Talk:Yonsei (Japanese diaspora)

Restoring initial article name

This article should be named Yonsei in the same simple manner as its corollary articles -- Issei, Nisei and Sansei. The original name should be restored as the simplest and best solution to unnecessary problems which flow from a series of unhelpful article moves.

History

FIRST, the article was arbitrarily moved and re-named without discussion or opportunity for comment and consensus discussion:

• 20:37, 6 November 2008 Caspian blue moved Yonsei to Yonsei (Japanese term): Making a dab page. This is NOT a well-known PRIMARY topic in English unlike "nisei" and "sansei" found in dictionaries and web search.)

This user's limited grasp of English usage renders this conclusory argument suspect; but in order to respond effectively to this casually disruptive edit required research in order to rebut its demonstrably insupportable claim -- See below.

SECOND, the presumptively necessary disambiguation was edited to eliminate specious links:

• 01:47, 8 November 2008 Kusunose attempted a disambiguation page cleanup: rm {{wiktionary|Yonsei}}, entry does not exist; rm entry about Korean honorific, a dic def; rm piping; rm entires with no links; single blue link per line)

THIRD, the misnamed Yonsei (Japanese term) was further modified without discussion or opportunity for comment and consensus discussion -- moved again to Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei):

• 06:05, 10 Novemer 2008 DA19 created (redirect from Yonsei (Japanese term): while the origins of Nikkei is Japanese, the North American and Latin American descendants of Japanese immigrants are the primary users of what is a Nikkei term.)

Modest proposal

The article's name needs be the subject of reasoned discussion; and a consensus decision needs to be reached in due course. There disambiguation page was nothing but a contrived gambit, unsupported by research or reference citations. --Tenmei (talk) 08:42, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Research

Google Books provides ample evidence to refute the following edit summary:

• 20:37, 6 November 2008 Caspian blue moved Yonsei to Yonsei (Japanese term): Making a dab page. This is NOT a well-known PRIMARY topic in English unlike "nisei" and "sansei" found in dictionaries and web search.) scan us

Contrary to Caspian blue's thin conclusory statement, the term Yonsei is readily found in a web search. In fact, the fully developed status of the article at the time it was moved are inconsistent with this edit summary. Moreover, at the time Caspian blue renamed this article, the support documented in "Notes" and "References" should have precluded any move without an opportunity for discussion; and in any event, these too are inconsistent with the edit summary.

As can be seen below, the term Yonsei can be found in literature describing a number of immigrant populations, e.g.,

English language culture

• American Yonsei; Hawaiian Yonsei
  • Asakawa, Gil. (2004). Being Japanese American: A JA Sourcebook for Nikkei, Happa -- & Their Friends. Berkeley, California: Stone Bridge Press. 10-ISBN 188065685X; 13-ISBN 9781880656853; OCLC 54694568
  • Koskof, Ellen. (2005). Music Cultures in the United States: An Introduction. London: Routledge. 10-ISBN 0-415-96588-8; 13-ISBN 978-0-415-96588-0
  • Võ, Linda Trinh and Rick Bonus. (2002). Contemporary Asian American Communities: Intersections and Divergences. Philadelphia: Temple University Press. 10-ISBN 1-566-39938-6; 13-ISBN 978-1-566-39938-8

• Canadian Yonsei
  • Agnew, Vijay. (2005). Diaspora, Memory and Identity: A Search for Home. Toronto: University of Toronto Press. 10-ISBN 0-802-09374-4; 13-ISBN 978-0-802-09374-5
  • Anderson, Jim, Maureen Kendrick, Theresa Rogers and Suzanne Smythe. (2005). Portraits of Literacy Across Families, Communities, and Schools: Intersections and Tensions. London: Routledge. 10-ISBN 0-805-84859-2; 13-ISBN 978-0-805-84859-5
  • Hajdukowski-Ahmed, Maroussia, Nazilla Khanlou and Helene Moussa. (2008). Not Born a Refugee Woman: Contesting Identities, Rethinking Practices. New York: Berghahn Books. 10-ISBN 1-845-45497-9; 13-ISBN 978-1-845-45497-5 OCLC 180755168

