Talk:Volin/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Krisgabwoosh (talk · contribs) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Greetings! Been a longtime nominator but this will be one of my first swings at reviewing, so bear with me along the way. From a cursory glance, article seems about up to par, so hopefully all we'll need are some copyedits and light tidying up. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

First run: In terms of citations, research, and neutrality, all seems to be in working order. The are some style issues but mostly an abundance of easily fixable prose problems and grammatical mistakes. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 02:53, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Second run: Good progress so far. A few kinks and additional comments left to resolve. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:36, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

What still needs doing? Think I've resolved everything. -- Grnrchst (talk) 21:55, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

It was just the bibliography, naming, and works stuff. Seems that's all been taken care of now. I'll make one last pass over and assess if the article is ready. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 22:48, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Final ruling: Pass. Congratulations! Your article meets all the necessary standards to be considered a Good Article. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 23:03, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Copyedits

• Currently, all of the sections are subsections of "Biography". I'd recommend changing them all to headers and making the "Biography" header say "Early life". Krisgabwoosh (talk)

• Changed. --Grnrchst (talk) 08:52, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Additional question, perhaps you could clarify. I noticed a lot of the publications refer to him as "Voline" with an 'e'. Is "Volin" incorrect or is it a translation thing? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:19, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• It's a translation thing. Volin spent a lot of time in France and wrote in French. So often the French transliteration of Russian is used, which puts the "e" on the end in order to denote the sound of the "i". The English transliteration rules are different, so they drop the "e". "Volin" is more commonly used in English language sources. -- Grnrchst (talk) 20:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• In that case, and since it's such a common translation, you can add it to the note along with the Russian and Yiddish. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 21:24, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Done. -- Grnrchst (talk) 21:53, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Lead

• For the hatnote, change to 'the' town, rather than 'a' town. 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• You could probably shorten the intro by incorporating the original Cyrillic name into a note. See: Vladimir Putin. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Add Old Style birth dates. See: Joseph Stalin. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "But in the wake of ..." Remove 'but'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "due to the predominance of the Bolsheviks ..." 'Predominance' reads a bit clunkily, consider rephrasing. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... he went again into exile". Change "he" to "Volin". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved. --Grnrchst (talk) 09:05, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Everything looks good. Just please move the note next to Volina to be after the comma. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:37, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Done. -- Grnrchst (talk) 19:49, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Biography

• Add Old Style birth date. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... into an educated Russian Jewish family". Change 'into' to 'to'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... in Voronezh". Change 'in' to 'from'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... were able to employ". Change to 'employed'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... along with Russian". Change 'along with' to 'in addition to'. Russian, I assume, was their mother language, not some extra one they picked up. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... he moved to". Change 'he' to 'Vsevolod'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:10, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Everything checks out. One additional comment, but is there a better term than Central Black Earth Region, as it seems to cover quite the chunk of space and spans multiple oblasts? I understand the Russian Empire had governorates, perhaps you could use the corresponding one instead?

• The Central Black Earth Region is what was mentioned in the source, hence why it is here. The governorate would have been the Voronezh Governorate, which given the name, I don't think would be necessary to specify. If you don't think it's a necessary detail, then I can cut it. --Grnrchst (talk) 19:51, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Voronezh Governorate would be repetitive. If Central Black Earth Region is indeed sourced, go ahead and leave it. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:01, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Political activism

• "By 1901, he had become ...". Change 'he' to 'Vsevolod'. As a side note, the change from 'Vsevolod' to 'Volin' is rather abrupt. Do you know exactly when he started going by the pseudonym? If so, add it in the text. Alternatively, at the beginning of the biography section, you can write something like "Volin was born Vsevolod Mikhailovich Eikhenbaum on ..." and just refer to him as Volin from then on. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• At a glance, I can't seem to find info on when he started using the name Volin, so I'm going to go with your alternative suggestion, as that's how his biographies tend to refer to him anyway. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:13, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• That works. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:41, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Workers' movement can be linked. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... from the very first day". Change to 'from its inception'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... he met a number of anarchists". Change 'he' to 'Volin'. Side note: In future articles, I'd recommend restating the individual's name or last name when starting a new paragraph. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• I noticed your country links are period accurate (France links to French Third Republic, Russia links to Russian Empire, etc.) That's fine but avoid linking to still existing countries, such as United States. See: MOS:OVERLINK. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... leaving his wife and children behind in France". Mentioning that he got married before stating that he left them would be helpful. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... Volin decided to return to Russia". Change to 'returned'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved all except detail about his marriage, which I'll return to later. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:16, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• That's fine, good job so far. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:44, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Revolutionary activities

