Talk:Premier League records and statistics

Alex Ferguson

This article currently has Alex Ferguson as the longest serving manager, which is obviously correct. However, as the page is the Premier League and not top-flight football, shouldn't his reign be from the inception of the Premier League (in 1992) rather than when he actually took over in 1986? All the other records are from the beginning of the league in 1992 except for this one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.27.225.43 (talk) 14:44, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Man U Titles

As above, Man U haven't won 19 premier league titles.

195.10.102.252 (talk) 15:19, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Long-range free kicks

Figueroa's goal was definitely not from 96yds, as stated. It was from only 2-3 yards inside his own half. Footage here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpwaEdC3hnE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.236.11 (talk) 12:46, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

League history of current and former Premier League teams from 1992-93 to 2013-14.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_records_and_statistics#/media/File:92-14_prem_history.png (shown in the article next to the Team Points records). This file/picture needs updating. 86.151.233.0 (talk) 03:46, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Most hat-tricks in a season

The entry currently reads:

"5, Alan Shearer (42 games) (Blackburn Rovers, 1995–96"

but 95-96 was a 38 game season.

 Done Fixed Snowflake91 (talk) 14:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2017

Add to : Most Premier league hat-tricks in a season: Alan Shearer 5 (42 games) (Blackburn Rovers, 1995–96)[77]

The following text Harry Kane 5 (30 games) (Tottenham Hotspur, 2016-17) 199.67.203.140 (talk) 10:36, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

 Not done He has 4 hat-tricks in 2016–17, not five Snowflake91 (talk) 12:33, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

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player stat inconsistencies

Why do we have number of games played on the most goals scored table but not for assists or clean sheets? These should be consistent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:7801:D200:541F:2EB7:171A:3DED (talk) 18:12, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Losing Seasons

I think it would be great to add "Losing Season" column. That would be number of seasons in which a club had more loses than wins (so 10-10-10 for example would not be a losing season; because of draw seasons it's better to have losing seasons than winning seasons). That would show how consistent a club is. There are clubs that have peeks and lows and there a clubs that are average. So maybe they have 0 titles and equal number of wins but differ in consistency. Setenzatsu.2 (talk) 20:25, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I think that's a bit much. What sources do this, and if none (as I expect), why should we be the pioneers of this? – PeeJay 23:16, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Guidelines for Record inclusions on this page

(Discussion open to all users and contributors to this page)

This Wikipedia article is meant to contain official verified records related to the Premier League. It should be considered a resource to find all relevant and interesting records related to the categories of records within, as far as these are verified and correctly referenced. If this article solely copy pastes records from an existing source (Premier League website for example) it will not provide much added value for readers. Records and sources need to be credible and interesting, and interesting can be measured in terms of whether the wider press finds it interesting enough to report it as well. These records should not be lost to common people who can not afford an Opta stats license.

A record can be considered relevant for this page if it is recognised as a Premier League record, verified with an approved reference, and it is football relevant. We can list categories of records here that should be considered relevant for inclusion but that will be a very long list.

Specifically related to recent editing - records that relate to the youngest or oldest player to achieve a significant feat (youngest player to score a goal for example). The more difficult a feat the more worthwhile it is to have its record included (youngest hat trick is more difficult than youngest goal scorer). scoring a hat trick or making a hattrick of assist is a rare feat and the youngest and oldest players to achieve these feats should rightfully be included (and are interesting and useful for readers to have a source and be able to find in Wikipedia).

In addition records related to points hauls are highly relevant and gather wide and significant attention from people and press. There are hundreds of articles that have been discussing such records, especially in recent times. If the record is relevant for wide press coverage it should be more than relevant for inclusion herein. The amount of articles and discussions regarding amongst other things most points in a season, most points over 38 consecutive games (the equivalent of a full season), as well largest point leads during a season, are records that don't come around, nor are broken, very often and deserve a place within records pages such as these. The priority of this page is not to make it as concise as possible, but to include all interesting and relevant records

This page needs to be a source for all Premier League interested readers to find interesting records. It should not be governed by individual football loyalties wishing to strike facts from the readers. When a record becomes 'too quirky' can however be a subject for discussion which I invite others to contribute to. Inclusion of these records mention in press with significant readership should however be a major reason for inclusion herein. Otherwise strict rules for what does and does not warrant inclusion should be agreed to avoid arguments.