Portuguese language culture

• Brazilian Yonsei
  • De Carvalho, Daniella. (2002). Migrants and Identity in Japan and Brazil: The Nikkeijin. London: Routledge. 10-ISBN 0-700-71705-6; 13-ISBN 978-0-700-71705-7
  • Lesser, Jeffrey. (2007). A Discontented Diaspora: Japanese Brazilians and the Meanings of Ethnic Militancy, 1960-1980. Durham: Duke University Press. 10-ISBN 082234081X; 13-ISBN 9780822340812

Spanish language culture

• Peruvian Yonsei
  • Hirabayashi, Lane Ryo and Akemi Kikumura-Yano. (2002). New Worlds, New Lives: Globalization and People of Japanese Descent in the Americas and from Latin America in Japan. Stanford: Stanford University Press. 10-ISBN 0-804-74462-9: 13-ISBN 978-0-804-74462-1
  • Masterson, Daniel M and Sayaka Funada-Classen. (2003). The Japanese in Latin America. Urbana: University of Illinois Press. 10-ISBN 0-252-07144-1; 13-ISBN 978-0-252-07144-7

Not all communities of Japanese descent apply generational parsing language like Issei, Nisei, Sansei, Yonsei; but the usage is sufficiently prevalent to be considered notable in this Wikipedia context.

Moreover, the specious claim that the article needed to be renamed, like the unnecessary creation of a disambiguation page, is difficult to justify.

A review of the edit histories will reveal that articles named Yonsei and Yonsei University co-existed without apparent confusion until Caspian blue decided to create a fuss. The so-called problem was pushed forward with the creation of an odd redirect which is unsupported by reference sources or citations. The so-called Yonsei Severance Hospital redirect was created after the disambiguation page -- an after-thought rather than a causation. Severance Hospital has no cited references, but there is a link to the hospital's website. However, it does not support the need for this newly created name -- and, in fact, the sequence of edits suggests the redirect was only created in order to populate the list on the dab page -- much like the other unexplainable list elements which were removed by Kusunose.

This was an example of over-reaching; but that is a matter for others to address. Our only concern in this thread is to restore the plainest, most direct name for this article -- that is, Yonsei. --Tenmei (talk) 05:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Yonsei#Primary topic.

Talk:Yonsei#Primary Topic. Read this tread and respond to the Talk:Yonsei#Primary topic and research. Why are you so quite about the thread" unlike your busy activities? You invited Taemyr for the matter. I did not insert "BOGUS"ness unlike you (bogus interwikis, vain poetry, etc). So according to your logic, Yonsei should redirect to Yonsei University because of its dominant usages in English web search/book/scholar. The result shows poor finding on Yonsei generation. Besides, one of your attempt like this is called "LOL". --Caspian blue 15:15, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Cite problem

I was working on regularizing the cites in this article (there is a mix of citation styles), but I ran across a problem. The ref named "Okamura-126" is used in two places in the article; the {{cite book}} page parameter says "page=126", but the URL used brings up page 138. I'm guessing that one of the refs actually means to refer to page 126 and the other to 138. Could someone please fix this? -- Boracay Bill (talk) 22:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for the mix-ups, Bill. I tried fixing them. Similar page numbers and two books by the same author made it a little tricky... And the stylistic citation differences remain. Dekkappai (talk) 23:15, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Hawaiian yonsei

This specific group is the subject of Takahata's chapter in Okamura's The Japanese American Contemporary Experience in Hawaii. --Tenmei (talk) 18:23, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

A contrived confrontation is tawdry in this context, and the attempt to introduce the term "dishonest" is heedlessly inflammatory -- see text below. Caspian blue's extravagant claims in this instance are intentionally provocative; but in the absence of any attempt to engage in a talk page discussion, this contrived excuse for a pointless tempest-in-a-teapot is revealed for what it is. Poor reasoning .... Bad form .... An attempt to create a conflict for no other reason that to have something to fight about? This is demonstrably unhelpful. --Tenmei (talk) 18:42, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

3RR warning for Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei)

This posting was moved from User talk:Tenmei.

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei). Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Edit warring over the likely deleted or merged article is not worthy, so I let the article with your POV pushing. Your personal attacks to HongQiGong and me along with your dishonest edits are being recorded to the history. Good luck!--Caspian blue 18:21, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Tenmei's Dishonesty

http://books.google.com/books?id=mmqx_G9qzScC&pg=PA139&dq=yonsei#PPA125,M1

“ Japanese Americans do not have to become actively engaged in the formation of their identity because of the dominant social status they hold in Hawaii. ”

The Hawaiian Yonsei do not have to become actively engaged in the formation of their identity because of the dominant social status they hold in Hawaii. - This is your edit. So tell me, Tenmei (talk · contribs), where is "Hawaiian Yonsei" mentioned in the 125 page of Okamura's book to back up your personal attacks to Hong and me. Follow WP:V and WP:CITE and WP:CIVIL.

