Hunter2005

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Gregory Hill

Sorry for the overzealous revert earlier. Please take a look at Gregory Hill and Gregory Hill (BMX). I also discovered that there's a hill called Gregory Hill in Ireland that was being incorrectly pointed to, so it was a productive process in multiple ways.DenisMoskowitz 18:28, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Use of scanned photographs

I have to get back to the above issue at a later date. Meanwhile I would like to start adding images to my articles, specifically photographs to my articles on BMX athletes and personalities. I have tried to make heads or tails of the Wiki policies on the use of images but I do not claim to appreciate the nuances of copyright law, even when the descriptions are simplified by Wikipedia, so I will try to ask directly by giving the general descriptions and sources of the images I intend to use:

Scanned images from various BMX magazines, particularly those published in the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's. Attributed to the photographer. I of course plan to follow the recommended template:

File information

Description	BMX personality headshot/racing shot(s).
Source	BMX magazine like "BMX Action", "BMX Plus!", "Super BMX & Freestyle" (all three now defunct i.e. out of business)
Date	Generally the 1980's
Author	Staff photographers from the various magazines.
Permission (Reusing this file)	Unknown
Other versions	Unknown as far as I know.

I do not know what tag this would fall under.

If anyone here cannot help perhaps you can forward this to someone who can or tell me specifically where I can repost this letter. I will try to check in here as much as possible to see if I was answered. Hunter2005 19:36, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

You could probably get away with calling it "Fair Use" if there are no public-domain images of the riders available. DenisMoskowitz 18:24, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

BMX

Thanks for all your work on BMX and related articles. Although I'm sure you've seen it mentioned, I have to plug Wikipedia:WikiProject Cycling as it could use some more contributions not related to road racing. --Christopherlin 22:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Greg A. Hill

Hi Hunter2005, I just noticed your last edit to the above article, the edit summary of which was "restored injuries section. I believe it is relevant to an athlete's career, like when Mickey Mantle wrenched his knee early in his career". I'm a bit confused about this because I didn't remove this section, and this isn't what you readded. I removed the "Peccadilloes" section, because I used the text within the main article - it looked a bit lonely down there, and I think it works quite well in the context of the rest of the article (2nd para). I commented out the other sections because they aren't in use yet. That doesn't stop anyone uncommenting them if they have anything to add to these sections. Would you mind having another look, and consider reverting that edit, because we now have that text ("very out spoken, [..] had a bit of a temper on the track") twice on the page. All the best, and thanks for all your contributions, you seem to have a lot of great info about the sport. Regards. - Nzd (talk) 22:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Additional UBR Info

Hi Hunter, I don't know if this is how this works or not but it's the only way I can figure out to communicate with you. You're pretty accurate on most of your facts, I'm the one who changed the pro number 1s a few months ago. Kevin McCarthy was the #1 pro in 1980(I'm 99% sure it was 80), Scott Fifield was the #1 pro for 1982, I'm 100% sure of that. Scott never got anything out of it because UBR went out of business the day after the 82 Grands. Jess Guymon was the #1 pro cruiser for 82. I wrote and did photos for UBR scene the last year, and I was the #5 pro #3 Pro Cruiser in 81 and would have been 5 or 6 in both for 82 had they lasted. I have most or the UBR Scenes and rule books. I'm stoked that someone is taking the time to record this stuff, anything I can do to contribute I'd be glad to. I can probably fill in all the nat #1s with a few min. of looking through the papers. I own ubrbmx.com and am going to do an info site at some point in the next couple of years. I don't want to leave my email addy on here but I'm "RandyS" on vintagebmx.com, os-bmx.com, and bmxmuseum.com. Let me know what I can do, if I can't remember I have half a dozen other UBR regulars that I talk to regularly. Thanks, Randy

