Talk:Tegart's Wall

Need source in article to add to Category:Separation barriers

You cannot just claim it is a "fact."The term separation barrier is neologism. Although it is one primarily applied to Israelis separating from Palestinians, as almost all WP:RS mentions show, there still must be a WP:RS actually calling it a separation barrier for it to be in that category. Otherwise it's wp:or. (Note that all the sources using the term for this wall I saw are just mirrors of the wikipedia's original WP:OR separation barrier article; but maybe you can find one.) CarolMooreDC🗽 04:51, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

CHANGE TITLE: Wall with capital W!

... as it it a proper noun. See also 1938 'Times' article.Arminden (talk) 11:46, 27 November 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 11:46, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree. Zero^talk 13:34, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Where was it, exactly?

@Arminden: In Appendix 13 of El-Eini, Mandated Landscape there is a map showing Tegart Forts and a "frontier fence" that I presume is this one. However it only follows the international boundary until near Nabi Yusha. At the place where the boundary turns north towards Metulla, the fence heads south to the middle of the north shore of Kinneret, leaving the whole panhandle and Lake Hula on the outside. I don't find this confirmed in any textual source, can you? Zero^talk 13:58, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Ahah, I found a precise description. I have to leave just now, more tomorrow. Zero^talk 14:11, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Also, it would be nice to have something like this: [1]. Zero^talk 13:58, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

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@Zero0000: Hi Zero. Maybe you did find the same, but voila: a blog quoting an article of the Palestine Post of May 31, 1938. The same text also available in part at http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/php/art.php?aid=43597 and fully at http://www.think-israel.org/feb04bloged.html but I first found it at http://politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=70130

Quote: "The specifications call for a barbed wire fence extending for about 50 miles from the coastal road at Ras en-Nakura eastwards to Nebi Yusha (Metullah) and curving down to the Huleh marshes. Jewish colonies at that point form a barrier, but the fence resumes at Rosh Pina and extends to Tabgha on the Sea of Galilee, which in turn will be patrolled by motor-launches. South of the Sea of Galilee a two-and-a-half miles stretch as far as the mouth of the Yarmuk River will be fenced. Plans are being made for obstructing the passage of the Jordan River between Palestine and Trans-Jordan at its 70 fords."

Have no pics, with or without tarboosh-wearing villager :-) Arminden (talk) 01:37, 28 November 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 01:37, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

@Arminden: I don't know why it says "Nebi Yusha (Metullah)" as those two places are 20km apart. Maybe it is just distinguishing that Nebi Musha from another. Anyway, here is a definition from the Palestine (Defence) Order in Council, 1937, inserted as regulation 13A in 1938 (The Palestine Gazette, no. 790, 17 June 1938, Suppl. 2, pp. 672–673):

In this regulation "frontier fence" means the barbed wire fence erected on the North and East of Palestine and starting from a point — (a) in the Yarmuk river to the Sea of Galilee above Samakh, (b) in the Sea of Galilee in the vicinity of Tabgha following the Tiberias–Rosh Pinna road to a point adjacent the T. J. F. F. camp at Rosh Pinna, (c) from a point in the Huleh marshes to Nebi Yoshe and thence following the line of the N. F. Road to Ras en Nakura.

Of course, TJFF is Trans-Jordan Frontier Force, I see the camp on a map. "N.F. Road" is Northern Frontier Road, which means it wasn't exactly on the Lebanese border either. I feel a map coming on... Zero^talk 02:27, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Here is an article by Gad Kreuzer on the "wall". Unfortunately for me, it is in Hebrew, which I can read but not understand. We need to figure out where this was published, then it will have a large amount of useful information. Zero^talk 03:40, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

That source does not mention a break between Nebi Yusha and Kinneret, citing maps as a source, and indeed I now have maps showing the exact route without a break all the way from Kinneret to the Mediterranean. I guess the gap was filled in later than the PP article. The maps are 1940-ish. Zero^talk 04:54, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

And here is a whole book on the tigartim, in Hebrew. Zero^talk 05:23, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

@Zero0000: I see you got hooked :-) Shame I can't read the Hebrew, but the map is very helpful. The Polish WP article, and I think the Hebrew one too, list several more posts & stations. Maybe because Croizer only deals with 38-41? OK, I should be doing smth. else. Good luck and looking forward for the results! Arminden (talk) 09:27, 28 November 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 09:27, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

@Arminden: Map added. Zero^talk 12:16, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

@Zero0000: Beautiful! Well done. Astounding how much the British were willing to leave on the other side of the fence.

Can you fix the title too, please? Wall with capital W, as it is a proper noun, the 1938 'Times' article and everybody that matters :-) also has it that way. Getting somewhere! Arminden (talk) 13:10, 28 November 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 13:10, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Source no longer linked

The link to the source for much of this article, "The Israel-Lebanon Border Enigma," no longer works. 128.237.82.5 (talk) 05:45, 23 February 2024 (UTC)