Talk:Oliver (chimpanzee)

Oliver For Sale?

Oliver certainly is different. Oliver can be further examined for HIV research without any harm.

Oliver may be genetically a "common chimp" but the important thing is that he is BIPEDAL by nature. There used to be a scientist, named Darwin, who took special note of the shape of the bills of finches. In effect those finches had a kind of"cultural" difference, that manifest in the beak shape. Bipedalism, if a trait of a small group of forest chimps, IS A BIG DEAL...if Oliver is one of a breeding group...however small. This guy should be studied and his type sought in the forests of West Afica. He is a kind of KING KONG it terms of uniqueness, even if he is a "common chimpanzee" in terms of gross DNA studies.Nativeborncal 09:00, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

What COULD have been...

As mentioned above, Oliver IS in fact a chimpanzee. As the scientists whom performed the genetic work confirmed, he is NOT a mutant chimpanzee or a new species of primate. Also, he is not a hybrid primate. Perhaps it is this fact that leads me to my "theory" (for lack of a better word). To explain my string of thought, there are a few events that would have to occurr (and, of course can never be proven). Primarily, this scenario requires that Mr. Burger never comes across Oliver in the first place. We have heard from experts on evolution for decades that the one event that probably had the single most important impact on the survival of early man was that, at some point in prehistoric time, a primate stood upright. This allowed him to survey the land for predators above the tall grasses and allowed him to transport items over distances. While there are other advantages to walking on two feet, the ultimate side affect was that as the amount of time and energy spent on basic survival decreased, the time for "thinking" increased. Ultimately this lead to man's ability to create fire and possibly to become "spiritual" as he finally had the time to observe his surroundings and contemplate his role in it. Now, back to the jungle. So here we find a young chimpanzee who walks on upright. Much like our own ancestors, his chances for survival are greatly increased by seeing the world from his most advantageous position. While chimpanzees are inherintly intelligent, Oliver is arguably at or near the top of the "Chimp I.Q." scale. For these reasons I find it highly likely that at least one point he would have mated. I understand that while in captivity he tended to dismiss other chimpanzees in favor of human companionship, I can't help but feel he may have acted differently towards his own kind if he lacked humans to compare his kin with. Here is the second event that would have to come to pass. Unfortunately, I know very little about the world of genetics, so I put this forward simply as a curiousity. The question is: What if whatever it is that caused Oliver to have an "evolved" appearance and more importantly to stand upright would be passed down to his offspring. What if this hidden string of genetic code was dominant (as brown eyes tend to dominate blue eyes)? If this is in fact the case, perhaps in just a few generations there would be dozens of arguably "human-ish" looking primates striding about the jungle. If this were to happen, I wonder how long it would be until they would "realize" that by working together, they could carry large objects over distances (perhaps working together to build primative structures consisting of downed trees). This would in fact further increase their chances of survival. Oliver (at least according to all accounts I was able to find) was able to learn a great deal about his surroundings. I won't go so far as to suggest that this (possible) new species would soon be gathered around campfires. However, I will suggest that as shelter improves and hunting/gathering becomes more efficient, the time for abstract thought increases. Survival of the fittest suggests that the best equipped will live (and thus reproduce). Perhaps over countless decades or centuries there would be a split between these upright striding chimpanzees and their knuckling counterparts. It is the cycle of evolution to which I write. Here is where this line of thought brings me. It pains me to suggest this, but is it not possible that in a single action, in removing a single young chimpanzee from the jungle, man has inadvertently prevented perhaps the single greatest evolutionary jump since our own ancient relatives took those first upright steps? While I understand that this is all theory, and truth be told the only information I have on Oliver is what I have heard/read others say, I wonder about what might have been.

--Bobbyegbert 03:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not the place for original research which includes personal theories. However a quick comment on your claim, I'm not particularly sure why you assume bipedal walking and/or a flatter face is a sign of a high I.Q. among chimpanzees. Also, it sounds to me like your understanding of genetics and evolution might need to improve if you wish to propose radical theories. In any case, assuming that Oliver is one of a kind among chimpanzees as you appear to be suggesting and assuming he does prefer female humans to females chimpanzees as you claim (but which the article mentions is likely bullshit), he would probably have been a genetic dead end so there was no real loss from removing him. Nil Einne 21:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

A full DNA sequencing was never done on him. They ONLY counted chromosomes. So much more could have been learned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.129.229.245 (talk) 03:36, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

On the section of "His Japanese tour"