• Hi Randy! Any contributions that you can make please make them. The only sources I have are all my old BMX magazines ranging from the mid 1970's to about the early 1990's: BMX Action, BMX Plus!, SuperBMX, and a couple of Total BMXs I haven't found digging in my closet yet (I also have ABA Actions/American BMXer's from early 1982 to early 1992 and and incomplete collection of the ABA's Bicycles and Dirt but of course they didn't cover UBR.). They are by no means a complete collection, especially from the mid and late 1970's. I only have one Minicycle/BMX Action for example (June 1976). My earliest SuperBMX is from July 1981. My earliest BMX Plus! is from October of 1981. I have scans from the first 10 BMX Actions from 1976 to early 1978 (no hard copies) but missing many copies between 1978 to 1981. I have no issues of the mid 1970's BMX News, so I have large gaps in the early history of BMX during which time these smaller sanctioning bodies where covered almost as much as the NBA and ABA. The mags didn't cover (from what I have seen) "third and fourth party" sanctioning bodies like the UBR and the National Pedal Sport Association (NPSA) often after the ABA and NBL took off. BMX Plus! did a few articles in the early 80's, Super BMX did several NPSA articles during that same period, but they did not go into the background of those governing bodies in depth. However, as I indicated I don't have all the issues of the BMX publications that did have articles on them (and almost nothing of them are on the net since this was before the era of the World Wide Web), so anything you can provide in terms of operations of the UBR would be welcome like what where the history of the organization? Who where the vice presidents? Did the UBR disappear totally or was it brought by a larger sanctioning body (I *think* the NPSA was brought by the ABA for instance)? Who were the sidehack number ones? Scott Barrette & Craig "gOrk" Barrette supposed to have won the no.1 sidehack title in the UBR three times in a row, but Chuck & Kelly Croffoot supposed to have won in 1980 according to a BMX Action interview I have of them. If you have a color magazine scan of the UBR logo (in jpeg 600x700 dpi resolution would be nice) that would be appreciated so I can display it on the article page.

• Just fill in as many notes in history of the UBR as you see fit. Just be prepared to attribute them with footnotes like I have with a few things about how the UBR delt with Cheri Elliott from BMX Plus! Of course fill in the class winners for the years they won. Did it have a dedicated pro class during the first few years Or was the no.1(s) tile overall and pro/am for the first couple of years like how the NBA did it? I am not sure. When was its first year? The same for sidehack and the other classes. Did the UBR have a 16" pit bike class or was that the NPSA?

• One question: What was the day of its last Grand National? You said it closed up shop right away after it. The results are just as valid even if the racers never got to run their numbers. It would just like Scott Clark being the last pro no.1 for the NBA in 1981, so who were the last no.1s for 1982?

• This listing is as much yours as it is mine. I only ask that you follow the layout of the article page since it matches the entries of the others: NBL, ABA, NBA, NPSA.

• Incidentally I tried to go to www.ubrbmx.com but it seems to be a dead link.

• Oh, if you have anything on the history of National Pedal Sport Association would be greatly appreciated, especially no.1 winners you can fill in. Hunter2005 18:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

• Hunter, I have the majority of the BMX News and BX BiWeekly/BMX Weekly newspapers. The same people you got the BMX Action scans from have all the BMX News scanned and will have the CD available soon. I'll look over the stuff and fill in or correct anything I can. Much of it may be from memory, but I won't do anything I'm not 100% sure of. ubrbmx.com and a couple of other urls I have registered are just sitting for now, I learned on my first website which was the one that spawned vitagebmx.com not to put anything up again until it's ready to go. You're doing a hell of a job on this stuff. Randy

• • Thanks for your compliments Randy! I am looking forward to the release of the BMX News scans. Any specific time of when it will go on sale? Any plans to scan in BMX Plus!?