Your definition of what constitutes a "relevant and interesting" record is pretty shaky, in my opinion. What you are suggesting is essentially an indiscriminate list of stats that someone, at some time, considered "interesting", which would lead to a totally unwieldy article. A hat-trick of assists, while unusual, is not commonly listed in record books, so why should we list it here? Same goes for the other records; they might be interesting, but they're the sort of thing I would expect to see reported on the OptaJoe Twitter account, not in a list of the all-time records of the Premier League. – PeeJay 16:17, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Of course you, I, and everyone else, is entitled to their opinion on what does and does not constitute shaky. I am also not in the camp of including 'indescriminate stats' however what constitutes such is not a science, and there's a whole level of grey in there. Let's try and define it better if we can. In football one could label the key statistic for each position played. For strikers it's goals, for goalkeepers saves or clean sheets, for defenders clean sheets, and for midfielders its assists. Similarly to hat tricks of goals being difficult, so are hat tricks of assists. Messi has 'only' achieved 4 in his whole career, and that says something about how difficult they are. Thus records regarding these are highly relevant, and it would be great to be able to provide readers with more of these records for the Premier League. So hat tricks of assists, I would feel myself, and many others would argue, are not quirky, but highly relevant and interesting records to read about, and we should be supportive of listing more records (not less) of that type. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRealGutripper (talk • contribs) 16:40, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

In addition I think the most constructive way forward (regardless of what we can all agree on specific cases that initiated this discussion) is to try and more clearly define the conditions that constitute the requirements to be included as a record on this page. I will come with some ideas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRealGutripper (talk • contribs) 17:21, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Looking through all the records on the page, one would have to admit that either the page would need to be cut down significantly (making it either extremely dull or replicating other known record pages and hterefore obsolete) or it should be structured better and allow for relevant and interesting records that bring people to the page. Structured correctly there is room for records such as the ones being discussed. This is not the Guinness Book of World Records, but it is worth noting that interesting and relevant records makes the page interesting and relevant, and that why people read and are interested in records.

Overarching principles for records to be included here should mostly be obvious but still stated:

• 1. They are related directly to a Premier League team, player or manager (should any other Premier League related 'entities' also be included?)
• 2. The record should be directly football related either in terms of on pitch player achievement, team achievement, or manager achievement. (How can we draw the line clearly? What about a record such as tallest ever Premier League player? would such a record warrant inclusion?)
• 3. The record needs to be clearly verifiable from more than one reputable source (for 'contentious' records at least two acceptable references need to be provided) to show that it is a record of public interest, that has been covered by approved sources. If the media widely reports certain types of records, then these should also be able to be found here if they agree to the these principles
• 4. Records should not be made as lists - only when the record holder is tied with others should these all be listed (all places below that record are likely covered in other wiki articles anyway, 'most goals' etc)

The above is a first stab at some hopefully uncontentious points to filter what should be included. I think it will be hard to make a comprehensive list of acceptable/unacceptable records as it would be endless. We don't want records such as Premier League with the biggest head, or Premier League team with the longest name. If you can define further points to the list that would unambiguously ensure that records included can not be included nor deleted by users to protect against bias (which is common in football pages) then please expand.

Beyond the record side of things this page also deals with 'Premier League statistics' - that would seem to open up to nearly anything and mostly statistics that are found elsewhere. How are statistics that should be included in this article defined as relevant? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRealGutripper (talk • contribs) 21:21, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Additional discussions regarding specific records

Currently PeeJay2K3 is of the opinion that 4 records (all related to Liverpool) should be removed from this page. These are: Most points over 38 consecutive Premier League games: Biggest lead at any point in a season Biggest lead at any point in a season (after same number of games played) Youngest player to complete a hat-trick of assists