• "... relatives in Voronezh, and". Remove the comma. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... he moved to Kharkiv". 'He' to 'Volin'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• A brief sentence on what the Nabat is would be helpful, as it's not immediately clear that it's a party. Simply "the Nabat party" would even do. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Changed to its full name "Nabat Confederation of Anarchist Organisations", hopefully that should clear things up enough, but let me know. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:18, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Perfect. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:46, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• "the organisation had drawn the attention of the Bolsheviks, who attempted to suppress the organisation". This is repetitive. Consider just 'tried to suppress it' or 'the Nabat had dawn the attention of'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "Volin moved the Nabat's headquarters to Huliaipole". Do any of the sources say why? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• He moved the headquarters because of political repression by the Bolsheviks, hence the "in response". I can rewrite if this isn't clear. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:20, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• That's my fault; I was unclear. I meant why Huliaipole specifically. More defendable? Further from the frontline? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Ah right, that would be because it was the headquarters of the Makhnovshchina. He moved it there so the Nabat could effectively participate in the movement. -- Grnrchst (talk) 19:54, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Oh, I get it now. Leave it as is, then. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:00, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• "... serving as editor for its publications.". Add either 'an' or 'the' depending on whether the publication had one or multiple editors. If you don't know or it's unclear, use 'an'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "Regional Congresses" should be lowercased. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "Chairman" should also be lowercased. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• The last paragraph in this section is really long and could be split where appropriate. "In November ..." is a good place to make the split. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... he went to Kryvyi Rih". 'He' to 'Volin'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "General Secretary" should be lowercased. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... he made quick visit to Dmitrov". He made 'a' quick visit. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... predicting it would end in a 'profound reaction'". What is this supposed to mean? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• This refers to political reaction, essentially predicting the Russian Revolution would go the way of the French (i.e. the Thermidorian Reaction). If this detail isn't necessary, I can cut it. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:24, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• I tried looking for something to link to but can't seem to find anything, so go ahead and cut it. Personally, I'd cut the whole section on Kropotkin as it seems like an odd detour, but perhaps it's move integral to the larger biography than I realize. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:58, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• I've cut the prediction for now and I'll have a think over how relevant it is to the article as a whole. -- Grnrchst (talk) 20:51, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• "an All-Russian Congress of Anarchists, to be held on ...". Remove the comma. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "But following the soviet victory...". Remove 'but'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:24, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Exile

• "Volin worked together with...". Remove 'together'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• I assume by "Belin" you meant "Berlin"? Krisgabwoosh (talk)
• "He also published a weekly newspaper The Anarchist Herald, publicised evidence...'. Add a comma after 'newspaper' and add 'which' before 'publicised'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "... invited him back to Paris, in order to ... Remove the comma and 'in order'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• The last section in this paragraph, which mentions anarcho-communists and anarcho-Bolsheviks, is difficult to parse and should be separated into two sentences. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• The abbreviation "CNT" is only used once and is thus unnecessary. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "After his wife's death .... Still don't know which wife this refers to. The one he left in France? The infobox says he remarried but there's nothing in the text about it. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "Volin lived out the years that followed in poverty, until ...". Change to 'lived out the following years' and remove the comma after 'poverty'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "he was driven into hiding, due to his ...". Remove the comma. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "But by the time of the liberation of France allowed him ...". Change 'but' to 'however' and remove 'of'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• There should be a comma after 'however'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Rather than "[...]", use three dots with Template:Nbsp. See: MOS:ELLIPSIS. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved all, except the detail about his marriage. As per above, I'll need to look into this. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:31, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• @Krisgabwoosh: Ok, I looked into the stuff about his marriage, but can't find any real further detail in Avrich 1988, which is the source I used for this information. I've taken the liberty of removing references to his wife, at least until I can find more information. Hope this is ok. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:54, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• That's fine. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• "In the German capital ...". For a better transition, add 'while'. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:04, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• "publicised evidence of political repressions against Russian anarchists and translated ...". Did The Anarchist Herald translate Arshinov's works or did Volin? The run on sentence makes it unclear. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:04, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Volin did. I revisited the source and noticed that your note for adding "which" before "publicised" is actually inaccurate, as The Repressions of the Anarchists in Soviet Russia was published as its own volume, not in The Anarchist Herald. So I've reverted this run on sentence to the previous version, which I think more clearly indicates that this is what Volin has done, but if you have suggestions for rewriting it, please let me know. -- Grnrchst (talk) 20:56, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• I see what it's saying now. To me, 'publicised' read as though the paper was the one doing the publishing. I'd recommend tweaking the order of things so that it reads: "published a weekly newspaper ..., translated Peter Arshionv's ..., and publicised evidence". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 21:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 21:26, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Miscellaneous