• • What I am doing is going through my four sets of BMX Mags repeatedly. Let's say I want to find out info on say three racers at a time. I will go through all my BMXA copies, then my BMXP! copies and then all my SBMX copies and then my Bicycles and Dirt copies to mine info on them. Then I would Wikify the info. Then I would select another three racers and do it again, also watch for any info of the three previous racers I missed the first time around. Then I would do it for another three. I have been at this now since about late January or so. I have must have gone through those four sets of mags about 20 times each in the past five or so months! It is tedious but I am in no rush. I foresee myself doing this for several more years. I haven't even started on the freestylers! I am an old/mid school ABA racer (1982-1989) so I have that bias. :-) But I fully intend to give them equal time. That brings up another thing. I didn't by any BMX mags after I officially retired in early 1992 except for one every two years to get a glimpse of what was happening, so I am deficient in info about most Mid school and new school happenings, so I need back issues of Snap! and BMX Plus! of those eras. Oh! and European racers and organizations I need info on and I don't have one foreign BMX mag from any era! I have a lot of work to do! It is a labor of love! :-) Hunter2005 15:56, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Sunriver y2k bug

I noticed you commented out my addition saying that they fixed it, but I still see the problem here. Assuming it was browser related, I looked again and see it ("February 9, 107") in SeaMonkey and Firefox 2.0 & 1.5, but it looks okay in IE 6. Interesting! —EncMstr 19:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• I guess it is because I use Internet Explorer ver. 6.2.80 that I see it as fixed with that browser. However, I also use Netscape Navigator Ver. 8.0.3.3 and it is NOT fixed. I will go back and undo my edit and add the explaination of the problem Hunter2005 19:58, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I guess there's a good illustration of still-broken Y2K software methodologies. Regards, —EncMstr 20:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Warwick Stevenson

Just wanted to say you've done some nice work on the Warwick Stevenson article. It was on my watchlist as I made some edits to it a while back while going through the cycling bio stubs, but I can't really add to the topic due to my limited knowledge! Also, when I designed the Template:Cyclist infobox, I did so from the eyes of a road fan. From your angle, do you think the infobox could be altered for a wider usage, or could any fields be better named perhaps? I'd be really interested in your thoughts! Regards, Severo 00:10, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

• Hello Severo and thanks for the compliments. Warwick Stevenson is not the only BMX racer I am writing up as you can tell from the BMX racing page in the "Legendary BMX racers" section. I was a BMX racer from 1982 to 1989 (officially retired in 1992) and I have a great many of the BMX magazines of the 1980's, a lot of the 1970's (which explains some of the gaps in the data from that era) and a few of the 1990-2000's (like I said I retired in 1989 so I only have a few BMX mags post 1992 (which I have even larger gaps in the data), but I think ebay can rectify that. :-) As to the info boxes I find them quite adequate for BMX. Any other details I can provide in the body of the article. The Info box is only for basic knowledge anyway. No need for the racer's exact hometown to be listed in the box for instance, just the nationality. If I think of anything I will let you know, but so far it is okay as it is. Hunter2005 20:38, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Regarding edits to Cheri Elliott

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Notability of Debbie Kalsow

A tag has been placed on Debbie Kalsow, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in Wikipedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you feel that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag) and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. --SquidSK ^(1MC•log) 00:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Sheesh! I am in the middle of Wikifying her right now. She, as the article says, was a BMX racer in the 1980s. This is in connection of notable BMX racers, stars of the sport.

Here are a couple of independent websites her name is mentioned in:

Catalog of BMX (google cache):

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:g9bVLPsLytoJ:www.catalogofbmx.com/usba.html+debbie+kalsow+bmx&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us

And the ABA website:

http://www.ababmx.com/index.php?page=default/champions&id=GRL

Look toward the bottom of the page and see "1982 Debbie Kalsow." Hunter2005 01:33, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Regarding edits to Gary Debacker

• I added a portion called "Major Influences" which Gary wanted on his page. I used direct quotes from him, noted by the quotation marks. You added "(→Major Influences -fixed blockquotes but they still need to be cited with a source; Don't worry, I haven't deleted anything although I will be fact checking with my copies of BMX magazines & net.)" I looked over the guidelines for posting quotes, most refer to quotes taken from published sources. Since these were quotes directly from the subject of the page and unlikely to be challenged, I used quotation marks. If there is a policy I've overlooked for this, please point me to it.

