Talk:List of nearest stars and brown dwarfs/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

numbering the list

Suggestion to make this a numbered list. The current bullet list has multiple entries on some lines, so it would need exploding for the numbers to make sense. -- Tarquin 19:04 Oct 15, 2002 (UTC)

1. Sun - 8 light minutes from Earth
2. Alpha Centauri Star System - Proxima Centauri = 4.22 LY [YH],
3. Alpha Centauri A
4. ... and B, both 4.36 LY [YS].
5. Barnard's Star - 5.96 LY [YH].
6. Wolf 359 - 7.78 LY [Y].
7. Lalande 21185 - 8.29 LY [YH]

Makes sense, since the ordering is actually significant. I'll get right on that. Bryan

There. I did some fancy nested-list stuff with binary stars, since I figured that it would be misleading to explicitly number one or the other as being nearer; using a bulleted sub-list seemed the only fair solution to me. Proxima centauri is an exception, but that's okay because there's still some question about whether it's a member of the alpha centauri star system anyway. It's still not perfect, since the main numbered list counts star systems rather than stars, but it's easy enough to change if need be. Bryan

Cool -- Tarquin

Should the current numbering not be for an article called list of nearest star systems? -- I am Jack's username, 2003-04-01t01:10z

SO25300.5+165258

According to [1] SO25300.5+165258 may be about 7.8 ly from Sol. It also calls it a "star that may be the third closest to the Sun", but from my reckoning it would be the 5th closest system, and 7th closest star to Sol. -- Jeandré, 2003-05-27t21:07z

color table

What do folks think of color coding this table? e.g. Displaying the table cells of stars not visible to the naked eye in grey, displaying spectral class in an appropriate color? I'm going to give this a try, but feel free to revert it if seems too cheesy... FelineAvenger 02:20, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Looks nice. Question - Do we want to add Teegarden's star to the list? CJewell (talk) 14:30, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Teegarden's star is already on the list FelineAvenger 08:05, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The colours look nice but, unfortunately, they're incorrect. The F, G, K, and M representations are all far too red. In reality, the Sun is purely white. Procyon would even be 'more' white! I know, I know, 99% of texts describe F stars as yellow-white, Gs as yellow, Ks as orange, and so on, but it's just not right. Proof? Consider an ordinary incandescent light bulb filament (which radiates at a temperature far less than that of an M-class star) pouring out yellowish-white light. Or look at cloud tops on a brilliantly sunny day--they reflect pure white light, not yellow so often advertised! Suggested reading (this is a HIGHLY interesting site): http://www.vendian.org/mncharity/dir3/starcolor/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.20 (talk) 20:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

DENIS 1048-3956

DENIS 1048-3956 13.2 ± 0.1 light-years away from Sun.

Preliminary results

A few stars such as Teegarden's star have only preliminary parallax results and it will be a while before their actual distance is nailed down more precisely. Should such stars have their own table, or should they be marked to indicate the results are preliminary? — RJH 19:17, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

My vote is to include them in the table at their "best guess" location, and mark them as preliminary. FelineAvenger 02:56, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Done. Thanks. — RJH 18:22, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Maximum distance?

How far out should this table be extended? Something of a convention among tables of nearest stars has been to go out to 5 parsecs, which works out fairly nicely to just under 16 light years. Will that work for everybody? — RJH 18:42, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Okay, the table pushed out to 5 parsecs and a comment was added to introduction. It can always be changed later if this is disagreable. — RJH 18:21, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Add Magnitude of stars as seen from earth

In this table the value of magnitude at which the star appears on the terestrial sky may not be forgotten! I provided for this important value a column! Please add the values!

Add Year of Equinox

At the column with right ascension and declination the year of equinox must be added!