Infobox

• Since most readers won't be immediately knowledgeable of what the Military Revolutionary Council is, I'd recommend adding "of Makhnovshchina" to the Infobox. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Is Russian Jew a nationality? Seems more like an ethnic identifier. I understand exact nationalities were dubious around this time, especially amid a crumbling Russian Empire. I'd recommend just removing it. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Remove Template:Small from the political party dates. See: MOS:SMALL. An en dash (–) between the dates should also be used rather than a hyphen (-). Lastly, you can optionally include Template:Nowrap around those parenthesis so that they stay in a single spot no matter what layout readers use. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• The number of children is unnecessary and should be removed. You can keep the names and marriage dates of his spouses, but they must be sourced somewhere in the text. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• I'd recommend using Template:Hlist rather than commas for the occupations. They're also common enough that they don't need to be hyperlinked. Additionally, while writer is an occupation, activist is not; politician could work instead. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Again, 'writer' and 'politician' can be de-linked. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:12, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Done. -- Grnrchst (talk) 21:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• I'd say he's known for a lot more than just writing The Unknown Revolution so you can just remove that parameter. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Lastly, remove all unused parameters from the Infobox's source code. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved all except marriage details, which I'll get back to. -- Grnrchst (talk) 10:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Images

• Remove the Anarchism side bar as it takes up too much space and an equivalent template is already at the bottom. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• There's a bit too many images filling up the bottom here. Removing the sidebar helps fit them in, but the pictures of Makhno and Volin's grave are probably unnecessary clutter. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved. -- Grnrchst (talk) 09:34, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Remove "lying in bed". See WP:CAPTIONOBVIOUS. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:34, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved. -- Grnrchst (talk) 20:57, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Works

• Reformat the works the same way the bibliography is formatted. Here's an example of what it should look like. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Are any of these links authorized reproductions of the text? If not, you can link to their pages on Google Books. 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved. The only one I wasn't sure was authorized was The Unknown Revolution, so I just linked to the article on that book instead. The others I'm more sure of. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:14, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Again, are these authorized reproductions of the text? Perhaps all of his texts are in the public domain? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:13, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• For The Unknown Revolution, put the original publisher, not the 2019 translation. The "Works" section is meant to be a list of publications with original publication dates, publisher names, etc. It shouldn't be a repository of links for readers who want to read the books. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:16, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• The original English language translation was from 1974. Should I use this instead? -- Grnrchst (talk) 20:58, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• All links, publication dates, publisher names, etc., should link to the original publication by Volin, not later editions or translations. For example, the original publication of The Unknown Revolution was in 1947 by the publisher Les Amis de Voline. If you cannot find links to the original publications, don't link them. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 21:13, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Ok, so should I go ahead and just removed this section then? Because only "The Historical Role of the State" is the original publication. The others are translations from French. -- Grnrchst (talk) 21:17, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Keep it, but use the French titles, publisher names, and original publication dates. Generally, book titles should not be translated in bibliographies. The Unknown Revolution is a bit of an exception to the rule. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 21:28, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Ok done, hope the new version is good. -- Grnrchst (talk) 21:36, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• That'll do. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 21:51, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Bibliography

• As stated above, remove unauthorized text reproductions. For citations with no links, a link to the appropriate Google Books page would be helpful. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• All nouns, pronouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs should be capitalized in the book titles. 02:53, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:46, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• I'd just like to confirm that all the editions cited are the same exact editions you read. Many times, different editions have varying page ranges and information. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Actually, there's a a few more issues with the bibliography section here. I'll have to go over it work by work.

• Avrich, Paul: The chapter title should be linked, not the page numbers. When publishers have their headquarters in the name, a place of publications is unnecessary, so remove 'Princeton'. Add a "via" parameter and put "Internet Archive" Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Darch, Colin: Add en dashes for the year range here. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Guérin, Daniel: Did you read the 2005 or 1998 version? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Rocker, Rudolf: En dashes again. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Resolved these issues. And I read the 2005 version. Grnrchst (talk) 21:02, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Perfect, all good. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 21:31, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

External links

• A Succession box could be added. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 02:58, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
• Lower the Portal Bar to be under the templates but not Authority Control. You can also add "Biography" and "Russia" as links. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

• Moved Portal Bar, but not added succession box. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:48, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.