Snowybunting 13:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but your "quotes" are in violation on at least two fronts, and they are interrelated:

First, you must include a verifiable source for your quotes. Wikipedia cannot know the veracity of the quote without them. You must cite some published work, either in hardcopy print like a book, magazine, newspaper, pamphlet; or magazine on the subject like BMX Plus! or the now defunct BMX Action, Super BMX, Bicycles and Dirt etc., or on the Internet linked to a reliable source like a newspaper like say the New York Times or a website on the subject i.e. the ABA website as examples with a link to it. For all anyone knows you are making it up. I do not mean to insult you but Wikipedia doesn't know if you are or not without verifiable sources. So you must submit independently verifiable sources otherwise your quotes could and most likely be deleted. There are liability issues here besides issues of fairness.

Wikipedia:Citing sources

and:

Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Reliable_sources

The second thing you violated is the policy of No original research. That is even if your quote is accurate it will still not be allowed because again, it is not from an independent published source. Again, Wikipedia has no way of verifying if indeed Mr. Debecker requested the quotes to be in the article let alone if they are accurate or not. Even if he did authorize and request it as a fact, it is still not allowed because you researched it and it is a first hand or primary source, not a third party source like a book or internet website.

Wikipedia:No_original_research

Also, with all due respect to Mr. Debecker, this is not his personal page. To be clear, it is not "his" page in the sense that he has proprietary ownership of it. If Mr. Debecker wants certain things included in the article he is subject to the same rules of Wikipedia you and myself are under even if he is the subject of the article. Once again Wikipedia has no way of knowing if it is Mr. Debecker himself, whether he truly authorized it or not or even if the quotes are accurate. Again there are issues of liability and simple fair play. I know it is strange to have Mr. Debecker in essence verify his own life but he must point to independent published sources, just like myself, just like you.

Please read the links to Wikipedia policy on the subject of source verifiability.

Also refer to:

Wikipedia:Verifiability

Wikipedia:Reliable sources

Remember, If you don't provide verifiable sources for those quotes, they are subject to deletion by the editors of Wikipedia, or at the very least the "citation need" marker will remain permenantly. Hunter2005 15:02, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

• I understood I didn't have a verifiable quote, and even though I doubt anyone will challenge the veracity of his quotes, I will change that part of the entry. I also understand it is not Mr. Debacker's personal page, but it is a page about his BMX career and part of his BMX career was the people that influenced him. Again, I will try to word it so his quotes are somehow attributable to a "verfied" source.

No, you cannot word it "somehow" to attribute to a verified source. I has to be from a verified source and that source must be written. You saying that these people are influences in his life is not good enough. You are saying that someone said something, you have to be responsible and say where you got it and it must be from a source that can be checked either on the Web or a hardcopy publication. Again it has both the air of unprovability and original research. You can't say someone said this or someone said something like this without backing it up. Again, this in NO reflection on you, but your word is not good enough especially in quoting someone.

Also, why was the entire paged changed include what amounts to a standard boilerplate of BMX rider entries? "First Jr. Win", "First Senior Win", etc., do not apply to Gary's career, whch I why I left those parts out. Snowybunting 00:11, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

For standardization so it will match the other racer entries and any viewer can have a definite answer at a glance. They can see immediately if he has a National or INternatioal title or not. But that is not the only reason for it. I am considering putting in any second and third place placings in all the racers entries Olympic style. In other words if he came in say NBL National No.2 or 3 pro in 1993 for instance it might be listed. So Greg Hill's National No.2 placing in 1982 could be filed under ABA career pro tiltles section.

And having slots like "First Jr. Pro win" is appropriate because it is almost certain that he has a first win in "A" Pro (ABA) or "B" pro/superclass (NBL) in his career. They obviously apply to his career. There are exceptions like Brian Patterson never had a win in the Junior pro classes because he moved himself up to Senior pro after getting permission from Gene Roden, the Vice President of the ABA in 1982 IIRC after just one race in junior pro, which he did not win. That slot can be use to explain just that as in:

"First Junior Pro win: None. Brent had himself moved up to to the Senior level with permission from Gene Roden.<attribution>"