Agreed; I'm not sure which of the references was used for the data, or even whether the same epoch is used throughout the table. Ardric47 21:25, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Why is it 5 parsec

From where did you get the definition of a near star? Why is it 5 parsecs? I would like to add a citation right next to the definition to clarify this question. Thank you. CG 08:36, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Surely there are only two ways to do this: list of stars within x parsecs; or list of y nearest stars? Why 5? Well, why not? Would 6, 7, 10... be any better? -- ALoan (Talk) 22:04, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

It's an arbitrary value, but consider:

• The number of stars in the list will increase as the cube of the distance. So a list of nearby stars out to 10 parsecs would be about eight times as long. The current list already has over 60 stars. The list would be pushing the limit of what's a disciminate list.
• The accuracy of the parallax value decrease with distance. So it's more difficult to say that a star lies within a certain number of parsecs.
• Faint stars are more difficult to locate the further away you go. The further out you push the limit, the less definitive the list becomes.

You could, I suppose, use the RECONS approach of listing the nearest 100 stars. But that in effect would push you out somewhere between 5 and 6 parsecs. In addition that list changes every time a new nearby star is found. So 5 seemed to me to be a nice round number. Do you have a good counter-argument as to why it should be some other value? Thanks. — RJH (talk) 19:00, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

(The following moved by Azriphael 03:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC) from what was once its own section, below)

Shouldn't this list be the "100 nearest stars" instead of stars within 5 parsecs? I would think that to the average layman that would be a better figure to use. 132.205.44.128 04:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Or perhaps the table can be split with whitespace, with stars within 5 parsecs in table one, and stars needed to get to 100 in table two (and reverse it when stars within 5 pc exceed 100) 132.205.44.128 04:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I have no strong preference for a list bounded by number of entries versus a list bounded by mean distance to the objects it enumerates, but I am not particularly enthusiastic about the concept of using both systems. I think that selecting one or the other (and being clear about which at the top of the page) is the less confusing option.Azriphael 03:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

New Entries

I would like to add SCR 1845-6357 A and B, but I'm not sure which source(s) to use. Ardric47 23:04, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

What sources do you have? Best would be a published paper. Awolf002 00:02, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

It is lited in a source that appears to be used for the entire page, [2], and is also mentioned in [3] and [4]. I have a feeling that SCR 1845-6357 might not be the full official name, because SIMBAD says that it is an incorrectly written identifier. Ardric47 00:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The star's name seems to be SCR 1845 and its discovery is referenced as published by Hambly, N.C., Henry, T.J., Subasavage, J.P., Brown, M.A., & Jao, W-C. in 2004, AJ, 128, 437. Would that agree with what you know? Awolf002 01:05, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Wait. This seems to be most up-to-date source. I would add a range of distance estimates to the table, though. Things are still 'fuzzy' ;-) Awolf002 01:16, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Seeing as how SCR 1845-6357 now harbours the 3rd-nearest known brown dwarf to the Sun - Newly Discovered Failed Star Added to Stellar Neighborhood, looks like it needs to be in there... Tarquin Binary 09:53, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

SCR 1845-6357 (which does seem to be the name used in literature) has been found to be closer than previously thought: [5]... 3.5±0.3 parsec = 11.4±1.0 lightyears. I wouldn't change this unless RECONS does, though. User:hpa 24 March 2006

Table versus Linked Detail Pages

This table is really great. It has been very helpful to me. I am amazed how well you keep it updated. Great Job! Regarding the stellar class I noticed a few differences between this table and what is under the tables on the linked detail pages (for each individual star system). I do not know which needs to be updated accordingly (either this table or the detail pages, depending on which data elements are more accurate). You may determine that they are correct on this table and incorrect on the detail pages. If so, tell me if I should note the issues on their applicable detail pages instead of here.

Regardless, the Stellar Class differences that I noticed are as follows (I list the Table's data first and the associated Detail Page's data second ...

1) Proxima Centauri -- M5.5Ve (table), M5.5V (Proxima's detail page), M5 (Proxima's data under the Alpha Centauri detail page).

2) Alpha Centauri B -- K1V (table), K0V (Alpha Centauri detail page -- last year the table had K0V but has since been updated, so maybe the detail page is outdated?

3) Barnard's Star -- M4.0Ve (table), M4.0V (detail page).

4) Luyten 726-8 -- the table has L 726-8 B listed before L 726-8 A (with M5.5Ve for B, and M5.0Ve for A). The detail page has the data reversed (M5.5V for A, and M6.0V for B). In addition, the detail page omits the e in the Ve, and lists the e without the V in the text. The flipped data is not only regarding the Stellar Class. The magnitude is reversed between the table and the detail page as well (possibly the other elements too).