The arguments for and against inclusion these should be presented here in an unbiased and formalised way - we do not wish to create a loop hole for fans of particular clubs to be able to delete any undesired records and calling on Wikipedia rule BLP as enough reason. If records abide by the guidelines agreed herein (see discussion above) they should be allowed to be included, arbitrary personal feelings of what should or should not be relevant should be eliminated from this process to remove bias and unnecessary discussion:

Arguments below:

*Most points over 38 consecutive Premier League games:

• • Record broken 11 Jan 2020
  • Record added on wiki page 11 Jan 2020
  • Record and references updated by more than 2 different page contributors over 4 months
  • Widely reported and mentioned by many British and global media outlets as a significant record including:

o Premier League o NBC Sports o BBC o FourFourTwo …and many more

• • Registered and written on Premier League’s own webpage for significant records broken: https://www.premierleague.com/news/1561869

*Biggest lead at any point in a season

• • Widely reported and mentioned by many British and global media outlets as a significant record including:

o Premier League o The Guardian o BBC o Irish Times …And many more

• • Registered and written on Premier League’s own webpage for significant records broken: https://www.premierleague.com/news/1561869

*Biggest lead at any point in a season (after same number of games played)

• • Widely reported and mentioned by many British and global media outlets as a significant record including:

o BBC o Sydney Morning Herald o Yahoo Sports …And many more

• • This record does share a lot with the above record, and perhaps only one is needed although this record is more 'like for like' given it considers number of games played. The other record is however written about by the Premier League itself and therefore more relevant/significant (25pts w a game more played >22pts w equal games played)

*Youngest player to complete a hat-trick of assists

• • Goals are the main record seeked for goalscorers/striker, clean sheets are the main record seeked by defenders and goalkeepers, and assists are the bread and butter for midfielders. These are key stats that would and should always be considered worthy for record purposes

- Hat tricks of assists are exceedingly difficult to achieve. As mentioned elsewhere even Lionel Messi has only completed 4 in his entire career! Hat tricks of assists are an incredible achievement for any player and usually provides them with the match ball to take home in the same way as the scorer of hat tricks of goals

• • More records of this type should be supported and encouraged on this records page as they are interesting for those seeking records related to assists, in the same way people seeking interesting records regarding goal scorers (youngest/oldest goal scorer, youngest/oldest hat-trick scorer, most hat tricks etc)
  • Instead of deleting this record I argue it not only should be included, but encourage contributors to build further on this to give people access to a source for these assist records. Oldest player to score hat trick of assists, most hat tricks of assist by a PL player, most in a season, quickest (all relevant and interesting records in my opinion)

Please support the discussion by adding your views. TheRealGutripper (talk) 08:42, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

• I personally think the records should be kept. There has been a lot of discussion in the newspapers about these recrds and as such these records meet the notability requirements.

11cookeaw1 (talk) 09:05, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

• TheRealGutripper, regarding Special:Diff/957528288: Inviting specific users to the discussion in a non-neutral way, such as asking for their input "especially if you wish to keep these records" and misrepresenting the situation ("being deleted by one user under slightly contentious reasons") makes it very hard to establish an actual consensus for including the information. 11cookeaw1 seems to have a history of edit warring, has been repeatedly accused of violating WP:BLP in the recent past, lacked the experience to add a properly signed and formatted comment to this discussion and is not a good choice for canvassing. Can you please drop the topic and move on? Your insistence is becoming disruptive. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 14:57, 19 May 2020 (UTC)*

  I apologise. I invited 11cookeaw1 as he added these records and wished to let him know of the discussion. The wording of my invitation to him was presumptive and poorly chosen with hindsight, and I will not make that mistake again knowing the rules now. I am fairly new and inexperienced user to Wikipedia, I hope I can be granted the benefit of the doubt. Support is difficult to find and learning of all the Wikipedia rules seems to be a trial and error experience. As you ask, I will retreat myself from this discussion TheRealGutripper (talk) 07:02, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I would remove the Most Assists by a Defender in a Season record. We don't have any others records that differentiate between outfield positions. Just because something is verifiable, it doesn't mean it needs to be on this page. Spike 'em (talk) 12:11, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Page Clean Up Suggestions