I have an additional source of information. Mitsuo IWAMOTO, who was a researcher of the Primate Research Institute, Kyoto University, gave an account of Oliver trouble in his Japanese article published in 1976. He reported (without details) that he confirmed that the number of Oliver's chromosomes were 48, and included an image of 24 pairs of Oliver’s chromosomes (Momoki HIRAI took the picture). Why it did not include the details (about methods and results) was because the journal was a popular, not so highbrowed, one. However, this journal attracted only the interest of those who liked primates, so probably most Japanese people did not know the fact that Oliver was perfectly a chimpanzee. I referred here to this article: 岩本 光雄 [IWAMOTO, Mituso] (1976). オリバー君騒動記 [Oribā-kun sōdō-ki; On the visit of Mr. Oliver to Japan]. モンキー [Monkī; Monkey], No. 150 (Vol. 20, No. 3), pp. 30—33.--60.237.211.89 16:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

At that time, in 1976, Momoki HIRAI, who took the image of Oliver’s chromosomes, belonged to National Institute of Radiological Sciences (NIRS). As consistent with this fact, on the other hand, in Japanese wikipedia article of Oliver ja:オリバー君, an examination in NIRS revealed that Oliver had 23 24 pairs of chromosomes, 4 pieces of lumbar vertebra (showed up on the X rays), and the same serum protein pattern as a chimpanzee has, and thus he was a common chimpanzee (though this Japanese wikipedia article did not specify the source on this NIRS’s research).--60.237.211.89 17:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC) (correction: 60.237.211.89 17:32, 1 August 2006 (UTC))

Species

Is Oliver a Common Chimpanzee or a Bonobo? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.29.74.132 (talk) 01:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

If you read the first sentence to the article, you'll have your answer. Aleta 01:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's what happens when you speed read.24.29.74.132 03:11, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

The result of the origin of AIDs?

This just occurred to me. AIDS probably originated sometime before the 1970s, right? And Oliver was born near this time as well. What if Oliver could be the result of the man who had sex with a chimpanzee? I know the scientific results say he's actually a chimpanzee, but what if these results are false or misinterpreted?

They have been independently verified. Oliver is just a funny looking chimpanzee with odd habits he probably picked up being raised as a performing chimp. There is no genetic indication that he is anything but a central african chimp. You might find the article Humanzee interesting since that article has a section on the rumors of human-chimp hybrids that have been whispered about for decades as well as a section on the Ivanoff Experiements which actually sought to cross apes and humans. It's a good article and getting better all the time with work.Lisapollison 05:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

References in this article

This article was written before current Wikipedia Inline Citation guidelines were written. Someone has gone through the article and tagged a an awful lot of info as needing citation when the material the info was taken from IS cited in an older format at the bottom of the article. That is rather unhelpful. The time it took to do that might well have been better spent by simply recreating the cites as inline citations using the refrecnes noted in ther older format. Come one people - help out! Be Bold! I will try and fix these myself but I have dozens of other articles in more dire need of such referencing - some which face deletion if not references properly. Next time you see an older article with merely a list of references, don't just tag every fact you disagree with or would like to see an inline cite on - put the cite in yourself. You can use Google books if need be to get the page number for the cite.LiPollis 17:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Question

Is Oliver still alive, and can I go see him?

Yes, Oliver is alive. But no, you cannot go see him since Primary primates is closed to the public.

video link:> http://www.cryptozoology.com/temp/humanzee.wmv

Those interested in Oliver today should take a look at the most recent photo of him on the Primarily Primates News sections which are cited as links in the article. I added the news that he recently attended a watermelon party and now has a female companion named Raisin living with him. He is being cared for by a nonprofit organization that likely could use the financial support of his many fans. Their website is linked to in the article as is the most recent pic of him. Some folks have been spreading rumors that he died so I called Primarily Primates up today to make sure he's still with us and he is. However, he's an elderly and arthritic blind chimp. I think they are amazing people for caring for him and the other 65 chimps they have plus many other species.LiPollis (talk) 16:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Alive? He has been dead for a while now. 00:07, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure you mean well but I must tell you that his caregivers disagree with you. Oliver is still very much alive but not entirely well and living in an enclosure with one other Chimpanzee at Primarily Primates in Texas. I checked AGAIN last month. I hate having to call them up every time somebody posts that he's dead, and I do realize you posted this 2 years ago but for some reason, an update containing my original reply to you never went through or was edited out. All anyone has to do is subscribe to the Friends of Animals E-Newsletter and you will get the Primarily Primates updates in there since the facility is now under their non-profit umbrella. Heck, sending them a small donation earmarked for Primarily Primates would be a very kind-hearted thing to do if Oliver is an interest of yours. You'd be directly helping chimps just like him who were abandoned to medical research after a brief childhood as entertainment. Oliver's arthritis and other old-age ailments were greatly worsened by his yrears languishing inside a too-small cage at a research facility. Other "Famous" chimps live with him at that facility, just in separate quarters. I just want to assure the curious that staying in touch directly with his caregivers via their newsletter will be the best way to know if something ever happens to Oliver. He is such a famous animal that any news of his death would be reported in a press release by Friends of Animals and on their website. I suspect that news services would even pick up the story due to his past newsworthiness and celebrity.LiPollis (talk)`