Just because a slot is empty doesn't mean it will not be filled eventually. If I find a reason as to why Gary Debacker did not have a Junior Pro win-assuming you are right and he didn't-I will put in an attributed explaination from a BMX magazine or website. I have already expanded and attributed your entry about Debecker's first national win on August 3, 1980 at the ABA Langsing Nationals. I found it and attributed it. If I don't attribute it directly with a footnote as I don't with a racer sponsors I indirectly attribute that section by giving the reader a way to find out like having him consult a BMX magazine. There is a good chance he will see the racer in the sponsor's uniform in a picture in race coverage or a sponsor's advertisement or his sponsor is mentioned in race coverage. If it is espeicially hard to find then I would attribute it directly. That is what I intend to do to the other entries or lack of them until I get the data from BMX magazines or other media. You have to do the same especially with quotes or attributing someone saying something about someone. Oh, and Gary had to have had a "First Senior Pro win". It is a stat to be included. Hunter2005 01:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

• ""(8,345 bytes) (Removed 3rd place in '88 FIAC WC according to 12/88 BMX Plus! p46 results James Morris UK was 3rd; Added titles) ""

I can't remember why the 3rd place in the worlds was included, but you removed it erroneously. James Morris was in the 12 year old division, Gary was in the 14 year old division.Snowybunting (talk) 21:34, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

		The Original Barnstar
		For all your edits in BMX-related articles! SeveroTC 22:29, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

World champs

Hi. Not sure how much work you do on race meetings, but I've just done a quick page for the 2007 UCI BMX World Championships. Just thought I'd give you a heads up! Severo^TC 14:50, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks for the heads up and I will be adding her to the list of BMX racers on the BMX racing page. I don't do anything on actual racing events simply I have my hands full with everything else. I do plan on getting to them sometime next year. Also thanks for the reward! I had completely forgot about expressing my appreciation for it before. Thanks again. Hunter2005 17:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Moonlight (TV series)

Have they said that Josef Konstantin was born in 1599? The last episode of Moonlight only said he was four in 1603 which fits equally well with a birth year of 1598 or 1599 (depending on whether he turned four in 1603, or was already four at the beginning of the year). The ambiguity is why I worded it the way I did. —MJBurrage • TALK • 17:52, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe you are right and I have changed it back. Hunter2005 18:49, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

A friendly reminder

		Edit summary reminder
		Hello. I noticed that your edit to RMS Queen Elizabeth 2 did not include an edit summary. Please remember to use one for every edit, even minor ones. You can enable the wiki software to prompt you for one before making an edit by setting your user preferences (under Editing) to "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary". Thanks, -MBK004 01:33, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

QV, QM2 and the QE2

Hello, Hunter.

First off, I realise a journalist stated this will be the only time the three Cunard Queens will ever meet, but that's still a prediction, which goes counter to Wikipeida's policies on such assertions.

The information about the QE2's impending retirement to Dubai, of course, rests on the inclusion of the above. Besides that, however, what you insert regarding this is much too detailed for an article about a completely different ship.

If some reliable reference can be found that states this was Cunard's "changing of the guard," as you put it, then, by all means, let's include this. However, until then, I think speculations should stay out of the articles. --G2bambino (talk) 23:59, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Cunard did say so on its site:

"This is the first-time in Cunard’s 168-year history that three Queens have been in service at the same time and with QE2 retiring in November 2008 will be the only time they will be together."

http://www.cunard.com/rendezvous/

Hunter2005 (talk) 00:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I see that now. But, it's still a prediction, and not necessarily a fact; I'm reminded of Norwegian Cruise Line's hyped up "final sailing of the Norway" in 2001, after which the ship served NCL for another four years. I've since added that Cunard purports this to be the only meeting of the three ships, which, I think, makes clear any future meetings aren't an absolute impossibility. --G2bambino (talk) 00:33, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Listen, you asked for official backup; I found it; you got it. If a official source, the one in the know isn't good enough then nothing is. You should had not mentioned wanting official back up if you didn't see it as relevant anyway.Hunter2005 (talk) 00:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Cheers for your help, Hunter. Much appreciated. --G2bambino (talk) 15:52, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