1. 2008-11-15T18:18:11 Tenmei (Undid revision 251995147 by Caspian blue (talk)go to Talk page -- don't climb out on this limb) personal attack"
2. 2008-11-15T18:13:56 Caspian blue (rv by Tenmei Still Tenmei's dishonest edit with additional personal attack. READ the 125 page of Okamura's book.)
3. 2008-11-15T18:10:59 Tenmei (Undid revision 251993471 by Caspian blue (talk)utterly incorrect edit + "dishonest" is personal attack) personal attack and dishonest labeling"
4. 2008-11-15T18:03:06 Caspian blue (rv by Tenmei (talk) Dishonest labeling with POV pushing. READ the in-line source. There is NO mention about "Hawaian yonsei") (undo)
5. 2008-11-15T17:46:12 Tenmei (Undid revision 251979638 by HongQiGong (talk)over-reaching, invalid POV edit -- inconsistent with WP:V) - personal attack and dishonest labeling"
6. 2008-11-15T16:32:19 HongQiGong (→American Yonsei: Source does not indicate this is unique to the yonsei generation.)

--Caspian blue 18:32, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Three appropriate responses to this meaningless gambit are:

• (a). You're too clever by half.
• (b). Don't be cute.
• (c). Over-reaching.

Although derision is my knee-jerk response, the fact-of-the-matter is that gratitude and relief is what I really feel. You've selected a most excellent Rubicon.

It will be up to others to manage the alchemy which turns this dross into something which helps improve the quality of Wikipedia as a whole. --Tenmei (talk) 18:52, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

No Tenmei. The appropriate response is to point out that Okamura's book is specifically about people in Hawaii. That is what makes the Yonsei he is writing about Hawaiian. Taemyr (talk) 19:18, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Your point is worth considering, of course. I am grateful that you took the time to offer a potentially ameliorating perspective; but I don't see how the reasonable alternative you propose could have been constructive?

In the very brief response time allowed, I posted the underpinnings of your very point -- the arguable beginning of an attempt to re-channel feigned indigation into a calm, rational analysis. In contrast, Caspian blue had already bounded ahead into confrontational bluster. It's not unfair to perceive an almost gleeful "gotcha"-kind-of-satisfaction in the provocative rhetoric.

Nevertheless, I don't want to fail to thank you again for your generous attempt to help me find a better way forward. I will try to learn to do better because of your advice. --Tenmei (talk) 20:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• Tenmei (talk · contribs), no more disruption and no more personal attack. However, you can't stop being yourself. So where is the "Hawaiian Yonsei" in the page? You must present it instead of your usual rambling with irrelevant derivations. So insisting on putting the unreferenced "Hawaiian Yonsei" with the dishonest labeling and personal attack to the opponents are one of your tactics to avoid WP:Plagiarism? If so, that is quite a fastest way to go to more your usual disruption: LOL, gleeful "gotcha"? So why did you do that?--Caspian blue 15:06, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Caspian, page 125 is the beginning of the chapter in which Okamura treats the development of a cultural ethnicity of the Nikkei. In the chapter he treats different generations and make references to his own study of the Yonsei. The book is specifically about ethnicity on Hawaii so it is not about Japanese Americans in general. Taemyr (talk) 17:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, "Hawaiian Yonsei" is still a term unmentioned in the page. The dishonest labeling is about his "false" accusations to HongQiGong and my edits. Tenmei should have not copied the same passage like that and should have written otherwise. The inline citation states about a character of Japanese American in general. --Caspian blue 17:42, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The fact that they are from Hawaii makes them Hawaiian. The inline citation is from a book devoted to Hawaii, it makes no claim about mainland America what so ever. Taemyr (talk) 18:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

So where is the "Hawaiian yonsei" mentioned in the page regarding the "introduction" of Japanese Americans in Hawaii? Hawaii is a part of the U.S and you claim that Hawaiian is not Japanese American? -_-;; We're talking about the "specific" content with "the specific page" in the book. sticking to the source should be accused of "POV pushing" and inconsistent with WP:V by Tenmei? I don't think so. --Caspian blue 19:05, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

This is an illustrative Euler diagram as used in higher mathematics set theory.