Another Question

Has everyone forgotten that mtDNA is inherited from the MOTHER ONLY. The results of this type of DNA test only prove that Oliver's mother was a chimp. We need to examine is nuclear DNA to make definitive declarations about Oliver's heritage. Added by 2007 205.240.77.214 on 20:31, 9 October.

Not addressing the above Q, just stating that I moved this problematic post down here and reformatted it because the way it was posted disrupted this page considerably. Users, please do not add ANY comments above the project tags. Put them at the end of the page. LiPollis (talk) 18:41, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Two Mistakes

First, I believe recent genetic testing showed that Oliver's DNA does match that of regular chimpanzees except in certain places there are important differences, indicating he may be a new kind of subspecies. The testing also showed he does have a NORMAL chromosome count for a chimp. In addition, he did not have a tendency to walk upright, he almost always walked upright! Someone please correct this, I'm not a regular on Wiki and don't want to deal with self-appoitned editorial boards ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.24.238.98 (talk) 05:16, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

what's all this?

"A geneticist from University of Chicago examined Oliver's chromosomes in 1996 and revealed that Oliver had forty-eight, not forty-seven, chromosomes, thus disproving the earlier claim" -- WHAT earlier claim? There is no previous mention of chromosomes in the article. humans have 46 chromosomes. apes have 48; this text seems to suggest that someone once claimed Oliver had 47, but that text, if it ever existed, is now gone. needs cleanup. Bustter (talk) 00:00, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

It's not an error. If Oliver was indeed a human-chimp hybrid, he would have 47 chromosomes (23 from the human parent, 24 from the chimp parent). It's explained better in humanzee.—Kww(talk) 00:05, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

It's been proven that he cannot be a human-chimp hybrid. It's also been proven that his mother was a common chimp. But the article does not mention a source for Oliver being a common chimp himself. 143.176.216.29 (talk) 10:36, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Page has incorrect information under Genetic Testing

Someone has put in the gentic testing portion of the page that "Scientists performed further studies with Oliver, the results of which were published in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology.[2] In the end they concluded beyond a shadow of a doubt that Oliver was only a regular chimpanzee, and that there was never a link between humans and primates. That it was conclusive that Darwinism was merely the theory of a man who later stated that his own theory was illogical and was only academic in nature." The bold sections I outlined show where someone has written in a small sentence that has nothing to do with the gentic testing of Oliver the chimp, nor is it an accurate statement. It appears editing this page is locked, so I cannot remove the incorrect information. By mikeofborg 12/21/2012===

Edit request on 23 December 2012

There appears to be vandalalism at the end of the end of the genetic testing ", and that there was never a link between humans and primates. That it was conclusive that Darwinism was merely the theory of a man who later stated that his own theory was illogical and was only academic in nature." MasterKief (talk) 14:04, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Fixed.—Kww(talk) 15:12, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Image?

It would be nice to have an image or two in this article if some could be found from originql sources. All I could find was an AP photo from the 1970's that wasn't very good, but maybe someone else can find something more.apropriate. Brainmurk Ⓧ (talk) 01:40, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Scientific Bias

The heading to the article states as if it were a fact; "Despite his somewhat unusual appearance and behavior, scientists determined in the 1990s that Oliver was not a human-chimpanzee hybrid.[2]" But that is just ONE point of view. Modern science is not necessarily any more accurate than religion used to be. (Indeed it is flawed in many ways. You only have to study quantum theory to see that). The long term 'owner' of Oliver (and countless other witnesses) noted scores of differences between Oliver and ordinary chimps. THAT should be noted in the introduction too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.9.93 (talk) 19:39, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

External page link

The link towards the bottom of the page goes to https://friendsofanimals.org/news/the-life-and-times-of-oliver-a-chimpanzee/, however the page does not display correctly and it might be better to link to an archived version, here: https://web.archive.org/web/20170724165944/http://www.friendsofanimals.org:80/news/2012/june/life-and-times-oliver-chimpanzee — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:220B:B701:CDEA:BA8E:CA5B:5E8 (talk) 09:53, 3 February 2021 (UTC)