New Amsterdam

Hunter,
Can you give a link for the WWII info you added, I can't find it on the FOX website. Thanks for the details, —MJBurrage^(T•C) 14:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

It is directly from what I saw in the March 6, 2008 episode. When Amsterdam visits Lily in the maternity ward after she had her baby, there was a shot of his shoulder from the side. On it was a patch a big red "1". I knew the patch and inferred that was his unit. I should and left a attribution saying it was directly from the episode.Hunter2005 (talk) 14:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Great catch on the should patch, I missed that. What about the D-Day and shell/deafness details? —MJBurrage^(T•C) 22:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Amsterdam mentioned his service to his partner, detective Eva Marquez in the pilot episode. Of course she just thought he was kidding. Hunter2005 (talk) 23:12, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again, they added that line recently, in the pre-air version, there is a third detective with them and he just says he can read lips, no other explanation. —MJBurrage^(T•C) 00:10, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

redlinks

Please don't add redlinks to articles. The English encyclopedia has 6,827,782 articles, this process is no longer important. Please Write the Article First. Wikipedia is optimized for readers over editors, unreferenced redlinks are unhelpful to readers. Red link articles do not add content or meaning to the encyclopedia--Hu12 (talk) 10:32, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Shanaze Reade

Can you please talk to me before undoing all my hard work!? Thanks. Thaf (talk) 10:09, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Can you please talk to me before you undo mine? If you check the history of the page most of what has been done is my work also I didn't undo all of your work. I incorporated much of it. I am trying to make a comprehensive history of Reade's career, including her track cycling career most of which is also minde. Because some of the so called empty spaces are empty doesn't mean they will stay empty.Hunter2005 (talk) 13:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I did not undo any of your work, if you check you will see that it was actually other users who mainly deleted your empty sections. I was merely formatting the track section as that is the sport I'm familiar with, and formatting the references to comply with wiki standards.

Although as you mention that point, I had tried to discuss it on her talk page but didn't want to take any action without discussing it first; but as I didn't get a response... If you read up on style guides you will see though that lists and empty sections are not recomended, it is supposed to be an article, which means paragraphs not bullet points. Many of the sections you include are also irrelevant, what is the point of telling us that she hasn't appeared on such and such a magazine because it was defunct before her career started!? We should all assume she hasn't appeared on any unless the article states otherwise. You article also seems to be particularily geared towards a BMX audience with it being in list format, it doesnt mean anything to the general public, it should be that anyone can read it and technical terms they dont understand should have a link to an article about it so they can read more in order to understand.Thaf (talk) 13:25, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I will try to work with you on this. Yes most of the article is geared toward BMX but that is largely her career. She has been racing BMX for ten years compared to her two in Veleodrome track, so it stands to reason.... I was the one who included her track racing as well, and yes a BMX and track audience as well as the general public could see were she didn't appear on magazines and if she did or did not win any championships. I don't want people to assume. I wanted this to be a detailed examination of her career, a reference so they don't go I wonder if she had such and such title or appeared in such and such magazine. Those empty spaces are for future expansion. I myself are getting the magazines she has appeared in. I also invite those in the know, fellow BMX racers to fill in the gaps. As I propose I will not interfere with most of your changes but I do insist on having the sanctioning body titles and magazine article and cover sections as well as the injury sections. The peccadillo section is for any quirks in her personality or her racing style, which is why I included them.13:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, you misunderstood me. What I meant was, that people who do not follow BMX should be able to understand the article. I wasn't criticizing the content. But perhaps the lists should be in addition to the article and not practically the sole conent of the BMX section. Thaf (talk) 13:42, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Again, sorry, I did not mean to delete the section but as you had deleted a load of reference formatting at the same time last time I wansn't going to spend another hour re-formatting them so just undid it...Thaf (talk) 13:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