Assume the following:
* Animal represents * "American Yonsei"
* 4-legs represents * "Hawaiian Yonsei"

Does this diagram help clarify the relationships identified in Okamura's book? --Tenmei (talk) 22:17, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

No, I do not claim that Hawaiian yonsei are not Japanese American. Rather the opposite, when Okamura talks about Japanese American in Hawaii he is specifically talking about Hawaiians. Not Japanese Americans in general. I think Tenmei's accusations of dishonesty stems from the fact that the source does support the statement he gives. Also note that there are two pages referred by inline citations in the article. Although IMO it would be better to refer the chapter instead. Taemyr (talk) 19:20, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

NOTE: The citations which specifically referred to the author and title of this specific chapter were added by Dekkappai in a prophylactic attempt to avoid precisely this problem -- see diff; and HongQiGong removed them -- see diff. --Tenmei (talk) 22:17, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Adjectives which lack nuance and precision

Wikipedia may contain content that some readers consider objectionable or offensive ... [and d]iscussion of potentially objectionable content should not focus on its offensiveness, but on whether it is appropriate to include in a given article.

Taemyr --Please allow me to dissent mildly from one phrase in your post above -- "Tenmei's accusations of dishonesty." In my view, the term "dishonesty" is not a word to be used too lightly, too casually, too heedlessly. I consider the term "dishonest" as objectionable in this talk page thread; and regardless of my personal views, the term does have high potential for causing offence. I do understand, as explained at WP:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not censored, which means:

Wikipedia may contain content that some readers consider objectionable or offensive .... Discussion of potentially objectionable content should not focus on its offensiveness, but on whether it is appropriate to include in a given article.

I just want the responsibility for this single adjective to be entirely attributed to Caspian blue -- not me.

Please note the time sequence of postings:

• 1. 18:21, 15 November 2008 -- diff: Caspian blue posted another inexplicable "warning" on my talk page

As I always do, I try moving this inflammatory message to the relevant talk page where the words and tone can assessed in context; however, the attempt is blocked by an unexpected edit conflict.

• 2. 18:32, 15 November 2008 -- diff: Caspian blue created the "Tenmei's Dishonesty" section plus its associated prose.
• 3. 18:42, 15 November 2008 - diff: I add one sentence to the explanatory paragraph which accompanied moved "warning." It seemed reasonable to as acknowledgment of what had been posted below during the edit conflict. My analysis presents the word "dishonest" as provocative -- not as a helpful gesture. For redundant emphasis, I re-post the one sentence I added at this time:

A contrived confrontation is tawdry in this context, and the attempt to introduce the term "dishonest" is heedlessly inflammatory -- see text below. [emphasis added]

I can see how reading from top to bottom suggests that I was the one to introduce this unhelpful conclusory adjective -- "dishonest" ..., and I understand that I need to be especially vigilant in avoiding even the appearance of impropriety when dealing with difficult situations.

I want to assert here that the term "dishonest" is not one of the words I use as a general rule. Think about what you know of my writing style. For better or for worse, my writing does have a distinctive quality. I would argue that the term "dishonest" is not a nuanced concept, and I just don't use words that are so flat, dull, dim.

Taemyr -- I think you will agree that in this Wikipedia context, the word "dishonest" reflects poorly on whoever uses it -- hence the quotation marks which set it off as outside my conventional vocabulary. I would regret it if you or anyone else were to mistakenly believe that I had been the one who first introduced this word on this page.

Yes, I do know that I have have a long way to go as I continue to learn "the hard way" from all sorts of avoidable mistakes, but I don't own this one. --Tenmei (talk) 22:17, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

A simple "I have not called anyone Dishonest" would have sufficed. My appologies, you are correct. Taemyr (talk) 00:19, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Taemyr --For you, yes, a very short comment would have been enough; but there were other potential readers I had in mind as well. Anything addressed to Caspian blue directly is likely to be dismissed with derision a priori -- e.g., see below at Talk:Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei)#Tenmei hear the advice. At the same time, there was a good chance that a post which was directly addressed to you would be considered more carefully. By posting the analysis here and by specifically addressing my comments to you, it was a good bet that Caspian blue and others might give the ideas some thought? ...with constructive consequences?