5) Ross 154 -- the table has Ve, the detail page only has V.

6) Ross 248 -- same thing (Ve versus V).

7) Lacaille 9352 -- M1.5Ve (table), M0.5V (detail page -- the Morgan-Keenan number is different as well as the Yerkes V instead of the Ve designation).

8) Ross 128 -- Vn (table), V (detail page omits the n).

9) EZ Aquarii A -- Ve versus V.

10) Procyon A -- the table has the numerals switched as V-IV, and the detail page has them as IV-V.

11) DX Cancri -- Ve versus V.

12) Luyten's Star -- Vn versus V.

13) SC 1845-6357 -- M8.5V versus M8.5 (the detail page does not reflect the V).

14) Kapteyn's Star -- M1.5V (table), sdM1V (detail page -- with the sd included and without the .5).

15) Lacaille 8760 -- M0.0V versus M2Ve (the M2Ve value on the detail page may be outdated because the M2Ve data was in the table last year but has since been updated to the M0.0V value).

16) Kruger 60 B -- V versus Ve (this time, however, the table is missing the e, and the detail page has the e).

17) Ross 614 (LHS 1849) -- M4.5V (table), M4.5VJ (detail page has VJ instead of V).

18) Ross 614 (GI 234 B) -- M5.5V (table), but the detail page omits the Spectral Class. This is just an observation, not a discrepancy.

19) Van Maanen's Star -- DZ7 (table), WDZ7 (detail page). WD may indicate a super nova?

20) G1 1 -- M3.0V (table) versus M1.5V (detail page).

21) Wolf 424 A -- Ve (table) versus V (detail page).

22) Wolf 424 B -- M7Ve (table), M7 (detail page).

23) LHS 288 (Luyten 143-23) -- should the name be written this way? Or should it be Luyten 143-23 (LHS 288) to be consistent with the other name layouts? Ignore this line item if I am incorrect in my assumption (that Luyten 143-23 is the stars given name instead of a designator).

24) GJ 832 -- M3.0V (table) versus M1.5 (detail page).

Tesseract501 3 June 2006

Sources often disagree (sometimes significantly) about spectral types. For some of them, the individual article was originally created with all data from one source. That source was (and still is) noted, but sometimes people update the info but don't indicate the new source. I agree that this needs more discussion to determine which sources have been used and which should be used. Ardric47 07:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

For a definitive source on star data I usually look it up in SIMBAD. It seems to be reasonably up to date, but YMMV. — RJH (talk) 19:03, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

RECONS January 2006 differences from Page

The page author referenced the link to RECONS. I noticed what may be differences between RECONS January 2006 data and this page. The page data is probably compiled from numerous sources and based on values that may be best suited for the page … but here are the differences that I noticed (just in case):

1.) The brown-dwarf stars of the Epsilon Indi system Epsilon Indi Ba and Bb (also know as Epsilon Indi B and C, and GJ 845 B and C) were indicated in RECONS as of January 2006. If I am interpreting the January 2006 RECONS data correctly, Epsilon Indi Ba (B) is a class T1.0 and Epsilon Indi Bb (C) is a class T6.0. This Wikipedia page does not reference them. It may be that more up-to-date data ruled them out? Or maybe brown dwarves (Spectral Class of T) not listed on this page because of their properties?

2.) The RECONS data appears to place Teegardens Star (SO 0253-1652) just after Luyten’s Star. This position differs form this Wikipedia page. The RECONS entry flags the entry as preliminary, and the margin of error on Parallax margin-for-error puts the position in question. So the postion reflected may be OK, especially if the page may have the position based on the best of multiple variables beyond RECONS alone. Note: the RECONS data indicates a Spectral Class of M7.0 V (instead of 6.5) but you have been pulling together very comprehensive spectral data so your page may have the latest factor.

3.) RECONS shows SCR 1845-6357 as a binary (A and B). The Wikipedia page reflects A, but B (a brown dwarf) is not listed.