As I said I want to work with you on this but I want this to be a reflection of BMX history as well. As I said before, If the article is BMX heavy, it is because Reade has been a BMX racer for 10 years but has competed for only 1 year for track cycling. Yes, I want the person interested in BMX racing to have a detailed source for her career to go to. Many sports wiki pages go into GREAT detail of the sports history and relevant to our discussion the individual participants. They are virtual one stop source for the participant's career. I want the same for BMX and for Ms. Reade and her track cycling career. Because many of the BMX magazines are unavailable and few detailed references concerning the history of BMX and its participants are available, particularly detailed data on individual participant, I wanted this to be a as well, that is why I include seemingly empty sections. They will be filled in the future by me or hopefully by others who can fill in the data If the general public finds it irrelevant, they are free to do so. No harm no foul. But a person with an interest in the subject beyond Ms. Reade's Olympic Career I want that person to have a detailed and comprehensive article on her career. They will want it. It would be just like if you look up say baseball's Mickey Mantle you get a lot of data. I want the same for BMX participants and fans. Again, if the general public finds it unnecessary that is their prerogative, they will simply discard it, but someone who has a previous interest in the sport and wants to find out the history of that athlete this article will be a good detailed source of her history in BMX and Track Cycling. That is why I started this article myself, there was no history of the Sport in general or the participants in particular like there is for American football or Baseball players for example so I expanded it greatly and added so-called irrelevant data. Most will find it unfamiliar but some will not. Either way the reader will have the data. It will be up to them if they want the data or not, they will at least have that option. I am in this for the long haul. I've been at it for over two years now and intend to add data as I go along. This is an encyclopedia after all and the advantage of wikipedia unlike hard copy encyclopedias is that there is almost no limit to the information you can add to it, so someone out there would probably find it useful that she never had a certain magazine cover of the defunct Bicycle Motocross News or didn't have any titles with the American Bicycle Association, they wouldn't have to assume. Hunter2005 (talk) 14:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I have left a lengthy note for you on Talk:Shanaze_Reade. Neıl ☄ 09:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Well done

Awarded to Hunter for hard work on 2008 Olympics BMX cycling articles. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:13, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I greatly appreiciate it. It is a labor of love. Hunter2005 (talk) 07:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk pages

Could you please respond to my messages at Jill Kintner & Cheri Elliott. Thanks. Thaf (talk) 08:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Hunter, this is the same issue we went through on the Shanaze Reade article. We do not list things people have not accomplished. Please, I thought you had learned this by now. Thaf spent a lot of time cleaning up the articles and formatting them in line with Wikipedia's manual of style, and your reverting those edits isn't very helpful. Particularly as you revert the cleanup, then improve the article. Most of your edits are excellent, but there is no need to revert anyone else first before resuming editing. Thaf knows what he is doing, and his edits tend to improve the article, particularly as they remove all the empty sections. Neıl ☄ 08:41, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

heavens sakes! Did you look at the page before you "corrected" them? I had corrected most of the issues you all had complained about! I was converting to tables. I relabeled some sections! I even started to put most of the text in prose. Could you meat me halfway as I make the changes. So far the only thing that is still an issue is the empty sections which I have been filling. I am bringing the pages to wiki standards. I just need time. Now, if you go back to the cheri Elliot and kintner pages and see what I did then you would understand. There were only a few empty section that were left. Now, if you will let me I will edit out those few empty sections that were left, particularly the Kintner article. That is undeniable. Now please examine my changes before you make yours. I respectfly request that you at least alllow me to restore the tables which I have seen elsewhere so are legit manual of stlye. Ironically, I adapted them form the Olympic BMX pages. User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] (talk) 10:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

The changes you have made to Jill Kintner as of this writing are much better - thank you. Lists of things people have not done are never relevant to an article, though. Neıl ☄ 11:30, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes only a listing is the most effective way of itemizing one's accomplishments because you can't weave all of them into prose with making it seemed loaded down. How can you give in detail the say 10 times on ten different occasions how a person was injured in detail without making it awkward? My inspiration regarding BMX racer articles where the baseball statistics and actor's filmography. Also, they are not island unto themselves, that is why I included sanctioning bodies in which they never one any titles because both a BMXer or just a person curious about the subject may want to know, so I link to all aspects of the BMX portal if possible. And a person may want to know not only if they had a cover of a certain magazine but what magazines that they didn't have so the researcher browsing the page could if possible have a definite answer, so in my view, a category with "*None" in it is relevant.Hunter2005 (talk) 18:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Take a look at the info boxes of these two baseball players: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_Boggs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Cater