I used this opportunity to begin working through the process by which I will eventually come to parse the distinctions between what is and is not to be construed as "personal attack."

At present, I have reached no useful conclusions beyond these two:

• 1. Following your good advice: I must never say, "You are offensive;" but I may express the same thought in other words -- as in , "You have offended me."
• 2. It makes sense to use the Venn diagrams as a way forward in complicated circumstances.

This isn't much of a start, but there you have it. --Tenmei (talk) 17:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

What Wikipedia is NOT

Caspian blue -- The turn this thread has taken is troubling.

Anyone would be forced to wonder how your escalating rhetoric could be somehow construed as constructive or helpful. Your contributions to this thread become an object lesson in the wrong way to go; and Taemyr's terse posting shows the exact opposite. Fortuitously, Taemyr has the maturity and sense of perspective to have recognized that "the appropriate response is to point out that Okamura's book is specifically about people in Hawaii. That is what makes the Yonsei he is writing about Hawaiian." I was grateful for that very useful posting, and now I'm pleased to re-iterate the same thoughts as if they were mine.

With all due respect, you need to re-visit Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia in not a battlefield, which explains in part:

Wikipedia is not a place to hold grudges, import personal conflicts, or nurture hatred or fear. Making personal battles out of Wikipedia discussions goes directly against our policies and goals.

In this context, I suspect that an objective observer would likely encourage you to re-think some of your theories about how best to enhance the quality of this or any other article. --Tenmei (talk) 22:17, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Tenmei, hear the advice

So, Tenmei (talk · contribs), this is how you manage talk pages into WP:SOAPBOX and bloody WP:BATTLEFIELD filled with your ramblings. Nice job, indeed, as always. You constantly reaffirm yourself to people as to "who" you are "how" you behave with your "show". Your behavioral patterns including your way of personal attacks were already perceived by your previous two WP:Hoax AFDs, your forum shoppings and ANI report. Therefore, why don't you behave in some new and fresh way like "FOCUS a discussion on subjects" and "Be civil". If you can not stop being yourself, well enjoy your never-ending story in your imagination in which you, self-claimed hero constantly fight against your nemesis to be revenged. Hmmm... what can't I say, you're just Tenmei. :D--Caspian blue 22:54, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Caspian blue -- This edit seems too familiar, characteristic -- diff? I don't see how it can be construed as a useful first step towards something better?

• 1. 15:27, 10 Nov: Caspian blue stakes out a position which involves no research, no source citation, no thought and little time -- proposing AfD "because this article is absolutely "redundant", the content is just copy/paste other related articles:Isei, Nisei, Sansei. There is no difference from them except the numbering" ... diff
• 2. 05:02, 11 Nov: Tenmei responds with specific research, serial source citations and no-small investment of thought and time.
• 3. Caspian blue adds no constructive contribution, no acknowledgement of demonstrable attempt to address presumptive issues which relate to AfD -- nothing
• 4. 18:03, 15 Nov: Caspian blue pounces with provacative, inflammatory language -- "Dishonest labeling with POV pushing. READ the in-line source. There is NO mention about "Hawaian yonsei" ... diff

This is not good. This short chain of excerpts shows clearly who is working on improving this article and who is not.

In this context, your participation is disruptive.

Your words and conduct have offended me. Do not use the word "dishonest" with me. It is unwelcome and unhelpful; but more important, it is both offensive and beyond your frail abilities to prove. In the context your edit history has created, it is seemly to encourage you to think again.

With all due respect, I propose that you consider this question whenever you try to create a conflict where one doesn't need to develop. The two-part question is simple:

"Will this enhance the quality of Wikipedia; and if so, how?"

If you can't answer this question with precision, clarity, and specific credible sources to back up your position, then I can only urge you to re-think .... --Tenmei (talk) 19:57, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Tenmei (talk · contribs). Nobody would listen to your tedious playing of Vexations on and on. Please refrain yourself from being extremely rude/disruptive/offensive/highly inappropriate by attacking your opponents. Well, you invited Taemyr to back you up, but why he said "merged" and CaliforniaAlibama who has been editing diaspora articles said the same thing. I raised the legitimate attention with the AFD nom unlike your two "bogus" AFDs in the middle of the merger discussion. You just keep picking on me with the provocative and insulting language. I know refraining yourself would be a very "hard task" for you because you're "Tenmei (talk · contribs)". The article is still not differentiated with Sansei and much are still copied-pasted from other articles. If you want to get some respect, do not attack people and "read the five pillar of Wikipedia". If you can't focus the subject and make personal attacks to your opponent, then you would better take a break. Bye.--Caspian blue 20:46, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Extended content