In terms of clean up on the page i think it would be more worthwhile to link to the separate Wiki pages for top premier league scorers and most clean sheets, and delete the tables here, rather than have these additional top 10 tables that need to be kept up to date as well. I also think the list of youngest goal scorers seems out of place - it's interesting, but the youngest goal scorer is mentioned already under goal scoring records, and here it has a separate subsection and table with a link from slightly dubious reference source (TalkSport). TheRealGutripper (talk) 12:59, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Any views on the record "Most assists from one player to another: 24, Frank Lampard to Didier Drogba[109]" - I would not even know where to start to find stats of the current top 5, if this record was to change? Can anyone tell me the total of how many KDB and Aguero have together for example? TheRealGutripper (talk) 12:59, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

I agree that there is no need for a top 10 list if there is a separate page that lists them. I also removed the list of 10 youngest goalscorers at about the same time as you made your comment. Spike 'em (talk) 13:18, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Wrt to the surplus top 10 tables, I made the adjustments to the page earlier last week and added the references to the relevant Wiki pages, but they were reverted by another editor. If there's consensus to remove these tables (or is it not the decision to keep them that needs consensus?), those edits can easily be reverted. As there is no Wiki page for PL assist records I think the top 10 table for assists is OK to keep. TheRealGutripper (talk) 06:29, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Going by WP:BRD, if there is any contention about adding or removing content, then the default is to keep the page as it was before the Bold action. We're now taking part in the Discussion part of the cycle! Spike 'em (talk) 09:09, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

I disagree that top 10 tables are superfluous, even if there is a separate article for that record. In fact, I would argue that the existence of a separate article means we need to cover the record in a slightly more than cursory way here, hence the top 10 table. See my reply at WP:FOOTY for my reason why a top 10 table makes sense for the likes of all-time top goalscorer records and not for single-season points totals. – PeeJay 10:24, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

The only issue with that argument is that it could then likewise be argued for inclusion of further tables regarding season records for Clean Sheets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_Golden_Glove), Most Hat-Tricks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Premier_League_hat-tricks), Most Appearances (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Premier_League_players), and Highest Scoring Games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Premier_League_players), and possibly other categories, as well as those already included presently that you mentioned. That would make the article unnecessarily bloated with information already present in a more detailed article elsewhere. I think it is more consistent to keep the article concise with regard to statistics that are elsewhere, keep the record for each of those categories and link to the relevant page. Where there is not a separate Wiki article a small top5/top10 table for that record would provide interesting statistics for readers not found elsewhere. I agree this should not be for all or more obscure records, but only major headline records such as Most Assists, Most Points, Most Titles and Most Goals for example (and any others deemed worthwhile by the community) TheRealGutripper (talk) 10:49, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

How do you figure that "most assists" is a "headline record"? We don't even have a consistent definition for what constitutes an assist. It varies from stats organisation to stats organisation. Also, why is "most points" one that deserves a top 10? – PeeJay 13:52, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

If you were to list the top 3-5 key player statistics that are most notable in football, they'd go: 1. Goals, 2. Assists, 3. Clean Sheets, 4. Appearances, 5. Minutes Played (or maybe Yellow Cards). If your hierarchy is different please tell. This is in fact also the order used on the Premier League's own statistics web page uses when you use their statistics database. So I'd say assists (as defined by the league if you will) are one of the most notable individual statistics discussed, and therefore naturally 'most assists in a season' or 'most assists in a career' are certainly headline records, closely behind 'most goals in a season' or 'most goals in a career'. Similarly when it comes to differentiate team performances, over one or several seasons, what do people discuss and use for comparison? Here the hierarchy most people would agree is: 1. Titles, 2. Points, 3. Goals, 4. Wins, 5. Losses. These hierarchies (for individual and team statistics) are surely the basis for discussion regarding record categories that are notable, and therefore as we are discussing here, which are then notable enough to deserve a mini-table on the records page. What is your view of that hierarchy of importance otherwise if it differs? I see this Wiki record page as probably the best, most comprehensive, and most accessible, source of Premier League records for the general public (i.e. one without fees), and is not just a copy/paste of the Premier League's records page. It serves as a reference page that assists numerous discussions regarding records and stats, and not just those about who was necessarily top of the list, hence why the mini tables are interesting and useful for 'most notable' stats. Currently we have mini top10 tables for individual records (goals, assists, clean sheets), but we have none for team records...why? I think we can easily have one top 5 or top 10 table for Titles and/or Points (maybe even Goals?) and it would improve the page. For individual records I'd say we are already well covered (in fact so much so that we are including tables that are already linked to separate Wiki pages with loads more information - thus we can easily remove these instead if we are concerned about the page being bloated). Wikipedia encourages us to be bold and add relevant and interesting material (within reason which I would argue this certainly is). We should try to salvage and improve text, instead of deleting it. Regardless, I appreciate the constructive dialogue. We could perhaps try to make these changes and see if there others that share similar concerns, what do you say? TheRealGutripper (talk) 14:24, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Awards : Premier League Ballon d'Or Winners