4.) DENS 1048-3956 has already been noted above by another individual. RECONS shows DEN 1048-3956 as a potential M8.5 V star, with Parallax of 0.24771 +or- 0.00155. This would place it at a distance greater than the Kruger 60 System but less than the Ross 614 (GJ 234) System. This appears to be a preliminary entry, so this star is still up-in-the-air (haha). So, you may be holding off on entering this until more solid data comes in?

5.) The placement of Luyten 143-23 (LH 288) appears to differs from the January 2006 RECONS info. It may be at a distance greater than the GJ 412 System and closer than the Groombridge 1618 (GJ 380) System. Parallax 0.20590 +or- 0.00293. Again, this appears to be a preliminary RECONS entry as well (so it has uncertainty factors). You may have positioned it due to the margin of error and in consideration of additional and more recent data. Just wanted to mention it just-in-case.

You’ve done a great job with this page. You are pulling data together and putting it all in one place. Thanks for the extra data on the Spectral Classes that I have been unable to find anywhere. E.g., for Ross 614 B and Wolf 424 :Tesseract501 5 June 2006

There is now a July 1, 2006 update on the RECONS 100 nearest page. The newly discovered L dwarf below is on the new list. The exact order of several systems could be re-arranged depending on the errors, so I wonder about the point of what is the exact order. Also, SIPS 1259-4336(11.8 lys.) and SSPM J1549-3544(12.3 lys) were on the list for a more accurate parallax; has anyone heard any more about these 2 stars?Mytg8 16:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Scratch the two stars above, at least as far as belonging to this list. I had a personal correspondence with Dr. Todd Henry of RECONS and he stated that SIPS 1259 had a preliminary parallax indicating a distance of 8.2 parsecs and SSPM J1549 was mis-classified: it's a subdwarf, not a white dwarf and therefore was not a nearby object.Mytg8 04:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

New L Dwarf at 4.97 pc

Designated DEN 0255-477. See NOAO press release [6]: "The discovery by a team led by Edgardo Costa and Rene Mendez of the Universidad de Chile in Santiago will be published in the September 2006 issue of the Astronomical Journal."

"How long would it take for a rocket to fly to the nearest star?"

This newly added section is really far away from the scope of this article. And it also skirts WP:NOR since it has no attribution and does its calculation in the text itself. I will delete it, if nobody can explain to me what we need this for, here. Awolf002 01:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Removed it. We can add it back if somebody cares. Awolf002 23:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, it was put back, in a different form. This statement needs attribution! In its current wording it is not verifiable. Awolf002 01:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

The section has currently been added as:

However if the spaceship could only travel at the fastest speed ever actually achieved (by the Helios probes of 252,792 km/h), it would take about 18'000 years to reach the nearest star Proxima Centauri at a distance of 4.22 light years.

This is an incredibly simplistic analysis, as clearly any interstellar craft would keep accelerating for years, so judging by maximum speeds attained within the solar system makes no sense. User:Watercolour won't seem to allow this to be removed, however. Kundor 00:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Kundor, especially since there is still no attribution that this a valid way of calculating the travel time. Awolf002 01:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Parenthetical number in distance column ?

What is the number in parentheses in the distance column? For Sol, it is apparently 8 light minutes, 19 light seconds, although the format is a bit confusing. What about the other stars? FelineAvenger 18:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe these numbers are 'uncertainty values', since this is one of the standard methods to quote them. The other would by a 'plus-minus' sign in front of that value. Awolf002 20:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Bet you find this Interesting?

I had a thought the other day. And tried to find this answer to this on Wikipedia and other sources. But as a complete layman became very confused, parsecs/light years ect. This is my thought, we (the human race) have been sending out RF signals of a reasonable strength since 1922, please correct me on this if I have this wrong. Based on this knowledge, I wondered how far and how many star like suns (G class stars) have these RF signals reached by this year, 2007 ? You know where I'm going with this thought, and yes maybe life is not restricted to G class stars, or maybe it is, or maybe only to G2V, and we all known G2V's are capable! Then there's the age of these stars, and then the metallic make up as well. I wish someone with the right knowledge would draw up a list of theses stars. And using the above knowledge. We could then break the list up into the most lightly to the most unlikely places that intelligent life may exist. And that have also received RF signals from us. I believe this list would be helpful to SETI, to reduce their listing down to size, so they can focus on a more broader range of RF signals. As I also believe the RF's they are searching are far too narrow, and I feel a lot of time and money is going to waist at SETI. If anyone can help me with this please do, maybe I've got this wrong as I'm just a layman. But in any case, post me something, its bugging me! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.10.204.128 (talk) 23:46, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

