Talk:Thirty-seventh government of Israel

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New section on controversies

I've started a new section on controversies associated with this government, per Talk:2023 Israeli judicial reform#The new section "Ancillary changes" doesn't belong in this article. This is the just the first revision of the section; more content and better integration with the rest of the article to follow. François Robere (talk) 17:57, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @François Robere, thanks for this! How about grouping:

• Public broadcasting budget cuts
• Nomination of Yossi Shelley as deputy National Statistician
• Changes to the National Library of Israel's board of directors

under a heading along the lines of "Controlling the flow of information"? Misha Wolf (talk) 15:13, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

A bit too sharp (cf. WP:NPOV/WP:NOR). Perhaps "Governmental data, media and archives"? François Robere (talk) 15:55, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that's better. Misha Wolf (talk) 16:03, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Judicial reforms

Hi @François Robere, I wonder whether section "Judicial reforms" should be given two sub-sections, one for the first para (which has a main article of "2023 Israeli judicial reform") and one for the second para, which is not (I think) within the scope of that main article. If I'm not mistaken, there are other legal changes in the pipeline which are also not within the scope of that main article. It's true that the passing of the "judicial reform" will enable the government to pass legislation which would otherwise be at risk of being overturned by the Supreme Court, but that does not, of itself, make such legislation part of the "judicial reform". Misha Wolf (talk) 21:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

It's the same problem again. I'll split that. François Robere (talk) 13:08, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @François Robere, thanks for doing that. I'm now wondering, though, whether we should expand the set of legal changes included in article 2023 Israeli judicial reform to include this change and the Deri law. What do you think? Misha Wolf (talk) 14:31, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

If we've already split them, then we might as well leave them here, with links in both articles. François Robere (talk) 15:06, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @François Robere, should section "Donations to elected officials" be placed within "Criminal law and process"? Misha Wolf (talk) 15:15, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

I kept it out because I didn't want it to look like we're editorializing, but I think there's a "safe" way we can do that. François Robere (talk) 14:53, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Deri law

Hi @François Robere, I think we need a section for the Deri law. Do you feel like writing that? Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 13:05, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Done. François Robere (talk) 14:37, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Gallant's firing

Hi @François Robere, I see that someone has replaced Gallant's name with "Vacant" in the Minister of Defense row of the table of ministers. Should we create a section under "Controversies" about the firing? Misha Wolf (talk) 23:25, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Hey Misha, for now I think it's enough to put it under the the existing section for the "Judicial reform". If firings become a pattern, then a subsection would be due. François Robere (talk) 09:30, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Totalstgamer and @François Robere, it seems that Gallant wasn't really fired, though that may still happen. Should we change the table entry for Minister of Defense, as well as the statement about his firing in section "Judicial reforms" to reflect this? Misha Wolf (talk) 15:48, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Gallant will likely be fired within the next couple of days. I suggest we wait a week and and add the fact that he wasnt truly sacked if he's not dismissed by then. Totalstgamer (talk) 15:58, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

WP:CRYSTALBALL. I've updated the text to reflect the current situation. François Robere (talk) 17:13, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Chametz law

Hi @François Robere, I know that the first sentence of section "The role of religion in public life" includes "The coalition's efforts to [...] force some organizations, such as hospitals, to enforce certain religious practices" but now that the Chametz law has been passed, should we mention it explicitly? Misha Wolf (talk) 17:44, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

The new national guard

Hi again @François Robere, I think we need to mention the new national guard (that will be subordinate to Ben-Gvir), to which Netanyahu has committed, in writing. If you don't have the time to do this then please tell me and I'll do it, but I think that you're much better at this kind of thing! Misha Wolf (talk) 22:24, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @François Robere, I'm thinking that we should create a new section (at the same level as "Criminal law and process"), grouping together the existing "Independence of the Israel Police" and the new "National Guard" sections. What do you think about that? Misha Wolf (talk) 23:26, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Done. François Robere (talk) 09:26, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @François Robere, please could you review the new section "Creation of a National Guard". Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 23:51, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Nice. I've done some CE - take a look and tell me what you think. François Robere (talk) 08:18, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi @François Robere, I hadn't seen your comment till just now. Thanks for the tidying up. As you may have seen, I've made some further changes to that section since then. Misha Wolf (talk) 22:10, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

