Talk:Roberta Cowell
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| This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans women. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
WikiProject class rating edit
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:54, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Who was first? edit
According to the article on Lili Elbe, she was the first recipient of male-to-female sex-reassignment surgery as early as the 1930s, which would predate Cowell's claim. Rodparkes 02:39, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Lili Elbe was the first known MTF transsexual to undergo vaginoplasty. There are cases of castration and penectomy of MTF transsexuals going back thousands of years. (Also, there was another vaginoplasty patient before Lili Elbe, and others in the 20-year span). I've edited the article to add detail and remove inconsistencies.Glamrockboy (talk) 10:13, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
i assume that why cowell is referred to as 'the first BRITISH mtf sex-change operation' Selena1981 (talk) 22:44, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Death of Roberta Cowell edit
Roberta died on 11 October 2011 at West Middlesex Hospital. She was my mothers father, and I have a copy of the death certificate but I'm struggling to find a suitable reference to cite. I believe there's some articles published in print so I'll obtain these and update the wiki article as soon as possible. ALLOCKE|talk 19:42, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
MOS:IDENTITY and use of he & she edit
Let me quickly say that I am not questioning MOS:IDENTITY. I just have a question. MOS:IDENTITY is very clear that, in circumstances such as Roberta's, 'she' should be used for all phases of her life unless she expresses a preference. In her autobiography published in November 1954, she says:
"FOR THE FIRST THIRTY-THREE YEARS OF MY LIFE I was Robert Cowell, an aggressive male who had piloted a Spitfire during the war {WW2}, designed and driven racing cars, married and become the father of two children. Since May 18th, 1951, I have been Roberta Cowell, female. I have become woman physically, psychologically, glandularly and legally. "
That indicates to me that she regarded herself as having been male prior to May 1951. Does that count as expressing a preference and that 'he' should be used to describe her life prior to that date? Allen Brown (talk) 17:07, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
- No, all trans people are initially conditioned to present and regard themselves as the gender they were assigned at birth. However, their gender identity is always the opposite, from about the time they become conscious of the difference between genders. We use a single gender throughout article, regardless of artifacts such as you quote, matching the latest gender identity preference of the subject. It is practically impossible for a trans person to write anything autobiographical without it having artifacts such as you describe. This is not evidence of "regarding oneself as male" as much as it is evidence that English and most other languages do not have the facility needed for trans people to accurately describe their experience. Skyerise (talk) 21:43, 16 March 2015 (UTC)