Talk:The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!

Karen Hartman

I suspect the wikilink to Karen Hartman in the live-action guest star section (“Karen Hartman as Patty's mother / Mrs. Gammliss”) links to the wrong person. I have posted on that Karen Hartman’s talk page to ask for clarification. Buddy23Lee (talk) 23:57, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I believe The Legend of Zelda (TV series) should be merged back into this article. To explain to why, first I must describe the format of the show. The Super Mario Bros. Super Show consisted of 65 episodes. Each episode started and ended with a live-action Mario segment, split into two halves between which was an animated segment. For 52 episodes, this was an episode of The Super Mario Bros., and for the remaining 13 episodes it was an episode of The Legend of Zelda. It does not make sense to treat the latter segment as its own series when it was produced and broadcast as part of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show, especially not when the other segment is not treated as a separate series. This arbitary split has led to nonsense like The Super Mario Bros. Super Show being listed as having only 52 episodes, and having 13 of its live-action segments be listed on the Zelda page. Eldomtom2 (talk) 19:32, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm leaning toward merge but I'd like to get a sense of how the merged article will look. Can you mock up an example in Draft space? Axem Titanium (talk) 22:08, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Here's a quick and dirty draft. --Eldomtom2 (talk) 00:26, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I'm happy to support the merge. The current separate articles needlessly obfuscate the fact that TLOZ cartoon aired as a segment of the SMB Super Show. The episode counts are especially deceptive in this regard. I see no WP:SIZESPLIT issues with the merge draft. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:41, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't believe in the merger. Later commentary treats Super Mario Bros. Super Show and Zelda as separate shows. Yoshiman6464 ^♫🥚 00:00, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm not following. They sound like separate things. Sergecross73 msg me 00:02, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

The Legend of Zelda is separate from The Super Mario Bros. Super Show in the same way that Slappy Squirrel is separate from Animaniacs--Eldomtom2 (talk) 00:27, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

To expand, from here: Each episode of the program consisted of two live action segments, one at the start and the other towards the end [...] The rest of the episode in-between these live-action segments were dedicated to animated serials. For the majority of episodes, between Monday and Thursday, each episode of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! featured an animated serial of the Super Mario Bros. [...] For every subsequent Friday, the animated segments consisted of serials of The Legend of Zelda. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:41, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

• Leaning oppose—While The Legend of Zelda is a sub-aspect of the Super Show, it features a unique premise, production, writing, cast, episodes, airings, releases, and reception, so I think it would be fine as a stand-alone article. DecafPotato (talk) 18:55, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

  But it doesn't have unique episodes and airings. That's my point.--Eldomtom2 (talk) 16:25, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

  It also doesn't have unique production, writing, or releases. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:51, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

  What I mean is that the production, writing, releases, etc. are self-contained. Obviously they aired together, but TLoZ got individual re-releases, and both articles function fine with minimal references to each other. Per Yoshiman6464, later commentary in reliable sources treat them as separate things. DecafPotato (talk) 00:14, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

  Yes, both segments were later aired as part of different shows. But that is not uncommon, and is not itself a justification for splitting the articles, especially when it obsfucates that they were originally produced and aired as one. It may useful to watch a Super Show episode that contains a Zelda segment.--Eldomtom2 (talk) 16:20, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

  @DecafPotato: By that logic, the live action segments of SMBSS are a third separate show with its own continuity and production crew. It doesn't make sense to slice out the 6 minutes of live action Mario footage and broadcast it without the Zelda episode in between. The fact of the matter is that the creators of the SMBSS conceived of the different segments of the show as comprising a single unit, with animated cartoons based on multiple games in the middle and Captain Lou's segments as a frame story. That only Mario and Zelda themed cartoons made it to broadcast is an accident of history; it doesn't change the fact that SMBSS was always intended as a variety show.[1] Axem Titanium (talk) 15:10, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

  I’m mainly going off of the fact that modern coverage treats them as separate—the separate production etc. only serves to make a split work fine in my opinion. DecafPotato (talk) 00:52, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support, having read the nominator's rationale and the discussion with Axem. ReneeWrites (talk) 23:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
• Comment: How the episodes were originally released should be the guide. 157.157.243.85 (talk) 05:24, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

  So you support the merge?--Eldomtom2 (talk) 22:52, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.