The death penalty bill

Hi yet again @François Robere, I see in the 2023 in Israel article that the death penalty bill passed its preliminary stage in the Knesset earlier this month. We should mention it here. Would you care to do it or should I do so? Misha Wolf (talk) 23:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Today and tomorrow I'm a bit busy with some other things, so I don't have the time to write on this, the Chametz law and the proposed national guard, but I agree all three should be mentioned. François Robere (talk) 08:02, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Comment re Ben-Gvir

I don't see Ben Gvir as minister Special:Contributions/151.60.32.231 12:09, 16 April 2023

Do you mean that you can't see him listed in the table of Ministers? He is listed there as Minister of National Security. Misha Wolf (talk) 18:37, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Haredi draft exemption

Hi @François Robere, do you feel like writing an item about the proposed law to make it easier for Haredim to get draft exemption? I expect that it belongs in section "Security organizations". Misha Wolf (talk) 16:38, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Either that or the "Religion" section, but I won't have time to write it for at least several days. François Robere (talk) 11:30, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Recently appointed ministers

Looking at https://main.knesset.gov.il/EN/mk/government/Pages/governments.aspx?govId=37, I see the following minister who does not appear to be in the table of Ministers of this article:

• David Amsalem (from 28.3.2023)

I also see a minister whom we do not show with his current roles per the Knesset page:

• Moshe Arbel (Minister of Health and Minister of Interior since 19.4.2023 per the Knesset page)

Additionally, according to The Times of Israel, May Golan was approved by the Knesset on May 1 as Minister for the Advancement of the Status of Women (see https://www.timesofisrael.com/likuds-golan-made-a-minister-ejected-from-knesset-plenum-during-row-minutes-later/), though that is not yet reflected by the Knesset page. Misha Wolf (talk) 22:19, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

All of those are indeed true, and the appropriate pages need to be updated. Totalstgamer (talk) 16:19, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

The text introducing the table of Ministers

Hi @Salandarianflag. Until today (8 May), the text introducing the table of Ministers in article Thirty-seventh government of Israel was "The following are the current ministers in the government:". This is similar to the corresponding text in article Thirty-sixth government of Israel, namely "The following are the ministers of the 36th Israeli government in its final makeup.". On 8 May, you changed the text in article Thirty-seventh government of Israel to "The following as listed below are the current ministers in the government:". On the same day, I amended the text to "Listed below are the current ministers in the government:", stating in the edit summary that "We don't need both "the following" and "listed below" as they mean the same thing." On the same day, you reverted my edit, without any explanation. This is not OK. The current text is not good English. Please explain why you made the change and why you reverted my edit. Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 22:33, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

I’m sorry it seems like an accident I was trying to edit something else. Salandarianflag (talk) 11:40, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Smotrich's speech in Paris on 19 March 2023

Hi @GeopoliticalSphygmomanometry, thanks for your recent additions to the article. I see a few problems with your move of the text about the 'Greater Land of Israel' flag from section "Denial of the existence of Palestinians" to the new section titled "Jordan":

• As well as Trans-Jordan, the 'Greater Land of Israel' depicted in that flag encompassed all of Mandatory Palestine. Placing this text (only) under the heading "Jordan" makes that fact (almost) invisible.
• Moving that text away from section "Denial of the existence of Palestinians", makes the US State Department quote in the subsequent paragraph ("The comments, which were delivered at a podium adorned with an inaccurate and provocative map, are offensive, they are deeply concerning, and, candidly, they're dangerous") puzzling, as the section no longer mentions a map.

OTOH, I agree that the earlier placement of this text under the heading "Denial of the existence of Palestinians", glossed over the Trans-Jordan aspect.

