it are brand new. And as agreed, I redirected the Asian H&LA and AIAN H&LA stubs to the section. SamEV (talk) 05:26, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

White Brazilian

I'm happy you also agreed that Ninguém's contributions were nonsense, and he seems to be obsessed with Portuguese people. He also erases sourced informations and included unsourced and pathetic ones. It's hard when we have to face this kind of users alone, because they feel free to destroy an article. But when other serious users get together, this is not possible anymore. Thank you. Opinoso (talk) 22:48, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Take a look at this:

[4]

Ninguém (talk) 02:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Even better, this one:

[http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:yOf8Z24jnjUJ:www.lhermitage.com.br/arqspdf/dissertacao_ricardors.pdf+%22pais+de+santo+brancos%22&hl=pt-BR&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=br&client=firefox-a IDENTIDADE NEGRA EM TERREIROS DE CANDOMBLÉ EM BELO HORIZONTE]

From it:

Aconteceu sim, não só comigo, como vários pais de santo brancos que eu

conheço, que eles acham que a gente não tem a força que eles tem, entendeu? O axé que eles têm por ter a pele escura, mas isso não tem nada a ver. Eu... nós já fomos muito discriminados, hoje não. Igual eu tô te falando, hoje tem muito pai-de-santo branco, tem muita mãe-de-santo branca, tem muita equetes, ogans, mais claro. Ce vê hoje em dia no candomblé, dependendo do candomblé, ce não vê preto. Eu acho que o branco já... já tomou muita conta, entendeu? E não é bom, seria bom se tivesse todo mundo junto. Não tem nada a ver a cor da pele não influi em nada, né? Eu acho que a fé é uma só. Todo mundo tá ali por um objetivo só. Mas ainda existe sim. Tem certos lugares por aí que eles ainda têm... têm um pouco de preconceito, sim. Ainda te olham assim meio de lado... será que tem mesmo, será que tem axé, que tem não sei que, mais isso cê

contorna.

Greetings, Ninguém (talk) 02:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Consensus Regarding Argentine-related Articles

I read all that was said to Fercho88 about leaving in the reliable references and facts about some White Argentines having Amerindian ancestry. Some people refer to a consensus, others say none was reached. Do you have any information about this?.. When exactly do we get a mediator? What do we do when others delete all the sourced information and claim "bias", "non-relevancy", and the like? Please leave a message. Thanks! Cali567 (talk) 05:26, 17 January 2009 (UTC)