I noticed this section doesn't mention records for more important football awards, such as the Ballon d'Or. It seems like it should have a place in this article. Would it not be relevant to show records for winners of this (and maybe select other) more prestigious awards (in the case of the Ballon d'Or only two PL players have won it once)? TheRealGutripper (talk) 11:00, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Now added. Was thinking other prestigious annual awards could be included here too (FWA Footballer of the Year, PPY, FPY, YPY, SF)? Will look into this later if no one objects. TheRealGutripper (talk) 07:43, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Disciplinary Records

We are missing records for 'positive' disciplinary records such as for example most consecutive games without a yellow card, possibly others. TheRealGutripper (talk) 14:28, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

I've added two significant Disciplinary Records - 'Fastest Booking' and 'Most Consecutive games without a booking'. TheRealGutripper (talk) 08:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Champions Table?

Would there be any value in someone producing a table, similar to the 'list of seasons pages', that lists the PL Champion's record for each season? It would be great for comparison purposes.Statto74 (talk) 15:37, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Record Entry discussion for deletion

The following record :

"Most assists from one player to another: 24, Frank Lampard to Didier Drogba"

Albeit slightly interesting - seems both very niche but also impossible to check if it's been broken or is close to (what is the current top 5 for this record?). I would argue this record is more obscure than many others that have been deleted for being too 'niche' (most assists by a defender for example that are more easily verified, and others). I will leave this discussion open for a while to hear of any opposition/support for the deletion of this entry before making any amendments. TheRealGutripper (talk) 07:33, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

This is a source for the top 16 as of May 2020: https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-the-16-most-prolific-assist-to-goal-combinations-in-premier-league-20200518 – PeeJay 01:41, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

7 or 8?

In Manchester United's win against Southampton, should it be judged as 7 individual scorers or 8? 8 individual scorers did indeed net at least one goal during the game for United, however, as one was an own-goal, should that count as "for the same team"? In the meantime, I am going to revert it back to 8 and will let consensus be the judge. MattSucci (talk) 06:13, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Slowest goal

If Shane Long scored the fastest Premier League goal, who scored the slowest? --Jameboy (talk) 21:51, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Do you mean the latest opening goal in a game? – PeeJay 06:19, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Latest goals - haven’t checked which were opening goals but one is bound to be.[1].--Egghead06 (talk) 07:02, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

I meant the latest goal in a game. If Shane Long got the earliest, I was really hoping Craig Short would have the latest. But per source above, it was Dirk Kuyt, so I have added him. --Jameboy (talk) 22:26, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

TV/audience records?

For example, most viewed premier league match 5.7million: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53312221 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djamck (talk • contribs) 10:57, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Top 10 Penalties

Proposal: Same as the free-kicks table but for penalties.

Penalties (career)

Rank	Player	Goals	Taken	Ratio	Games	Playing position
1	Alan Shearer	56	67	0.84	559	Forward
2	Frank Lampard	43	50	0.86	?	Midfielder
3	Steven Gerrard	32	41	0.78	?	Midfielder
4	Matt Le Tisser	25	26	0.96	?	Midfielder

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Djamck (talk • contribs) 13:26, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

References