So what should we do? I haven't figured it out, but am throwing it out for discussion. Misha Wolf (talk) 22:22, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm in the process of merging sections "Denial of the existence of Palestinians" and "Jordan" into a new section titled "The Greater Land of Israel". Comments are welcome. Misha Wolf (talk) 23:01, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't think that adequately summarizes the two topics: I've attempted a combined header. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:07, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Misha Wolf! Thanks for your work. Two points here:

a. I'm not sure exactly how to work out the Jordan\ 'Greater Land of Israel' question you brought up here, but I do think that they should be seperate, because essentially they were two seperate controversies, with different effects. The 'Greater Land of Israel' problem drew anger from Jordan, and the denial of the existence of a Palestinian people created a somewhat seperate problem, I think. Not sure.

b. It's inaccurate to write "Denial of the existence of Palestinians". Smotritch does not deny that they exist. However, he denies their nationhood. So it should probably be titled "Denial of the existence of a Palestinian Nation". GeopoliticalSphygmomanometry (talk) 09:44, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @GeopoliticalSphygmomanometry,

There are three controversies here:

• the Land of Israel shown in the map includes the whole of Mandatory Palestine
• the Land of Israel shown in the map includes Trans-Jordan
• Smotrich's statements about Palestinians

I don't think we can separate the map-related controversies from Smotrich's statements about Palestinians as the US State Department's statement refers to all of it.

Regarding Palestinians, Smotrich said:

"Jacques’ truth must be told with all our might and without confusion, he said there is no such thing as Palestinians – because there is no such thing as a Palestinian people."

"My grandfather, who was the 13th generation in Jerusalem, is the real Palestinian. My grandmother, who was born in Metula more than 100 years ago to a family of pioneers, is Palestinian."

"Is there a Palestinian history or culture? No. There were Arabs in the Middle East who arrived in the Land of Israel at the same time as the Jewish immigration and the beginning of Zionism."

"After 2,000 years of exile, the people of Israel were returning home, and there were Arabs around [us] who do not like it. So what do they do? They invent a fictitious people in the Land of Israel and claim fictitious rights in the Land of Israel just to fight the Zionist movement."

Does that not constitute a denial that Arabs who describe themselves as Palestinians are, indeed, Palestinians? Misha Wolf (talk) 14:41, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

References

Proposed NGO law by Likud

This proposed law that would have severely cracked down on civil society in Israel and in the West bank. This should probably be added to the list of controversies. Monochromemelo1 (talk) 23:28, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Standard taxonomy?

The controversies section is (rightfully and unfortunately) very rich and varied, which brings with it problems of categorization. For example, "corruption" is an accurate header, but overly broad (it could encompass much of what the current government is doing) and possibly WP:POV-ish; and "women's rights" is more than important enough to deserve its own section, but then how do we disentangle it from the religious aspect, which is why it's an issue to begin with? If anyone has any ideas for a taxonomy - preferably some standard taxonomy of policy fields - please come forth. François Robere (talk) 08:45, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Shouldn’t this page be locked?

Sorry I haven’t logged in but I am very shocked that logged out, that this page hasn’t be locked, as all of these types of articles should at least have some level of protection to keep them from being vandalised. 5.182.58.210 (talk) 13:56, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

See WP:PREEMPTIVE. François Robere (talk) 04:21, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Some recent blunders

We should probably mention these:

1. Ben Gvir on Israelis and Palestinians' freedom of movement.[1][2][3][4][5]
2. Cohen pushing for meetings with AUR leaders.[6][7][8][9][10]
3. Cohen on Libya talks.[11][12][13][14][15][16]

François Robere (talk) 04:45, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Manifesto Translation

Hi folks,

I think it is relevant to add a translation of their manifesto into English under its own subsection. It is accessed here in Hebrew: https://static.zman.co.il/www/uploads/2022/12/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%95%D7%99-%D7%99%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%93-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%94-37.pdf What do you think? I feel like it is highly relevant to this page. DivineReality (talk) 07:52, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Doesn't really fit under wikipedia's purview, maybe under wikisource if there's no copyright. Totalstgamer (talk) 12:04, 14 October 2023 (UTC)