I don't know exactly how many, but I can tell you that our EM signals would thus fill a sphere with a radius of 85 lightyears, which encapsulates a hell of a lot of stars. — Jack · talk · 17:07, Thursday, 26 April 2007

Temperature Data

Is there an easy way to add temperature data to this table?

I have added a temperature column. Someone else will need to fill in the numbers: I don't have time just now. Michaelbusch 17:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Expand list?

Can I ask, why does this list only include 49 stars? I came here to find out the rank of star Gliese 581, which is 20.5 ly away, but the list is way too limited for that. — Jack · talk · 17:09, Thursday, 26 April 2007

Please, read the first sentence that says "...ordered by increasing distance out to a maximum of 5 parsecs...". There needs to be a distance limit, and this one seems just fine. Awolf002 18:39, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Proper motion

It would interesting if someone knowledgeable could add a Proper motion column to the table. --Occultations 01:17, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Radial velocity, derived from red shift data, would be interesting too.

Proxima whatever

It appears that an anonymous individual has been adding invented names to some of the star articles. Examples include Proxima Ophiuchi (Barnard's star), Proxima Ursae Majoris (Lalande 21185) and Proxima Ceti A/B (Luyten 726-8). As far as I know these have no historical basis. But they do appear on the following unsigned web site: http://closeststars.com/ . It almost looks as if somebody has an agenda to promote these apparent astronomical neologisms... — RJH (talk)

I've reverted all the ones up to 2007-07-17t20:22:51z by going thru Special:Contributions/HunterTruth. -- Jeandré, 2007-08-22t19:05z

Parantheses?

In the "Distance from Earth" column, I don't understand what the numbers in parantheses are. Are they digits of uncertainty? I think it should be made more clear, because the current heading Distance from Earth (ly) implies (at least to me) that the numbers in parantheses are the distance in light-years, while the numbers outside are some other form of measurement, presumably parsecs, which is obviously wrong. Sloverlord 17:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

They could also be there to show the less certain digits. (I.e. smaller than the margin of error). But the fact that they are not explained makes them less than useful, or so it seems. Probably it would be better to go back to SIMBAD and get the value with an actual margin of error. — RJH (talk) 20:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Ross 780

Ross 780 redirects to Gliese 876, maybe the name in this table should be changed to the more common name.--Roentgenium111 (talk) 21:55, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Done.--Roentgenium111 (talk) 16:32, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

New Hipparcos data

There's been a recent reduction of the Hipparcos data http://www.springer.com/astronomy/book/978-1-4020-6341-1 Anyone have access and make the changes to this list, if any?Mytg8 (talk) 14:47, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The Hipparcos revised catalogue is at http://cdsarc.u-strasbg.fr/viz-bin/VizieR?-meta.foot&-source=I/311 Mytg8 (talk) 15:28, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Error Notation (16)

4.2421(16)

What are the units of (16) is that 16% ? I don't understand the error notation fully; can someone please explain?

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.140.138 (talk) 02:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

4.2421(16) = 4.2421 ± 0.0016, 0.768 87(0 29) = 0.76887 ± 0.00029, etc. Spacepotato (talk) 03:18, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Order of Columns

Seeing as this list is ordered by the distance from Earth, wouldn't it make more sense to put the distance column next to the designation column? VirtualDave (talk) 23:52, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

A Centauri

I was looking for Alpha Centauri but instead discovered the article on A Centauri, a star 4.63 ly away. Why isn't it included in the list? Potatoswatter (talk) 20:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

It's 463 ly away, a confused anon added the dot. That article is now hatnoted so this won't happen again. Potatoswatter (talk) 06:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction

According to sources in Sun article the absolute magnitude of Sun is +4.83 but according to the main article source the absolute magnitude is +4.85. SkyBon^{Talk\Contributions} 17:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Consistency of Greek letter usage