The large tables in which I list the racer's first race, first pro race, first race bike, first senior pro race, when they were sponsored by so and so, the specific dates of that sponsorship. Are int he same vain as baseball statistics. I also listed (which I also intend to put in tables if I can find the right format for the table) what titles with had with a sanctioning body, what titles they did not have with a sanctioning body etc. again I view in the same vain as statistics. They could be mentioned in the prose, but they are also listed in table form so I believe my putting the statistics in table form is a legitimate use of format. I don't solely rely on the info boxes because there maybe more detail about say a certain sponsor that may not fit int the small info box or fit comfortable in the prose without making it looking like a patchwork of facts masquerading as prose, which is I believe much worse. Again, I am making an effort to bring the pages more into wikiformat I ask for forbearance. Hunter2005 (talk) 18:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

The infoboxes on the baseballers are great, as are the ones you have been putting for the BMX racers. It's the titles they did not have that I think is the main point of contention; these aren't needed. Neıl ☄ 10:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

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Image removal

The image in Stu Thomsen was removed because, since the subject is still alive, it is reasonable to expect that a free-licensed image could be found or made. --Carnildo (talk) 08:12, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, if that be the case then simplify the licensing to simply reflect that if the subject is alive then only free license images made of the subject by you, the subject him/herself, or a third party. No more of the confusing "legalese" of fair use if instance of the application of fair use of a living person's image is in all practical purposes is nil (in this case the guy isn't famous outside of BMX circles). It will only serve to piss people off otherwise, especially if no explanation is given forehand as to why it is removed. 09:02, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

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Replaceable fair use Image:Mike Poulson BW headshot SBMXF Jan85V12N1p5.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Replaceable fair use Image:Brian Patterson color headshot BAD May-June83V1N9p48.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Replaceable fair use Image:Gary Ellis color headshot1 BMXP Dec96V19N12p23 ODI advert.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Replaceable fair use Image:Pete Loncarevich-color headshot Subscrip-adv BMXP6-87p90 jpg.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Replaceable fair use Image:Eric Rupe color headshot subscrip ad BMXP 6 87p90.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Replaceable fair use Image:Clint Miller BW headshot BMXP6 82p30.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Replaceable fair use Image:John Purse BMX Plus! July 1998 pg92.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Replaceable fair use Image:Mike Miranda color headshot 8-84 super bmx.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Replaceable fair use Image:Harry Leary Fall 1982 BMXP-April83p19.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Replaceable fair use Image:Tommy Brackens color headshot BMXA July 1986.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Original research

Regarding this edit summary: Having seen the shows is not adequate. You need to be able to attribute it to a reliable source linking speciesism with these shows. If you're the one who made the connection that means it is inadmissible. The same goes for all Wikipedia editors. If you don't have a source I'll remove the section. Gabbe (talk) 19:55, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:NBL_LOGO_NEW_1998a.jpg

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox supplemental cyclist

Template:Infobox supplemental cyclist has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Severo^TC 08:57, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Additions to Chandra Levy

Hello, your additions to Chandra Levy do contain some worthwhile information. However, though the source has been cited, the text will have to be rewritten in summary style (see also WP:PARAPHRASE). Material that has been cut and paste directly from such sources is still a copyright violation that is subject to removal. KimChee (talk) 23:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the updates to your additions. I further edited it down for summary style to match the weight of testimony from other witnesses in the trial. As the content of Robert Levy's testimony is very relevant to Gary Condit, I suggest that you also add this to the last paragraph of Post-politics section of that article. Cheers. KimChee (talk) 13:24, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:OLD ABA LOGO1 Color BAD 12-83 pg 39.jpg

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