I am only beginng to parse elements of Caspian blue rhetorical strategy: Plurium interrogationum = Loaded question There is no answer to some questions like "When did you stop beating your wife?" The only constructive response is to stop, withdraw from the rhetorical ambush and re-think the parameters of teh problem. In the posting above, the word "tedious" became a suggestive clue in a process of stepping away from a wikified three-card monte gambit. --Tenmei (talk) 21:06, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Raising the level of dispute

Caspian blue -- My interest here is in raising the level of dispute; and that means

wiki-QUALITY = WP:V

Neither the quality of Wikipedia articles nor the level of dispute is enhanced by innuendo, not by derision, not by attempting to be offensive, confrontational, inflammatory, provocative ... and your recent edits give me cause to worry that somehow I might have failed inform you in terms that are clear, plain, unambiguous? --Tenmei (talk) 14:52, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Ian Duncan Smith

IMO, the ambit of Yonsei does not encompass Iain Duncan Smith. The phrase "secret past" is crucial in the headline published by The Guardian -- see Tempest, Matthew. "Duncan Smith's secret samurai past," The Guardian (UK). September 3, 2001.

Adding Smith's name to the list of notable Yonsei is off-topic; and the dubious argument parallels the kind of reasoning which labeled Heinrich Hertz as Jewish -- compare Heinrich Hertz#Nazi revisionism. --Tenmei (talk) 16:52, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Merger of Nikkei, Issei, Nisei, Sansei, Yonsei

Hi

Can't we merge all these duplicating/ overlaping articles Issei, Nisei, Sansei and Yonsei into the Japanese diaspora (Nikkei) page? Besides the obvious repetition, just because these terms exist for the different generations, that is no justification for separate articles. We don't have separate articles on first, second, third generation French/ German/ Chinese/ Portuguese immigrants in WP content on immigrant communities. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 02:56, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I think the articles on the generations should be merged. But Japanese diaspora is already a fairly long article so I don't think that is a good target. Maybe create the Nikkei page to hold the content currently at the generation pages. Taemyr (talk) 04:33, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Taemyr - that might just work. I brought up this topic on the atlkpages of all the releant pages. On one of those, someone commented that even on immigration-related pages we don't deal with with the issue of generations. I wonder where we can bring this up for wider participation. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 09:53, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose -- see Talk:Japanese diaspora#Merger of Nikkei, Issei, Nisei, Sansei, Yonsei --Tenmei (talk) 22:15, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Tenmei. I don't know what you are opposing. It is not a vote, it is a discussion. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 13:07, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: both pages moved. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 23:21, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

---

---

• Yonsei (fourth-generation Nikkei) → Yonsei (Japanese diaspora)
• Gosei (fifth-generation Nikkei) → Gosei (Japanese diaspora)

– A disambiguator which can be used to articles of similar topics is better than topic-specific disambiguators for each of them. Using a meaning of the term for the disambiguator is not a good idea as well. Simply removing "nth-generation" is an alternatives but Nikkei is ambiguous. Kusunose 02:13, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

• Support In the spirit of WP:USEENGLISH, the proposed qualifiers are much more descriptive and helpful to our average reader. --BDD (talk) 19:58, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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I have just modified 4 external links on Yonsei (Japanese diaspora). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20111112230718/http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/IPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201PR&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201T&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201TPR&-reg=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201:041;ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201PR:041;ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201T:041;ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201TPR:041&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-_lang=en to http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/IPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201PR&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201T&-qr_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201TPR&-reg=ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201:041;ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201PR:041;ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201T:041;ACS_2005_EST_G00_S0201TPR:041&-ds_name=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-_lang=en
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090218195725/http://www.najc.ca:80/thenandnow/relations_pana.php to http://www.najc.ca/thenandnow/relations_pana.php
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110928105938/http://www.rafu.com/en/2009/0425/sports.html to http://www.rafu.com/en/2009/0425/sports.html
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20061114021833/http://www.nichibeitimes.com:80/issues/articles/072706/panel.html to http://www.nichibeitimes.com/issues/articles/072706/panel.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:25, 20 July 2016 (UTC)