I'm not going to make any edits myself, as I don't have any expertise with this nomenclature, but are the inconsistencies in Greek letter usage accidental, or by convention? For the Alpha Centauri system, "Alpha" is spelled out in the system name, while the actual Greek letter "α" is used for the stars. But for the Epsilon Indi system, "Epsilon" is spelled out everywhere. Should "ε" be used for the stars, as it is in the diagram? Should "Alpha" be spelled out in the alternate names of the Sirius and Procyon systems?NoJoy (talk) 14:25, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Either way would be ok to me, though for a layman, it might be better to spell it out. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 14:08, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Workpage

What is the purpose of the workpage linked in the headers at the top of the page? The list in the article seems sufficiently complete. Astronaut (talk) 05:27, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Stuff that might be added. For instance, the current list does not list the nearest star of any particular type, only all the stars closer than 5 parsecs. So it lists no neutron stars, no microquasars, no hypergiants. A second table containing a list of nearest star by type could be added. In any case, it's a scratchpad at the moment. Historical background to the nearest star could also exist. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 08:44, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Brown dwarf UGPS J072227.51-054031.2

Brown dwarf UGPSJ0722-05 recently discovered at 9.5 light years

http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.0317 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.191.213.8 (talk) 20:09, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Recently updated to 4.1 parsecs (13 ly). [7] Icalanise (talk) 19:47, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Even with this higher distance, it should be added to the list, shouldn't it?--Roentgenium111 (talk) 14:28, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well... my concern there is that this is a list of "stars". There could be a lot of currently undetected brown dwarfs drifting nearby and eventually they may end up overwhelming the list. But perhaps they can be forked off at a later date.—RJH (talk) 15:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I see. Personally, I would consider brown dwarfs as stars, but this is of course a question of definition. As long as they do not overwhelm this list, I would include brown dwarfs, maybe without ordinal number and/or with a different background colour (e.g. brown ;-)) to distinguish them from hydrogen-burning stars. BTW, the list already contains a brown dwarf (DEN 1048-3956) on position 28. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 18:15, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

They are defined on WP as sub-stellar objects, for whatever that's worth, it would seem to argue for leaving them off. Dlabtot (talk) 18:59, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, WP is not clear on this as it also defines a Star as follows: "A star is a massive, luminous ball of plasma held together by gravity." This definition would include brown dwarfs as long as they still emit light. Anyway, indepedent of the question whether brown dwarfs are stars, I find it sensible to include them in this list at least for "comparison reasons" as long as they do not overwhelm the list, because then we have a list of all large gravitationally-unbound space objects in Sun's vicinity. (I'd rather change the article's title than exclude two brown dwarfs from a list of 50 stars.) --Roentgenium111 (talk) 15:40, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the definition is a little fuzzy because of the need to incorporate white dwarfs. Plus brown dwarfs can undergo some fusion during their lives. A more accurate definition of stars might have to say something about their undergoing fusion of protium at some point during their lifespan. But that might leave out exotic stars.—RJH (talk) 18:24, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I've now added the new brown dwarf and coloured all brown dwarfs brown - turns out there were already six (!) in the list. What do you think: Should these be included in the numbering of stars and systems or not? Might be better not to give them numbers so as to distinguish them more from "regular" stars.--Roentgenium111 (talk) 20:09, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Including brown dwarfs in this list violates WP:TOPIC. I still think they should be removed.—RJH (talk) 22:28, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. Even if there was consensus that brown dwarfs aren't stars (which apparently there isn't, not even on WP, as pointed out above), brown dwarfs would still be useful on the list just for comparison purposes, unless they overwhelmed the list (which 7 out of ~70 items obviously don't). Rather, I agree with your previous opinion that brown dwarfs "can be forked off at a later date" should they some day overwhelm the list.--Roentgenium111 (talk) 22:43, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Is your assertion that this list is about stars, brown dwarfs are not stars, but still should be considered on topic? Sorry but that doesn't make sense. It would make more sense if the list were renamed to include other objects.—RJH (talk)

No, that's not my assertion, I said that if brown dwarfs weren't stars, they should still remain in the article for comparison purposes. (BTW, WP:TOPIC is not a Wikipedia guideline, only an "essay"!)

But in my opinion, brown dwarfs are stars. But if you have a reliable source saying that they're not, feel free to rename the list. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 21:52, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

First reference I checked: "A brown dwarf is an object that is not a star but which undergoes fusion." [8] There are plenty of other sources. You're welcome to your opinion, but it needs to be supported by facts to be included here. Please show us a significant references that says brown dwarfs are stars.—RJH (talk) 17:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your reference, but the sentences before the one you quote state that this definition is not yet fixed, only "the perhaps best" one proposed. My opinion is supported e.g. by the current headline on [9]: "NASA's Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer, or WISE, has eyed its first cool brown dwarf: a tiny, ultra-cold star floating all alone in space.", or [10]: "WISE will: [..] Find the closest stars to the Sun." (evidently referring to possible brown dwarfs closer than Proxima Centauri). So it seems that at least colloquially, (some) astronomers consider brown dwarfs to be stars. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 18:35, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah, the sentences before appear to talk about objects around a star, rather than the definition of a star. But fair enough. I think they are sometimes termed "failed stars", so it is performing something of a semantics dance to call them stars.—RJH (talk) 19:39, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

The discoverer of this star gives its name as UGPS 0722-05, we should stick to that, rather than UGPS J072227.51-054031.2. The discovery parallax places it in position 29 rather than 27, but you're right in not allocating it a position number yet, because the accuracy on the distance is much worse than for any of the other stars on the list so it's very likely to move up or down the list when more data is collected. Mollwollfumble (talk) 19:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Feel free to rename it, but note that the star's WP article is listed under the full name as well. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 16:20, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Image

Whatever a red dwarf would look like, it wouldn't look blood red like the current "artist's conception". It would be yellowish or orange. Only carbon stars and cool brown dwarfs are anything like red. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 20:42, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes you are right. There was an article in Sky & Telescope many years back about how the stars would appear if the viewer were nearby. It said in effect that the oversaturation of the human eyes by the stellar photons would tend to make the stellar disk look white, with possibly a tinge of color (depending on the star's class). To me it's a lot like the HSL color space with a high lightness value.

However, it may be the color of the star if it were viewed through a sufficiently strong optical filter. Kind of equivalent to how the Sun appears yellow in filtered images.—RJH (talk) 18:32, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Temperature column

Could somebody please clarify why a temperature column was included in this table? It seems an unnecessary level of detail.—RJH (talk) 19:49, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed it. Thanks.—RJH (talk) 15:04, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Distances

I noticed the distances are quoted from the Hipparcos and GCTP catalogs. RECONS combines these with other sources--as well as their own results--to lessen the errors. Shouldn't RECONS figures be used instead? Chasrob (talk) 17:56, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

My personal preference is to use the primary source for the data, rather than a secondary source like RECONS. But I don't think it would hurt to consider just using the RECONS data. They seem like a reliable source. Shrug.—RJH (talk) 19:32, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Future and past

At the moment, Vadim V. Bobylev: Searching for Stars Closely Encountering with the Solar System, 10 March 2010 is the only source quoted for the second list of closest approaches in future and past. The data of that second list are in contradiction to this only quoted source. In the article on Gliese 710, no reference was given for the closest future approach of the star, at all, and the 1.1 lightyears spoken of there were not only in contradiction to the 1.01 ly spoken of in this article on nearest stars, but also to some data mentioned in an internet discussion linked to on the article`s discussion page. I have replaced the data for the closest approach of Gliese 710, in the article on the star, therefore, and only wasn`t able to do so in this article on nearest stars, as well, because the list is not accessible in the page`s source code.Hans Dunkelberg (talk) 21:34, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

See my comment at Talk:Gliese_710#In_Reply_To_Recent_Edits. Spacepotato (talk) 03:30, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I have read Your comment there. Thank You for the explanation - I had, simply, overlooked the exact nature of the table I took the 0.21 pc value from, in the Bobylev paper. It could still be interesting why there was spoken of 1.1 light years in the Gliese 710 article and of 1.01 light years in the list of nearest stars, but as all these are just median values, that`s, of course, not so terribly interesting any more. --Hans Dunkelberg (talk) 18:01, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

According to http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?letter=.&classic=YES&bibcode=1994QJRAS..35....1M&page=&type=SCREEN_VIEW&data_type=PDF_LOW&send=GET&filetype=.pdf, the closest star to our solar system prior to Proxima Centauri was theoretically Gliese 65 (aka Luyten 726-8, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UV_Ceti) approximately 32000 years ago (see heading "4.1 The beginning of Proxima's reign"). The theory is based on red-shift stars from the Gliese catalog in the galactic neighborhood using the radial motion formula proposed at the beginning of the article. Unfortunately, the calculations that provided this conclusion and the moment in time and distance at which Gliese 65 was closest are not provided.User:forestwhite —Preceding undated comment added 13:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC).

It's perhaps odd then that subsequent papers of this nature don't include GJ 65 in their list of closest approaching stars.—RJH (talk) 15:55, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Like Bobylev, many subsequent papers have used Hipparcos data, which automatically excludes GJ 65 (as well as Ross 248 and Wolf 359.) Spacepotato (talk) 02:47, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Spectral Types

Beware spectral types. The spectral type of Tau Ceti is given as G8Vp (the 'p' stands for 'peculiar') with reference [2]. But looking up reference [2] gives it as G8.5V, which is doubly different. Mollwollfumble (talk) 19:52, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Mmm, it's possible the classification may have been changed in the source. SIMBAD lists it as G8.5V.—RJH (talk) 19:58, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Be worth checking other ones as well. The list gives Epsilon Indi A as K5Ve where RECONS (ref 2) gives it as K4.0V. I'll have a look through the whole list at some later time, do you want me to change those that I find? Should SIMBAD be taken as the authoritative value? Perhaps not, SIMBAD gives "K5V C" and only gives one companion when we know that Epsilon Indi B was recently shown to be a double (press announcement January 1, 2004)Mollwollfumble (talk) 09:38, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes the data is subject to change over time. But, as with many astronomical parameters, there can be multiple sources of data, some of which may be conflicting. In the case of Tau Ceti, for example, there are 31 entries for spectral class in the measurements section (in 'mk') of SIMBAD.

We have been using SIMBAD as an authoritative source for some data in astronomy articles. I usually just go with the listed values in the basic data section of SIMBAD and cherry-pick from the measurements section.—RJH (talk) 16:38, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Not sortable

I propose the "sortable" should be taken off the main table as it seriously doesn't work (because of the multi-row boxes).--Keith Edkins ( Talk ) 19:06, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Roentgenium111 (talk) 20:10, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Additional Refrences Column

No refrences for data regarding no. of planets around star has been cited. It would be helpfull to see where this information came from. SPACEMANBEN (talk) 14:28, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

True, although typically the individual star articles are well referenced for that information. On a related topic, I think it would help the layout if the RECONS references were moved to the column headers and only the exceptions were cited. Right now the RECONS entry in the citation list is a mess of unhelpful back links. Regards, RJH (talk) 21:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

WISE J0254+0223 and WISE J1741+2553

• Two new brown dwarf Solar neighbours discovered (14 July 2011)
• Two very nearby (d ~ 5 pc) ultracool brown dwarfs detected by their large proper motions from WISE, 2MASS, and SDSS data (arXiv:1105.4059 : 4 Jul 2011)

-- Kheider (talk) 09:57, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

My understanding is that the number of brown dwarfs are expected to exceed the number of stars. At some point this article will become "List of nearest brown dwarfs (plus a few stars)". ;-) Regards, RJH (talk) 14:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Should this happen, I'd be all for splitting them off. But with WISE only having discovered 3 brown dwarfs so far (though it was supposed to find all brown dwarfs in Sun's neighbourhood), it seems to me that the expected number of brown dwarfs needs to be downgraded substantially, so that this may never happen... --Roentgenium111 (talk) 16:21, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• The First Hundred Brown Dwarfs Discovered by the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE), contains specific chapters for certain selected objects, such as WISEPA J154151.66−225025.2 aka WISE 1541-2250.

Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 07:19, 6 September 2011 (UTC)